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Is Snowden starting to go too far with Chinese / International disclosures?

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posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


If snowden giving state secrets to china would hurt the US, are you saying that china would attack the US?
Therefore, it would be bad for China to know that the US was spying on them, even though they know the US does spy on them? And that the Us already knows that china spies on them?

This is all really silly rhetorical crap, isn't it?

No real need for a thread anyhow.




posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Happy1
 


So, basically ... You figure national security is nonsense and a silly thing from the past that no one needs? I'm wanting to be sure I get your meaning here because it's the sort of message I just brain freeze on for the pure off beat and wild nature of the apparent suggestion.

You DO realize that China, the Russian Federation and many other run Security Services every bit the equal or superior to the NSA and CIA....correct? We aren't the best at this game or the most effective. The most obnoxious perhaps, but not the best.

Some of the talk here would make it sound like the US is the only nation in the world that HAS a CIA or spies on other nations and people. It makes me wonder where Deny Ignorance went to as a motto. In some ways, oceans of it are flowing on this topic especially.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Were Snowden a spy for a foreign power surely he would, if discovered, simply have shipped out to safety and we probably would never have known about the information he released.

I expected Obama and people like Pelosi to squeal but I don't care that they or members of my own government squeal treason, its only because their treasonous acts against their own public have been found out. What was it Obama said, if the people don't trust him!!!

Well now he knows why and I notice that its somewhat quiet here about GCHQ our media is purely a governmental pup.



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by introV

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by bjarneorn
You're wrong.


I agree. It's a war China started. They have been hacking western nations for military secrets for a long time. Why do the research and spend the money when you can steal it? What China has done justifies a fullscale military invasion, but at the very least we should be carrying out very strong cyberespionage to defend outselves. Snowden just made that more difficult.


Correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't our government/military run on SIPRNet? A network separate from the actual internet? How did they hack our military secrets on SIPRNet? According to the link (from CNN lol) you posted, hackers found ways to hack or otherwise trick Contractors. If you think we have right to do fullscale military invasion because we have -extremely- flawed protocols and way too many loose ends if this information exists off of SIPRNet, then I am extremely grateful you are not in a position of power.

So if you don't lock your door and someone comes in and steals everything you own they did not do anything wrong and you should have no recourse? The lock is not what makes it wrong to break in and steal, the lock is there because people will try. Good protocols is not what makes hacking US secrets wrong, the protocols are there because people will try. Your logic is so faulty it's laughable.


IMO, the people who have put this information on computers connected to regular internet should be prosecuted, NOT a fullscale invasion into China. Are you insane? Do you understand how many US businesses rely on China?

So because you have business dealings with your neighbor it's ok for him to steal your car?


Incase you're not understanding let me explain to you the difference. It's akin to finding a gold bar outside of a vault. You will take it, there's no repercussions. The person at loss will strengthen their security, it's their fault for letting the gold out of the vault (in a sea of hackers). If they broke into the vault and stole the gold bar, then there is repercussions.

Actually that's a crime and you will do jail time.


Also, please tell me how they started it. Give exact dates, I'm sure this goes back way beyond the internet, so please.. let me know when you figure it out

What military platforms do the Chinese possess that would enhance US technological knowledge by stealing?


I on the otherhand understand the value of "hacks" like this. We "patch our holes", which is actually strengthening our defense. In other words, we will not allow this information to exist off of SIPRNet anymore. And don't be scared if China got some secrets, our technology (military tech) will still be upgraded with time anyway.

So if we have missile defenses and someone launches missile attacks against us and some get through we should view it as a learning opportunity and do nothing about it?

Your logic on every single point is so faulty it doesn't withstand the briefest of scrutiny.


You're clearly not understanding me. Let me explain this again to you..

US government/military has it's own network/internet. In no way is this network connected to normal network. Okay. Regulars in China, or even the USA, can not access this network. I hope you're following me here.

So you might ask.. again.. how did these hackers in China get these military secrets? Again, it's even stated in the link you posted... Military contractors, who had information, files, e-mails, basically a hacker's treasure trove, was stolen.. from a contractors computer... connected to the same Internet you and I use.

Do you understand this at all? We, very stupidly, let Contractors, connect to regular internet and get hacked. This is a flawed protocol. This is a loose end. This is like a bank leaving their gold bars out on the street. Do you understand my metaphor or are you going to completely miss the point? Use your brain for a couple minutes.

This is how Bradley Manning stole information. He was in the military. Accessed SIPRNet, and stole information. Hackers in China simply cannot hack into SIPRNet. They hacked into contractors. We slipped up. We patched the holes. If you fully read the articles it even stated they didn't get secrets in their entirety, such as the AEGIS system. They simply got parts of it, which they could reverse engineer to -try- to recreate our systems. It's still extremely far off from a complete schematic. Because of this minor slip-up, we have tightened the screws. They might have gotten the schematic for the window pane of an F-18... but that's enough of a wake up call that we can make sure all of our vital systems/networks are completely inaccessible. Such as dams, nuclear power plants, etc.

If Chinese got into SIPRNet, then YES, your request for invasion would be completely understandable and it would be full on war.

I seriously hope you understand all of this.
edit on 25-6-2013 by introV because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-6-2013 by introV because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2013 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I'm sorry for that post - I aplogize - I'm frustrated at the whole mess and not knowing who our corrupt gov't is conspiring with, but I'm sure they are conspiring against the US citizens.

Please read the thread about Tom Donilon and his family.

It would seem to me that snowden - if he did go to Russia - is either a co-conspirator with the corrupt gov't, or he is being renditioned to russia - as russia and the obozo administration is bent on destroying the US.

There's some pretty illuminating info in that thread - "Who is the Donilon family and why do they have so much influence on washington"

ANd - I very much appreciate your opinion, and always have.



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