It's Wrong To Believe In Conspiracy on ATS

That's what we have reached here on ATS. It goes like this-

- Start a 'conspiracy' thread.

- Face ridicule from a group of 'balancers'.

Over the past 6 months, I've also noticed that when these groups go to work, it puts other posters off from posting. A little support would be nice every now and then, especially when you think this is a 'Conspiracy' site! But no, one stands alone whilst facing up to 3 posters whose mission is to undermine and discredit the OP.

This is nothing to do with people disagreeing with me, this it to do with the ever increasing number of posters whose job it is to undermine absolutely anything conspiracy related.

They make posting at ATS a real chore. Not because they are right, but because they are relentless. I'm sick of how they never quote a post in full, they always cut the post into parts in order to take what you said out of context. EVERY damn time!!

It would be alright if fellow ATS members would offer support and help tackle them in threads, but most just choose to ignore them and let the OP fight it out alone.



In fact, the only time you ever get a break on this site is when you post some current event news!! That's what ATS has become, a news site.

Or perhaps the conspiracy theories have reached such a high level of ridiculousness that they call for the ridicule. Everyone can voice their opinions on the topic, perhaps you should provide something of substance to support your belief.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I understand your point, but I have to disagree.

First, I think it is a bad idea to believe anything. There is nothing wrong with thinking there is a conspiracy going on for any given topic, but it should be based on facts that can be verified, or based on the best available information.

With that being said, the trend has been leaning heavily on this site for conspiracies to be based on outlandish generalizations, opinions, and wild speculation. Going about business in that manner gives us conspirasizers a bad name, and is why we are portrayed as goofballs and weirdos to the general public.

ATS has never been kind to nonsense, but if a thread is based on facts, it will hold up to scrutiny. Sure, some threads may get derailed by trolls, but facts cannot be debunked.

Edit: (conspirasizers) I just invented that word, you're welcome ATS.

I agree with the OP. At times when i have presented information, (whether or not it is conspiracy related) there are always members there ready to tear into specific parts of my argument...they don't even acknowledge that the OP had obviously spent some time researching, and writing down this information for the people of ATS to digest. It got so bad for me, when i was followed from thread to thread by specific members and attacked on things which were not even related to the topic at hand.

I posted a rant in response, it was closed (for undisclosed reasons), but ATS agreed with me (going by star rating). I suspect that the stars were evidence that many individuals here were sick of those other individuals.

In any case, it was enough to put me off the specific genre i was posting about, and posting on ATS in general.

S&F!!!

Originally posted by SpearMint
Or perhaps the conspiracy theories have reached such a high level of ridiculousness that they call for the ridicule.

Some of the theories posted on here ... especially about the school shooting in Connecticut and the Boston bombing ... were so outrageous and so pathetic that it was an embarrassment to be associated with an internet site that had them up for discussion. Some were silly, others bordered on the dangerous, and still others made me wonder if the poster had a mind that wasn't fully functioning.

If a conspiracy theory can't hold up under scrutiny, then it is weak and deserves a thrashing.
If a conspiracy theory can hold up while placed under the microscope, then it's a great theory.
When a theory is put to the test, it either weeds out the clunkers or makes the good ones shine.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012 I'm sick of how they never quote a post in full, they always cut the post into parts in order to take what you said out of context. EVERY damn time!!

Incidentally, this is exactly what posters are supposed to do.
Quoting large posts in full is frowned upon by the staff.
We're asked to quote only those portions directly relevant to our replies.
Which is what I'm doing.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree, but there were also some theories regarding the stated events which did hold up, but were marginalised, if not, silenced in order to fit the overall agenda of ATS. Sandy Hook is a perfect example. Nearly every thread which actually had something extensive to analyse, and held up under initial investigation was 404'd.

It didn't help when most of the anti-conspiracy members didn't even want to particularly analyse the cases, opting instead to insult and attack the OP.

I do believe that there needs to be stricter moderation of members' actions, but not so much as to limit the overall freedom of speech. It is a hard balance to get right, but i think it needs a bit more tweaking.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Wonderer2012 I'm sick of how they never quote a post in full, they always cut the post into parts in order to take what you said out of context. EVERY damn time!!

Incidentally, this is exactly what posters are supposed to do.
Quoting large posts in full is frowned upon by the staff.
We're asked to quote only those portions directly relevant to our replies.
Which is what I'm doing.

Indeed but one can easily quote someone out of context in this manner.

They know full well what they are doing. You have quoted me here and kept the context of what I said intact. That is perfectly fine and makes sense. What I am referencing is when they completely flip what you have stated to undermine you.

reply to post by watchitburn



Surely when one presents a theory (we cannot provide concrete proof in most cases) we offer some of the relevant info out there and then ask questions. Then, we hope to get discussion and connect the dots.

This does not happen at ATS, the same group of folks turn up and discredit and undermine the OP to the extent the conspiracy minded folks decide not to take part.

ATS should be a place to discuss theories (it is a conspiracy THEORY site afterall) where we try and connect the dots, but we are seemingly prevented from doing so unless there is 100% proof.

Conspiracy theory to me is looking at the overall picture and having the ability to accept that despite what is going on at the surface, something else is going on.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

If a conspiracy theory can't hold up under scrutiny, then it is weak and deserves a thrashing.
If a conspiracy theory can hold up while placed under the microscope, then it's a great theory.
When a theory is put to the test, it either weeds out the clunkers or makes the good ones shine.

I agree with that, but most theories are not given the chance because of the overwhelming negativity and ridicule of certain groups on here.

This is a news site, has been for a while now.

reply to post by daaskapital


I think that particular topic just got so completely out of control, the Mods adopted a policy of 404ing anything that got even remotely questionable.

It was unfortunate, but I don't begrudge the site. I blame the members who inundated the forums with all the garbage, that caused anything valid to be drowned out and washed away in the mayhem.

reply to post by Wonderer2012

Nothing wrong with a decent conspiracy. You know one that has some evidence we can analyse. Too often somebody comes along with a theory/conspiracy which is nothing more than fanciful imagination. Evidence is asked for but it never materialises. Unfortunately a lot of conspiracies these days have become religions. Think about it. The behaviour, belief, evidence, language , agitation etc etc are identical for religious belief and some of the conspiracies.

The best of it is, the conspiracy spawns other conspiracies. For example the media. In order for some conspiracies to be "true" then the information coming from the media MUST be lies. This then leads to the conspiracy that all the media is involved in one giant conspiracy to withhold the truth. From there the stories in the media (on other subjects) must also be lies and thus proof of even more conspiracies........WOW!!!!

reply to post by watchitburn



"conspirasizers"...........just amazing, honestly.

You sir HAVE invented a new word, I thank you for your contribution to the human lexicon.

Originally posted by daaskapital
I agree with the OP. At times when i have presented information, (whether or not it is conspiracy related) there are always members there ready to tear into specific parts of my argument...they don't even acknowledge that the OP had obviously spent some time researching, and writing down this information for the people of ATS to digest. It got so bad for me, when i was followed from thread to thread by specific members and attacked on things which were not even related to the topic at hand.

I posted a rant in response, it was closed (for undisclosed reasons), but ATS agreed with me (going by star rating). I suspect that the stars were evidence that many individuals here were sick of those other individuals.

In any case, it was enough to put me off the specific genre i was posting about, and posting on ATS in general.

S&F!!!

There are certain sections of the forum I would not even bother posting in. As time is going on, the 'safe' parts of ATS are getting smaller and smaller.

Originally posted by yorkshirelad
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

Nothing wrong with a decent conspiracy. You know one that has some evidence we can analyse. Too often somebody comes along with a theory/conspiracy which is nothing more than fanciful imagination. Evidence is asked for but it never materialises. Unfortunately a lot of conspiracies these days have become religions. Think about it. The behaviour, belief, evidence, language , agitation etc etc are identical for religious belief and some of the conspiracies.

The best of it is, the conspiracy spawns other conspiracies. For example the media. In order for some conspiracies to be "true" then the information coming from the media MUST be lies. This then leads to the conspiracy that all the media is involved in one giant conspiracy to withhold the truth. From there the stories in the media (on other subjects) must also be lies and thus proof of even more conspiracies........WOW!!!!

What you have outlined is the reason they are here.

It is about balance.

Conspiracy minded folks only discussing things with conspiracy minded folks creates the mentaility that EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

They are here to offer balance, I just don't like their methods of insulting people and undermining everything conspiracy related (ironically the exact opposite of what they are here to challenge, that is no coincidence :up

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I do know exactly what you're saying, Wonderer. And I agree. It's getting to be a rare treat to find a thread that carries some promise make its way to a decent conclusion.

There are certain deliberate destructors here who want everyone to fail. Whether it's their job as sockpuppets, or whether they just like to take the contrary view, or whether they think they're engaging in honest debate, the effect is the same: They ruin a thread with mayhem of whatever kind they can bring.

Your point about attempting to shred the OP's argument by shredding the context is something I've often noticed myself. I've concluded that these are people who have learned what they wrongly *believe* is valid debate technique because they've seen it used so many times over so many years all over the Internet. It's wrong, it's destructive, and it's invalid--but they believe it's their honest duty to poison every argument with it. Apparently from the arrogant--though mistaken--belief that they're smarter and can out-argue anyone.

And you're right about something else: Most of us ignore them; some of us walk away after making a single comment (if any). I don't believe it's the OP's duty to try to fight them; and I often wonder why the OP took the bait at all. And I think that answers why a lot of us don't do more to come to the aid of the OP. We're just tired of taking poisonous bait....

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

I do know exactly what you're saying, Wonderer. And I agree. It's getting to be a rare treat to find a thread that carries some promise make its way to a decent conclusion.

There are certain deliberate destructors here who want everyone to fail. Whether it's their job as sockpuppets, or whether they just like to take the contrary view, or whether they think they're engaging in honest debate, the effect is the same: They ruin a thread with mayhem of whatever kind they can bring.

Your point about attempting to shred the OP's argument by shredding the context is something I've often noticed myself. I've concluded that these are people who have learned what they wrongly *believe* is valid debate technique because they've seen it used so many times over so many years all over the Internet. It's wrong, it's destructive, and it's invalid--but they believe it's their honest duty to poison every argument with it. Apparently from the arrogant--though mistaken--belief that they're smarter and can out-argue anyone.

And you're right about something else: Most of us ignore them; some of us walk away after making a single comment (if any). I don't believe it's the OP's duty to try to fight them; and I often wonder why the OP took the bait at all. And I think that answers why a lot of us don't do more to come to the aid of the OP. We're just tired of taking poisonous bait....

Interesting points, I take the bait when I'm the OP because I guess it is human nature

There have been many threads where I have intended to reply to but then read the conversation below the OP and lost interest because it consumes vast amounts of energy dealing with these people. In fact, I very rarely post in threads where I am not the OP for this reason.

I might note that things like a couple threads in a row suggesting the Texas fertilizer plant was a Missile attack, aren't likely to go well for finding a lot of agreement to conspiracy theory without quite a tall stack of supportive evidence.

Since it's relevant, I'd looked back over some of your threads in your profile page. I've definitely had my own threads trashed by others, derailed or just become a big fail for one reason or another. It happens.... Come back with more evidence people can get their teeth into when presenting a brand new or fringe type conspiracy is what I'd say.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


I feel exactly the same way on every point.

I don't even want to start threads let alone, even post anymore. People with closed minds constantly ridicule conspiracy ideas and think they are smart for doing so when it's totally the contrary. They just show that fear gets the best of them and aren't even willing to be open on the subjects.

ATS isn't a conspiracy forum anymore, it's a forum to brag about how smart they are for disbelieving everything that isn't pushed by the MSM while getting stars from other closed minded posters. They can't even debate rationally, intelligently or respectfully at all.

I'm not saying everyone here should be loonies believing in every conspiracies but at least staying open minded and debating positively would bring back the quality that most ATS threads used to have just a couple months ago.

it depends on the context of the conspiracy. some things we know for certain based on prior certainties.
when we begin to see things that displace those certainties people throw in their 2 cents.

it's all relative. what you've experienced I have not and likewise so our personal certainties may not see eye to eye.