Snowden files 'show massive UK spying op'

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people

This group is working without oversight, without the control of our elected government, and you think it's paranoid to be suspicious about it?

These people can intercept the communications and private information of any politician, any judge, any lawyer, any journalist, and leak or use any information they can find against those people.

Good maybe it will end corruption in our governments

We have seen endless story's in the MSM over the past few years of politicians scamming the system and tax evading, keeping tabs on the government and the super rich tax dodgers is in my books a good thing, keeping tabs and thwarting terrorist plots or intercepting and arresting big time drug dealers and benefit frauds is a good thing in my books, without this systems these people would still be taking the piss and killing civilians on our streets, do people seriously believe they just get tipped of? lol, criminals are getting more and more sophisticated and so must agency's such as these to deal with the threats, those are the people who should fear the system those who are abusing it and trying to bring it down, and whether people admit it or not the systems is very needed in a modern society, without it it would fall apart with these people left unchecked,

Its not like they have the man power to listen in on everybody's conversations for no good reason they are no doubt far far far to busy to be doing that and probably do not even have the resources to follow every lead let alone be selling you phone call to your nan to your neighbors or sending you hearing aid brochures in the bloody post, serious? lol

While some see it as a threat and overreacting or plane old paranoid, its only a threat to privacy if you're up to no good, its not something that should have been made public but it is a vital tool in ratting out those who are abusing the system,

Originally posted by TritonTaranis

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people

This group is working without oversight, without the control of our elected government, and you think it's paranoid to be suspicious about it?

These people can intercept the communications and private information of any politician, any judge, any lawyer, any journalist, and leak or use any information they can find against those people.

Good maybe it will end corruption in our governments

I'm assuming you're too young to understand what you're saying, but you;re basically showing support for a dictatorship. You're willing to abandon the idea of democracy, because you "hope" that such an authoritarian regime would challenge abuses of power?

I hope you are a teenager, because that's some defense at least. If you're not, you really should be reading a hell of a lot more and learning the difference between democracy and dictatorship.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people


Some slight over exaggeration as expected on ATS

edit on 22-6-2013 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

If an ad hominem is your opinion, you have no opinion. So why post?

I'm posting to add my opinion so why reply?

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people


Some slight over exaggeration as expected on ATS

edit on 22-6-2013 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Good sheep. Go back to sleep now.

Consider this. The ability to capture data implies that there needs to be a way to use it somehow. Due to the enormous amount of data collected, only store it for so long before it needs to be deleted in order to store the data continually streaming in. The answer here is to read the data with a program and summarize it. Then they only need to update summaries on people and not strore every single thing you say or write or share.

The troubling part is that someone or some group makes decisions on how to characterize data. Seemingly threatening data could, due to short sightedness, actually be benign yet the individual who generated the data would get labled as a threat. It's not the fact that data is collected, it's how much we trust the way in which it is handled or manipulated.

To worry about that isnt being misguided, paranoid or mentally unstable. It's prudent and justified concern.

If left un-checked I think we will soon hear stories where someone suffered at the hands of a secretive govt. that mis-interpreted the data.

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You wrote:

keeping tabs on the government and the super rich tax dodgers is in my books a good thing

So you thing by the govt capturing data they are keeping tabs on themselves? Please expand on this thought as it doesnt make sense

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by TritonTaranis

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people

This group is working without oversight, without the control of our elected government, and you think it's paranoid to be suspicious about it?

These people can intercept the communications and private information of any politician, any judge, any lawyer, any journalist, and leak or use any information they can find against those people.

Good maybe it will end corruption in our governments

I'm assuming you're too young to understand what you're saying, but you;re basically showing support for a dictatorship. You're willing to abandon the idea of democracy, because you "hope" that such an authoritarian regime would challenge abuses of power?

I hope you are a teenager, because that's some defense at least. If you're not, you really should be reading a hell of a lot more and learning the difference between democracy and dictatorship.

NO

I understand perfectly well thank you

Its just seems most people are for bringing the system down all the time without realizing the benefits and safety it provides in our modern day society

If you're under the impression that any government or government official on earth is 100% honest or will ever be then maybe this planet or time is not for you?

The fact is like it or not, without this system available corrupt governments officials MPs & congressmen will abuse the system as they have done for years, terrorists & criminals & drug traffickers will be far more powerful left unchecked, and tax dodgers will be milking the system for more free hand outs which affects every honest tax payers pockets

Slightly over exaggerating Rocker2013, i'm simply stating that there are people out there abusing the system, and without keeping them in check it would likely become a dictatorship

So if i may i would like to ask you a question...

How else would you go about tackling these problems in our modern day civilized world???

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You wrote:

Its not like they have the man power to listen in on everybody's conversations for no good reason they are no doubt far far far to busy to be doing that and probably do not even have the resources to follow every lead let alone be selling you phone call to your nan to your neighbors or sending you hearing aid brochures in the bloody post, serious? lol

See my previous post. They don't need to listen an mannually analyze anything. There are security appliances available to the general public that tell where you go and categorize your data and activity. I can run reports that categorize people using a network. If I can do that with commercially available hardware and software then the govt surely can, and likely in a more specialized fashion. Don't kid yourself. We are all records in a database. The question is, what does your record show?

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Still waiting for one instance of the govt catching itself being bad. Heck, even govt officials are saying its used to catch terrorists. Never once have I heard that the data collected was used to convict a corrupt official

I don't agree with the argument that if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about and shouldn't mind being watched/spied on.

First of all, how would you feel if you look up from your television and see someone peering through your window at you?
Or open your bank statement to find that someone had already opened it and read it?
Or find that someone had been reading all your text's and listened to every phone call you have made?
But hey you shouldn't mind cause you have nothing to hide......

Regardless of what methods they use to collect and store information about you it is still an invasion of your privacy.

Also, I believe that everybody is guilty of something at sometime, whether it is flouting the speed limit, looking at porn sites, txting an ex, downloading music or films etc, etc.

The point is I'm pretty sure that the dirt could be dug on just about anyone if they so wished. They have a massive database of information on us all just waiting to be searched, and that is worrying.

reply to post by TritonTaranis

If you're under the impression that any government or government official on earth is 100% honest or will ever be then maybe this planet or time is not for you?

lol... no one expects the Government to be 100% honest. But we also don't expect it to be 100% corrupt and invade the personal lives of everyone. God damn straight this planet or time is not for me... but me and many like me will stick around just to make it hard for people like you to get what you want.

The fact is like it or not, without this system available corrupt governments officials MPs & congressmen will abuse the system as they have done for years, terrorists & criminals & drug traffickers will be far more powerful left unchecked, and tax dodgers will be milking the system for more free hand outs which affects every honest tax payers pockets

I see you're an expert at twisting the facts and turning them on their head. I'm afraid to inform you that the system is operated by corrupt governments officials and MPs. The same war mongers and psychopaths who feel it necessary to terrorize and overthrow Governments of other nations. The same corrupt politicians who work with lobbyists and corporations to undermine the free market and rig everything in their favor. You're worried about tax dodgers, take a look at some of the largest US corporations who RECEIVE millions from the IRS and don't pay a cent. You're worried about terrorists, then Facebook and Skype is the last place you want to look because terrorists use encrypted communications over secret channels. We must also keep in mind that more people die from peanut allergies each year than terrorists... would we set up a world wide surveillance network which monitors everyone in order to avoid peanut allergies? Can't you see that fear has been used against you in order to make you sacrifice your freedoms for a false security?

reply to post by TritonTaranis

The fact is like it or not, without this system available corrupt governments officials MPs & congressmen will abuse the system as they have done for year

What a naive nonsensical argument. You're suggesting that they're using this surveillance system to tackle corruption in the government?

Looks like they're doing a really good job doesn't it?!

reply to post by CallYourBluff


That is a very unrealistic assumption.

Really ...

any member that thinks
this behavior is nothing to be concerned with
needs to have their head checked


on a side note
project tempura is making
me want a bento box

reply to post by daaskapital


Yep. Read it on skynews!

I think soon the people will rise!

Yes, they can go after 'Terrorists' and 'Criminals' but the majority of us aren't either, so why should it be that they can check whoever they want?

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

They don't need to listen an mannually analyze anything. There are security appliances available to the general public that tell where you go and categorize your data and activity. I can run reports that categorize people using a network. If I can do that with commercially available hardware and software then the govt surely can, and likely in a more specialized fashion. Don't kid yourself. We are all records in a database. The question is, what does your record show?

You or anybody else is not seeing the bigger picture tho unfortunately


I don't think none of you understand my point because you're all way to absorb in fear of what ifs, BS propaganda, and taring everybody in the position of power with the same brush as those who have been exposed by programs such as these such as the expenses scandals of MP's, i think most of you have been subjected to alot of BS over the years, in which case there is no hope for you getting to grips & understanding my point, Which isn't a negative but a positive one,

Most of you seem to have a defeatist attitude towards mankind & progression of civilization and want to tear it down without really thinking or really being bothered about how to improve and fix it first, Give it time at least? thinking of all the possibilities on how to abuse these systems therefore it should be shut down is not the way forward and achieves nothing, its backwards and negative step towards chaos

The civilized world need these types of systems in today's modern society whether you all like it or not, they simply have to be in place, without them society would simply collapse and become far worst than it is today if it is just covered in red tape through fear, i on the other hand have faith that good men and civilization will prevail as it has done slowly but surely for the past 5.000 odd years, there are good and bad's in everything we have done to improve our worlds security over the years, with people using technology for good and bad, that is something we just have to live with and except as a reality, and make sure that trust worthy people are put in charge and put rules and laws into place to deal with any form of misuse of them or abuse there position of power

The fact is, in today's modern day civilized world criminals & terrorists, are becoming more & more sophisticated which requires more sophisticated ways to deal with these threats to our civilized world, left unchecked or unable to compete is far far more damaging & dangerous for the world should agency's have there hands tied in dealing with these threats, which is why they should have remained "secret" IMO, and these people exposing them have done more damage then good,

I wouldn't worrying about having hearing aids being sent to your door because you think these agency's have time to be selling of information about you being deaf, i'm sure the next step would be the government making clones of you all for the manpower to monitor you all for no good reason 24/7 365 days a year,

Id worry about drug gangs over taking your streets, id worry about terrorists planning bombings on your bus, id worry about benefit cheats milking the systems while sitting at home living the life of Riley draining the economy and your hard earned taxes, id worry about MP's & congressmen hording money in tax heavens and milking the system of expenses, big business corps & brands getting away with pay no tax,

There are good people out there believe it or not that will protect you and look out for you all fighting crime corruption & terrorism to keep you safe, i can understand some of your worries but as of yet NOTHING you guys have said has happened and likely never will, at least understand the benefits it provides to tackling these threats, so outweigh the pros & cons, and improve the system & people in charge of the programs if found to be abusing it, and sure if the system has proven to have been abused and used for other means then you can hit the streets and smash it up until said person is sacked and sentenced, but until then don't go rioting on the streets burning down the walls because YOU THINK its for this that or the other, that's just f##king backwards

Why do people fear it?, why is it automatically seen as bad just because "theoretically" it could be used for something other then what its used for? can you people not see that this is a crucial tool in making our street & world safer for all, people don't seem to realize it is essential to tackling all the above, and without it the systems would eventually collapse,

So i'm all ears guys.... who has a better way of tackling all these threats without using such programs ???

I completely understand the need for the spying in the UK as the radical Muslim seems to
be very prevalent in that region, Hmm could it be that it is gun free? or so acceptable to
to such a religion that has such a violent side?.. The UK has had many bombings in the
past, and I could see the need to find the source.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by daaskapital

 

Yep. Read it on skynews!

I think soon the people will rise!

Yes, they can go after 'Terrorists' and 'Criminals' but the majority of us aren't either, so why should it be that they can check whoever they want?

edit on 22-6-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

Ohhh i know, is the reason that they can't bring down every criminal organisation or stop every terror attack simply because they're to busy reading your FB messages?

Come on guys soon security cameras will be fitted will hell fire missiles and attack you if you say BOMB on Facebook more than twice

The paranoia is ridiculous on here

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
I completely understand the need for the spying in the UK as the radical Muslim seems to
be very prevalent in that region, Hmm could it be that it is gun free? or so acceptable to
to such a religion that has such a violent side?.. The UK has had many bombings in the
past, and I could see the need to find the source.

Finally some common sense

The street could be made much more safer for everybody if our government wasn't wasting time reading and listening to pointless phone calls and messages, oh wait that's actually not what they're doing at all, i've just been sucked in, that was just the ramblings of nonsensical BS made up by paranoid recluses reading to many conspiracy's,

Using common sense & logic... they just DON'T HAVE the time money & resources to be doing any of what these nutjobs are conspiring, or do they give a [snip] what the millions of millions of western citizens are talking about on FB or over the phone... unless of course its of interest to national SECURITY!!!

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by CallYourBluff
I don't think us little people have much to worry about with this or the NSA. I'm pretty sure they'll be spying on the big fish, not Joe public.

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people

Some slight over exaggeration as expected on ATS

I submit to the jury that these two members should be instantly banned from ATS for flagrant acceptance of ignorance.

LOL... I was thinking a special award should be created for "SHILL OF THE DAY"

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by CallYourBluff
I don't think us little people have much to worry about with this or the NSA. I'm pretty sure they'll be spying on the big fish, not Joe public.

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
pretty sure the only people who feel threatened by this a misguided paranoid mentally unstable people

Some slight over exaggeration as expected on ATS

I submit to the jury that these two members should be instantly banned from ATS for flagrant acceptance of ignorance.

LOL... I was thinking a special award should be created for "SHILL OF THE DAY"

LOL Yeah dude


What about most paranoid forum member?

Or

Most delusional conspiracy gripped recluse?

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You sound more and more like a Government Shill paid for by we the people. It is obvious you are the one who is woefully ignorant of history so much so you are willing to give the government whatever it wants. As one person said, "where are the convicted high up people that you know have to be guilty of crimes"?

The IRS scandals first scapegoats are low level people. Where are the real culprits? Oh, it's ok to audit people and businesses who give aid and comfort to your political enemies. Just how did they know to close down only Republican owned car dealerships when they took over GM?

I really suggest though I highly doubt you will actually avail yourself to the information but I digress, I really hope you will watch Naomi Wolf's talk on how they are doing everything in America that they did under Hitler in 1933! I know it is hard to accept that we have psychopaths running our government who believe up is down and down is up, and we should too, but many of us are awake. We will not forgive this and we will not forget what that have done to us and in our name.