Obama administration charges NSA whistleblower Snowden with espionage

I'll be surprised if Hong Kong extradites him. This is only going force him to spill all the beans. If they're going to execute him, what does he have to lose?

Let's hope the same thing happens to Snowden as that other guy that released classified information. What was his name, again? Oh yeah, "Scooter" Libby.

Originally posted by TheCrimsonGhost
Bring in the firing squad. This guy is a traitor.

The american government IS the traitor for clinging on to the patriot act and for using the uk, australia to spy on americans, which is wholly unethical and unnecessary. You used to need a warrant based on a suspected crime being committed. Defacto surveillance is criminal!

Snowden is a hero in my book! What law did he break? Whisteblowing corruption is not considered a crime.

Snowden faces execution as sealed complaint charges espionage,

The TV news just said that he can't face the death penalty with the charge of espionage.
With treason ... yes, but he's not charged with that. Espionage ... up to life in prison.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Now if there was a man among those wimps in Congress, this is the time we'd hear immunity offers for testimony under oath to the investigations THEY thought mattered so much and his contribution would directly make or break. Of course, they won't. In my opinion, it shows their interest was never about truth or actually finding what has actually happened. Oh hell no. They wanted to play politics. The truth is sitting in Hong Kong and the legal means exist to bring him back under full cover of immunity for what he's done, so long as his testimony covers every bit of it.

The problem, naturally, is half of Congress thinks the same of him for being a traitor. Well... I do hope we all recall that, no matter which letter their names have, come 2014 and 2016. We can't see Congressman charged for their lesser crimes against us and the national good, but we CAN see to it they no longer serve in public office. They deserve no less as they show no compassion to this man.

In a nutshell, the congress are those with the espionage tag, it's ridiculous. Listen carefully to the vested interests. Sky News tonight reviewing tomorrow's papers, (not the Snowden charges) but GCHQ in the latest round of Guardian releases on what is none other than spying. One reviewer is a former met police officer called Jacqui Hames, "I have no bother with this" the other, a Sunday people man, "I'm not that bothered" and they are talking about their own electronic information being looked at by anyone who can. They appear to be on a different tack otherwise, but it's very telling that both are saying it's okay to be spyed on. It is not okay, full stop. Just because they say that does not make it right. Both police and newspapers have accessed private electronic information, and are known to be cosy with one another, and in fact it's hard to exclude any power base, either corporate, legal, government, police, scientific or press from being a cosy family. I hesitate to go political but you are right, just don't vote for them any more, they are only a bunch of Munchkins and deserve nothing more than a free cheese sample from Walmart. In edit, Apologies to mods, but I did edit some of Wrabbit's post, the rest was needed.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Snowden is not a criminal. He ignored an unlawful order. If he is a criminal, then the Nazi's an Nuremburg should have been exonerated.

We cannot say, "I was following orders" is no excuse out of one side of our mouth, and then out the other side not back that up by supporting people who refuse to follow unlawful orders.

Since when has leaking to the press been "espionage"? It seems we're now living in a dystopia where standing up for the truth is a criminal act. Next they'll go after Glenn Greenwald and other journalists who expose the corruption of those in power and when that happens you know you are living in a totalitarian state. This cannot be tolerated in a supposedly free society. Crazy.

reply to post by SloAnPainful
I would have to see and read all of the evidence (not just what the MSM tells us) in order to make the judgement of whether or not he needed to be tried for espionage. If all he revealed is what the American government has been doing to it's own citizens behind their backs I would say NO, but we don't know yet whether or not he has revealed information that would be detrimental to national security that we haven't heard about. If he did I could see where they would want to do some damage control and keep a lid on it, especially if it is something that makes us vulnerable to possible enemies. As far as the rest of what he is reported to have revealed concerning spying on other countries- everybody spies on everybody.....and that has never been a secret!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by TheCrimsonGhost
Bring in the firing squad. This guy is a traitor.

The american government IS the traitor for clinging on to the patriot act and for using the uk, australia to spy on americans, which is wholly unethical and unnecessary. You used to need a warrant based on a suspected crime being committed. Defacto surveillance is criminal!

Snowden is a hero in my book! What law did he break? Whisteblowing corruption is not considered a crime.

They, the nations you mention and more are all part of the same sandwich, as for whistleblowing in the US, Obama had the last word on that before election, and that was to protect them, as patriots. His words, not mine. I don't particularly think he didn't mean it at the time, but he has failed miserably to make the right stance, and put an end to all this bull.

Here's the complaint.



-SAP-

Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by SloAnPainful

 

I would have to see and read all of the evidence (not just what the MSM tells us) in order to make the judgement of whether or not he needed to be tried for espionage. If all he revealed is what the American government has been doing to it's own citizens behind their backs I would say NO, but we don't know yet whether or not he has revealed information that would be detrimental to national security that we haven't heard about. If he did I could see where they would want to do some damage control and keep a lid on it, especially if it is something that makes us vulnerable to possible enemies. As far as the rest of what he is reported to have revealed concerning spying on other countries- everybody spies on everybody.....and that has never been a secret!

The downside to this: no one will ever see any body of evidence. There will be no hearings. We may be told there are hearings. And there may indeed be a kangaroo court. But if you think he will receive a trial where any citizens are present....ain't gonna happen.

What you would get would be "their" word that he received due process and a fair trial. And that would be the official story for posterity.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
I completely agree. The public will never know the truth of exactly what really happened; in fact I doubt we will get a story even close to resembling the truth. I think right now the story we are getting is just what they want us to know and have instructed the MSM to tell us.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

Snowden is not a criminal. He ignored an unlawful order. If he is a criminal, then the Nazi's an Nuremburg should have been exonerated.

We cannot say, "I was following orders" is no excuse out of one side of our mouth, and then out the other side not back that up by supporting people who refuse to follow unlawful orders.

Excellent, It just shows the legalise con, what's the difference between what he did and Mutiny, he is not charged with that is he?

Originally posted by CoolStoryMan

Originally posted by TheCrimsonGhost
Bring in the firing squad. This guy is a traitor.

the real traitors are the ones listening to our phone calls, reading our emails, and so on

The government is not listening to your phone calls nor reading your emails without a warrant and probable cause. They only have access to numbers you call and numbers that call you.

Now, just because I seem to support the government by providing you with this information, the opposite is true. But the truth is the truth and the way to fight liars is not with lies.

The government is really doing what they think is good for us. That is not to say I agree with their approach. On one hand, these patriot act implementations have protected us from foreign imminent threats and prevented situations which could have cost thousands of lives if they were not in place. So im thankful for that. On the other hand, our individual freedoms are being compromised as we are subject to the same treatment and surveillance as terrorists.

I am an advocate of utmost freedom. I think the individual should have individual freedoms when interacting with individualistic situations. But any interaction from an individual to a large scale situation, such as a terrorist to a skyscraper filled with thousands of individuals, should be subject to security measures. In other words, tap my phone all you want, but dont dont use that information against me in a court if I have a long history of of frequent phone calls to a known drug dealer if im being tried for possesion of marijuana. If im a psycopathic serial killer... okay. But if killed one person in my life who I thought had it coming and you see that around the persons time of death, I made some phone calls to the shovel company. Stay out of my damn personal business government. For these matters have no real bearing on your actual corporate agendas. They should therefore be ignored by you.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Yes he is, and here is how this is justified.

When you work in the federal government or with a contractor that does business with the federal government, there is the chance that a person is handling classified information. In the handling of that classified information, along with the background checks, and the various ins and out, there are documents signed by all who handle classified information that inform them of the laws and rules for handling classified information.

As with any job, if you break a rule there are consequences. And in this case, if you breach confidentiality, and reveal classified information, to the general public, it is against the laws of the USA. Thus while Snowden did what he did due to conscious, he did break the law, he did take and reveal classified information and ultimately broke the law.

The laws that protect classified information, and the prosecution of people who reveal such is as follows: Espionage Act of 1917, The Atomic Energy Act of 1954, and the Intelligence Identities Protections Act of 1982.

Now here is the sticking point that the federal government can not get around, and that is this will have to be a public trial, it can not conduct this behind closed doors, nor can it hide the proceedings from the US Public. It will ultimately be up to a Judge and Jury to determine at what level of classification and the penalties due to the nature of the information released.


But what they are going to charge him with ultimately is on three charges, based off of what I have heard on the news: Theft of Government property, and 2 charges under the espionage statues.

Now here is the twist, and the kink in the entire taking him to court, China, has a vested interest in Snowden and he is not going to go anywhere anytime soon, till they have determined what to do with him.

Originally posted by SloAnPainful

Snowden faces execution as sealed complaint charges espionage

Bollocks! Snowden faces extradition, not execution!

If you must insist on quoting the Kremlin's government-owned propagada channel, you could at least read the article properly and get the headline right.

What is the definition of irony? The U.S. charging Snowden with espionage because he charged the U.S. with spying.

reply to post by Sankari


The rules of this forum is to quote the article. I can't change the headline of the article...

ETA: Just realised they changed the name of the headline and I can't go back and edit it...

-SAP-

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
Some view Snowden as a traitor others view him as a hero. I think what he did was right and whatever the case maybe he doesn't deserve to be killed.

The article doesn't say he's going to be killed.

What do you think ATS?

I think you need to improve your literacy skills and stop relying on the Russian government's propaganda channel.

Originally posted by crazyewok
Well that makes asylum more easy!

There are alot of countrys that wont extridite if the person faces execution.

Where does the article say he faces execution? Quote it directly please.

Snowden committed treason, because a US media source would not release his entire presentation, he took it to a foreign source. My thoughts are he is a traitor. This program was created under Bush, and anybody who has spent any amount of time online, knows their actions are being tracked, same with cell phones, the calls go out over clear airspace. Snowden has reduced the government's ability to protect their citizens, therefore he has committed treason. We should follow British law on this one, and he should be hung, drawn, and quartered.