Fast track to fascism under Bush!

Originally posted by FourOceans

Hey Franki - I think you're on a worthy track here. ...You might want to research Hitler's rise to power and compare with Bush... The similarities are downright eery. IE., Both started out without a majority; both were catapulted into 'new' positions quickly with corporate support; both implemented astounding agendas immediately, to benefit corporate power; both mined national fervor to support a corporate agenda....

Yea okay.. when do you expect Bush try and erradicate everyone but blue-eyed blond-haired white men? The basic fact is that their ideologies are COMPLETELY different. Hitler wanted genocide, Bush is just a puppet.

...I actually downloaded Mein Kampf and read the sucker. (Well not all of it but enough) ...Hitler was pushing the same Eugenics that were hot in the US - and which now are renamed and repackaged as "genetics" and pushed by Bush. ...Hitler did have a hate on for Jews, but that was just an aside - he euthanized the disabled and the poor too. And he let rich Jews buy their way out. ...

I say they're both puppets - and serve the same masters. The real powers behind Hitler's throne never went away, and now they're baaaack. Alas, the victory was only a carefully manufactured illusion. The powers banked profits from funding the Germans AND the British AND the Japanese AND the USA to fight against each other in WWII. The same bank, the Bank of International Settlements, and the same families who put Hitler in power and then Bush....

...and now it looks like they're negotiating the CCM - super-sized NAFTA.


sigh.



.

Originally posted by FourOceans
With power comes corruption

exactly, which is why power, at least concentrated power, must be done away with. The government must become the ENTIRE citizenry. This is the basic premise of socialism. That the people run their own affairs, through soviets (workers councils) and true democracy.

I remember in 2000 laughing at people who were saying, Clinton was going to cancel the election with martial law and install a communist regime. Well that did'nt happen, they mis-took actions to stop terrorist from taking planes and smuggling in or producing explosives. No Bush grabbed the wheel and yanked it hard right and set us on a corporate welfare get rich regime that seems more and more facists.
Bill Clinton has already released documents from his presidency, baby Bush and klan have blocked the release of their records in office, the Secret Presidency.
They are changing their ethics laws to protect people like Tom Delay.
You have to sign into loyalty to the King in order to work in any high position.

Guns, I don't think our H&Ks, S&Ws, Rugars etc are any match to what the people that show up in dark vans are carring. Most of our homes are sheathed with wood slats, brick veneer or styrofoam-stucco which are no match for their amour-piercing bulluts that would come right though those walls and mow us down in our beds long before we could pop the 9mil into the chamber.

2006 will come fast, weve got to elect some level headed folks into those mid-terms. Now's the time to learn as much about potential candidates and make decisions about who will lead this country back on track.

Well said there general... well said.

True democracy exists when all people are involved.. not an elite few.

exactly, which is why power, at least concentrated power, must be done away with. The government must become the ENTIRE citizenry. This is the basic premise of socialism. That the people run their own affairs, through soviets (workers councils) and true democracy.

I thought America was a democractic socialist country? Nonetheless, I agree, representative deMOCKracy has failed to provide productive results, though, here in Canada, I could say otherwise: we do have a more pluralist goverment which is concerned with altruism and not egoism.

Hey, if that never works, there is always Anarcho-Capitalism.

lol

Deep

Welcome aboard Franki, sounds like we will do well like the avatar reminds of "WHO" can't seem to remember

Americans need to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot loves his land and his people. A nationalist loves his government. The patriot voluntarily does what is necessary to protect his land and his people. A nationalist blindly obeys his government.
-- Charley Reese

I love bush, I would like to give him a hot shot, ex-alcoholics and coke heads really like those things, so I have read

Originally posted by DrHoracid
We are at war......We were attacked. I am angry we are not turning the middle east into glass. Bush is TOO kind and Liberal.

Iraq DID NOT attack us, they had NO part in the attack on 911,........I wish others would finally understand that,......... Iraq-----> Not Involved---> with 911 attack !!!

Bush,......... KIND and Liberal , what have you been smoking ???????? Here's your "kind and Liberal" Leader,......................

www.eleventeen.net...

What a laugh,


franki, good find , very interesting and the points are well noted, sounds a lot like Bush to me,..............., thanks for the link, I made a short-cut on my desk top so I can take my time reading ALL of it.

That was great, what a Dude. Shake your money maker Granny

Originally posted by RedOctober90
Well said there general... well said.

True democracy exists when all people are involved.. not an elite few.

thankyou...*mock bow* haha

Can any of you, using the 14 criteria cited by the posts author, provide more than cursory opinions to support the contention that the USAis going fascist?

I see that 2 of us that dont agree that the USA is fascist, took the time to address the cited criteria (which itself is decent research), yet all ive seen from the "get the USA/Bush" people is baseless allegations that offer no evidence on the 14 points that past fascist regiems have displayed.

its time to put up or shut up on this one folks.....
either the conditions are met or their not...lets see the facts and not just the hype.

my opinion on fascist america...

we have created and harbored an enemy to stabalize the fueling of our war juggernaut. required funding for something that only poses an over hyped threat, merely to maintain our economic and politcal assets. scores and scores of corperate complicit propaganda flourish under the noses of each and every person who willfully digests news. world intelegence could very well be sanatized to a certain extent pertaining to the massive influx of US controlled intelegence. last but not least how can we forget home land police state debauchery. we know very little of their motives, their grip of power, their watchful eye, their myriad of pro corperate initiatives. the true power is being systematically sucked into the vacum atop the pyramid.

our leaders = money whores.

baseless? perhaps. theory? you bet!

keep in mind just because you have been perfectly crafted by the illuminati to piece together coherent bits of information into relevent and proffesional sounding arguments does not mean that your information is at all plausible, it only makes it that much more convincing

[edit on 18-11-2004 by sturod84]

I am truly exhausted from discussing these points with fools. Let those better than I advance their opinions and you dispute these minds and puff up your foolish chests and deny the TRUTH. In closing

POLAR BEAR





Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
He deserves a fair trial and a fine hangin'"
- John Wayne
=====================================================================================

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism."
-- U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Davis, Ex Parte Milligan (1866)

Americans need to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot loves his land and his people. A nationalist loves his government. The patriot voluntarily does what is necessary to protect his land and his people. A nationalist blindly obeys his government.
-- Charley Reese

=========================================

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the F�hrer of the German Reich, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that I shall at all times be prepared, as a brave soldier, to give my life for this oath."

The Oath of Every American
Sailor, Soldier, Airman, Marine, Law Enforcement Officer & Public Official

"I, [state your name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
========================================================
The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a
financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the
U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd
President, a letter written Nov. 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House


"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist
state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with
the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of
opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our
American ruling families are to the Nazi regime...Certain American
industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes
into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism
occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there."
William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937

"Fifty men have run America and that's a high figure." Joseph
Kennedy, the father of president John F. Kennedy

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible
government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to
the people." Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President, April 19, 1906
=======================================================
"The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR,
the Bilderberger Group, and the Trilateral Commission - founded by
Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - have prepared for and are now moving
to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They
are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against
citizens." Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, PhD, former German defense ministry
official and advisor to former NATO Secretary-General Manfred Werner,
November 6, 2001

[edit on 18-11-2004 by Polar Bear]

Yeah and I realize all you Above Top Secret idjits are much more intelligent and aware than those I quote. They are the fools and you little pop corn shrimp are the brains of the perpetual universe. Your arrogance is only surpassed by your inteligence, GOD help your Mothers sleep well

Bear

I think that's enough. Further insults will be dealt with. Back to the topic please.

i agree with polar bear and franki and other people who can see. i wonder if that is the special kind of sight that christ spoke of mhen he said, 'let those who have eyes, see'.

i said, 'OH YEAH!' as i read every one of them.
i don't need to defend that. that is how i see it.

of course, my eyesight sees into the past, and follows the chain of command through history. we see the same little groups of puppet masters play the human race like a virtuoso(NO, i don't 'admire' them, the pricks. i hate wagner.)

i have studied the history of philosophy as a hobby. and quantum physics. and music. now, i'm interested in media science. that's where the crux of the crux is.

it's because of my history, that i can look around and sniff out an agenda like a polar bear sniffs seal. i don't know if the carrier is volitional, but i do recognise a carrier.
of what? memes. that's what it's all about, and that's how it works folks. we are the memepool.

THAT IS ALL! (stomps one foot down hard)

Billybob says,

i agree with polar bear and franki and other people who can see.

Umm, excuse me, but...SEE WHAT?

Franki opened this thread with a decent look at historical fascist regiems, and the factors that they all had in common. These 14 points are not just about an idea being used but also how the government had put things into practice.

Well Franki didnt even go into details of where and how some of these factors applied to the current situation in the USA.
NONE of the rest of you even provided ANY evidence to corraborate basically speculative opinions. Yet your all willing to blindly make a broad based statement of fact based upon this thinly glossed over opinion before you can even cite examples of the 14 points being met.

And this is considered denial of ignorance?
It seems many of those that believe the contention that the USA is going/is fascist are letting your zeal to hate the President, blind you to objective assesments of the 14 points cited and real, tangible examples of where these have manifest, and how.

Again, see what? I see people wishing there was something that would make their opinions become reality, but NOTHING REAL that backs up these links to fascisim other that vauge perceptions.
Perception is not nessisarily reality....ever go see a magic show?
David Copperfield didnt REALLY make the statue of liberty dissapear, but if you were sitting in his audience, you certantly SAW him appear to make it vanish.

P.S. stop lumping "the religious right" in with "republicans" or "conservatives" in general.....lots of us that voted for President Bush dont go to church, are pro choice, pro-decriminalization of cannibis, and other moderate ideas.
BUT
Religion is not being used by many of us in order to dissagree....stop pushing your percieved religious prejudice onto the masses.....yes, some people ARE bible thumpers, but not everything revolves around the religion...in fact for some of us conservatives...NOTHING revolves around church.

I await a person pushing this "fascist USA" idea to show us all the many qualifying factors that meet the 14 researched points. and then extrapolate the level of fasism here. Starting with a conclusion before youve put out your case sounds like a back assward way to present any idea.

Here's some "sites" with "URLs" that I found after typing in "fascism america" in google's search engine. IMO, people are wearing blindfolds if they can't see the fascism that is taking hold of our Nation slowly but surely.

To the poster(s) that say,............ SHOW ME the connection of the "14 points" and America, at the beginning of this thread when franki posted it,........... this is some of what I found, and I say to the poster,......... SHOW ME that it isn't TRUE.


www.oldamericancentury.org...


No other word causes so much misunderstanding, confusion, and heated debate in politics than fascism. The term has been applied to many individuals such as McCarthy, Hoover, and others. It is frequently used to describe government policies and government themselves, often incorrectly. What then is fascism exactly? Webster's Dictionary defines it as: "A government system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls and belligerent nationalism." But the author takes exception with that definition. At best, the definition is vague and abstract. Nor does the definition seem capable of taking into all forms of fascism.

There is a resurgent, widespread attempt by the far right to label fascism as a form of socialism. Fredrick von Hayek was the first to attempt labeling the Nazis as socialists in his book The Road to Serfdom published in 1944.70 The hard right quickly adopted it, as it allowed the hard right to escape the charges that they had much in common with the Nazis.2 Such endeavors are not only silly, but dishonest as well and represent an attempt by the far right to distance themselves for their earlier support of Hitler.

Hayek's book is based on two erroneous assumptions from the very beginning. He first assumes that fascism and communism are one and the same, as they are both totalitarian systems. This makes about as much sense as calling a maple tree a pine tree because both are trees. His second erroneous assumption lays in his belief that only socialism or liberalism leads to totalitarian systems. In fact, all political systems can lead to totalitarian systems and all political systems are inherently unstable, as is any system created by man.

From there, Hayek takes severe liberties with history. For instance, he goes on to claim that by deliberate policy the United States by allowed the growth of cartels and syndicates after 1878.71 Indeed this date and time period is significant, but not for a move towards socialism or liberalism. Rather, it's the opposite a move towards fascism and corporate rule. Even a reader with a rudimentary knowledge of American history would recognize this time frame as the beginning of the robber baron era and laissez faire economics, precisely the type of economic policy Hayek holds in utmost esteem.

Hayek offers little proof to support his conclusions; in fact the book is devoid of any proof or even examples to support his findings. The book degenerates into an argument based upon unsubstantiated assertion. He argues against the nation state and proposes a supernational authority or world federation made up of the financial elite. In essence, Hayek proposes a world made up of sovereign corporations accountable to no one. Not only did Hayek take severe liberties with American history, he ignored the very nature of fascism in Germany and Italy.

In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the private sector after returning them to profitability such as the Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in 1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936 returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout 1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht, the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been prosperous even during the depression.

Both in fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, the tax system was changed to one favoring business and the wealthy. The Nazis allowed industries to deduct from their taxable income all sums used to purchase new equipment. Rich families employing a maid were allowed to count the maid as a dependent child and reap the tax benefit. In Italy, the Minister of Finance stated: "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."73

Such programs, catering to big business and the rich elite, are more akin to the policies of the Reagan Administration than it is to any liberal administration including FDR's. Likewise, it was the rich industrialists that were behind the fascist movement in the United States during the 1930s. Thus it is no surprise that the right wing attempts to try and label fascism as socialism in trying to distance themselves from their previous support of fascism.

www.spiritone.com...

The URL below is the "main Page Site"

www.spiritone.com...
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Fascism watch




"Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise. "


Adolp HItler

Fascism in America
The "Good German" syndrome
"To oppose the policies of a government does not mean you are against the country or the people that the government supposedly represents. Such opposition should be called what it really is: democracy, or democratic dissent, or having a critical perspective about what your leaders are doing. Either we have the right to democratic dissent and criticism of these policies or we all lie down and let the leader, the Fuhrer, do what is best, while we follow uncritically, and obey whatever he commands. That's just what the Germans did with Hitler, and look where it got them."
Michael Parenti, author


www.thirdworldtraveler.com...

The URL below is the main page

www.thirdworldtraveler.com...
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When Fascism Comes to America

by Maureen Farrell

I. When Fascism Comes to America, It Will Be Embraced by FOX News

"The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public. . ."� Former Vice President Henry A. Wallace, the New York Times, April 9, 1944

"Fox is not objective. Fox is a Republican propaganda machine." � Roger Ebert

In 1944, Henry A. Wallace, one of three Vice Presidents to serve under Franklin D. Roosevelt, assessed the threat of fascism in America and predicted that the time might come when the media was in collusion with the ruling power. "American fascism will not be really dangerous until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information. . . ," he wrote.

Decades later, during the first Gulf War, the media dutifully regurgitated propaganda while those in power did, in fact, "use the news to deceive the public." But the public remained so fully gullible that by the time the Bush Cartel's "Operation Iraqi Freedom" hit TV screens, the "deliberate poisoners of public information" didn't even have to break a sweat to fool us twice.

And although those who relied on FOX News were found to be the most misinformed, it wasn't until a series of FOX e-mails was leaked to the press that anyone grasped how "purposeful" the intent to mold opinion actually was.

"[Bush�s] political courage and tactical cunning are worth noting in our reporting through the day," FOX News chief John Moody e-mailed staffers on June 3, 2003, in one of many instances where reporters were instructed to glowingly praise G.W. Bush as Fearless Leader Extraordinaire.


www.buzzflash.com...



The United States of Fascism? Has America become a Police State?


The following is my paraphrase of Dr. Lawrence Britt's "Fascism Anyone?" article (Free Inquiry Magazine, Spring 2003). As you read on, ask yourself whether the following points are true or not:

1. Exuberant Nationalism.

"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency...Always there has been some terrible evil to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real." General Douglas MacArthur

2. Enemies Identified and Monitored.

"It is clear that the future of freedom and peace depend on the actions of America. This notion is freedom's home and freedom's defender. We welcome this charge of history and we are keeping it. The war on terror continues. The enemies of freedom are not idle and neither are we. This country will not rest, we will not stop, we will not tire until this danger to civilization is removed." President George Bush from a speech in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania on 12/02/03

3. Civil and Human Rights Disappear.

Three words for you...The Patriot Act (q.v.).

"It will be of little avail to people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be understood; or if they be repealed or revised before they are pormulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man knows what it will be tomorrow...Frequent changes give an unreasonable advantage to the sagacious, enterprising, and the moneyed few, over the industrious and uninformed mass of the people." James Madison


4. Secrecy Demanded and Maintained.

"Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy...censorship. When any government or any church, for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free." Robert Heinlein

5. Military Glorified.

This one is so blatantly obvious I didn't include a quote here -- just read and review American history and you'll see what I mean.

6. Corporations Protected and Given Special Rights.

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country...corporations have been enthroned and a era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejuidices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln

7. Corruption Rampant and Unchecked.

"We all know that, as things actually are many of the most influential and most highly remunerated members of the Bar in every center of wealth, make it their special task to work out bold and ingenious schemes by which their wealthy clients, individual or corporate, can evade the laws which were made to regulate, in the interests of the public, the use of great wealth." Teddy Roosevelt

8. Media Corporatized and Controlled.

"Mass democracy, mass morality and the mass media thrive independently of the individual, who joins them at a cost of at least a partial perversion of his instinct and insights. He pays for his social ease with what used to be called his soul, his discrimination, his uniqueness, his psychic energy, his self." Al Alvarez

9. Rampant Sexism.

"Lets keep in mind that rampant sexism in America is pervasive - it used to be one way (men towards women), know it is a two way street (men towards women and women towards men)." Anonymous

10. Intellectual Censorship and Bullying.

"When even one American - who has done nothing wrong - is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth, then all Americans are in peril." Harry Truman

11. Police Militarized, Vice Versa or both?.

"Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws." Anonymous

"In fascist regimes, the military are insidously and progressively given the power to intervene in domestic and civil laws & affairs." Anonymous

12. Elections Stolen.

Two words - Al Gore. Also, to see how regional elections are stolen, I highly recommed you watch the movie "A Perfect Candidate" -- it will open your eyes.

13.Labor Power is Suppressed.

"Organizing power of labor is one of the few real threats to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated or suppressed." Anonymous

14.Religion and Goverment Intertwined.

"Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders even when the major tenets of their religion are diametrically opposed to the governments policies or actions. Anonymous



Words to Ponder


"Men begin with acts not with thoughts." William Graham Sumner

"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resist it." John Hay

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then." Thomas Jefferson

"This country was founded by religous nuts with guns." P.J. O'Rourke

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

"We the People, are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." Abraham Lincoln


internettrash.com...

Listen to your Granny
Polar Bear