Paula Deen uses the N-Word - gets sued - right or worng?

reply to post by Spider879

OK, if that doesn't deserve a star, nothing does. Great explanation!

You're right; the word has changed over time, and is still changing. That's what words do. The only reason Latin is used in different technical fields is that it is a dead language and does not change as much as English. As an example, a "fag" is simply a flaming torch, like the ones Indiana Jones used in the movies. It can also mean "cigarette" in some cultures (I think the British use it that way?). On the other hand, it is used in the US at this moment in time as a derogatory slur.

The n-word here has changed back to closer to its original meaning: someone with dark skin, of African or similar ancestry. That's all it means. But other cultures have adopted the slur meaning it temporarily had after the Civil War and refuse to let it go.

I really wish some of you guys who are demanding that it is derogatory could meet White Eye. He is an old black man who lives around here, and one of the finest human beings I have ever known. There isn't a racist bone in his body; he bristles every time someone says something that he considers racist. But he uses that N-word constantly. I was buying a tiller from him some time back and took my wife to meet him and check out the tiller. When we pulled up, there was White Eye sitting in his rocker outside his little shack. He saw me and waved, I waved back, and we walked up to him. I introduced my wife and White Eye motioned for her to come close. He pointed to me and quietly said, "That fellow with you, there... he ain't no n***** is he? Cause we don't allow no n****** around here."

I laughed, he laughed, my wife, once she got over the shock, laughed, and we had a good conversation. I left with a mighty nice tiller and a smile on my face.

It's his way of showing that there's no real difference between us.

Many years ago, I was working in a design office where a young black man with a very Muslim name, from California originally, worked at the desk next to me. I liked Omar; he was always a pretty cool guy, although he was undergoing a bit of culture shock. One day a friend was chatting around with me and he asked if I had seen Mr. T. I had no idea who he was talking about. He asked if I had ever seen the new TV show "The A-Team." I had, but only once or twice and didn't know who the actors were yet. He told me Mr. T played B. A. Barracus, and without thinking I said, "That big n*****? Oh, man, I was wondering who played him... I love that guy!"

Omar spun around. "What did you say?"

I simply replied, "Omar, you're in Alabama. You're gonna hear it sometimes. It just means black; get used to it."

Had I thought, I would have said "black man." But I was excited, because I really did admire Mr. T's acting ability and his character. Later on I would find out more I admired about him: his work with children, the reason he wears the gold chains around his neck. If I ever met him, I would want to shake his hand.

Think about it... why would I slur someone I admired?

Omar and I were, I think, even closer friends after that day. I sometimes think about him and wonder what ever happened to him.


That is what we need to do. We need to allow each other to get to know us without fear of prosecution or societal backlash. There was a time period where I was actually afraid to talk to anyone who was black... I had no idea what to call them... were they black? Negro? African-American? someone of color? What? It depended on what they preferred to be called, and not knowing ahead of time what their personal preference was made people a target for accusation.

Until we get to the point where we can openly talk to each other, racism will still exist. Racism is based on fear of those not like ourselves, and familiarity removes fear. And that, is how I will tie this rambling post back to where it began... with Spider.

Thank you for telling your side of things and for listening to mine. I admire you for the courage to do that, and for bringing knowledge of your culture. You obviously have a lot of pride in your heritage, and I respect you for that. Never lose that pride, and never feel threatened over others doing the same. There is much much more alike between us than different.

I only hope everyone can realize that before things go the wrong direction badly.

TheRedneck

Oh, I meant to include in the above post... Paula Deen just lost her spokesperson gig for Smithfield as well.

I am a little disappointed at her sons... they were on CNN trying to help their mother, and lying through their teeth about despising the word... political correctness will not solve anything. I don't believe they are racist, but I also don't believe they hate the word as much as they claim... their mother admitted it was a part of her language in the past.

TheRedneck

Amazing how one little word can do so much damage. And yes, I get that the lawsuit is about harassment in the workplace. That is a different animal than this. The suit isn't what caused her to lose everything, it is still pending. The utterance of the word, the one given so much power...that is what led to this downfall.

And while some may be happy seeing her fall, consider how many people her brand and packages employed.... Do you think stores are still going to carry her line of endorsed cookware, for example? Think of ALL of those lives affected (no doubt some of them are African Americans)....because of the granted power of a stupid word. Good job folks....good job...

Whatever the semantics of the word, it carries different meaning to a huge number of people.

If people wants to keep using the word and reminding the black people the "good ol days" they had then pick a word for yourself and make it a taboo, and if someone uses it, sue the sht out of them or counteract them using their racial slur word.

Win-win situation here.

Originally posted by luciddream
Whatever the semantics of the word, it carries different meaning to a huge number of people.

If people wants to keep using the word and reminding the black people the "good ol days" they had then pick a word for yourself and make it a taboo, and if someone uses it, sue the sht out of them or counteract them using their racial slur word.

Win-win situation here.

Translation: lower yourself to that level so that you can then be equals.

No thanks. George Carlin put it well when he said, "I will leave symbols to the symbol minded". A word with such meaning is a symbol. I am better than that.

The thing that is most frustrating is our obsession with words and ignorance of actions. We have spent a week haggling over Paula Deen's words. Yet we still have a rogue government that is allowed to continue to lie, steal, and cheat every step of the way.

Misplaced concerns.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Oh, I meant to include in the above post... Paula Deen just lost her spokesperson gig for Smithfield as well.

I am a little disappointed at her sons... they were on CNN trying to help their mother, and lying through their teeth about despising the word... political correctness will not solve anything. I don't believe they are racist, but I also don't believe they hate the word as much as they claim... their mother admitted it was a part of her language in the past.

TheRedneck

And that's where I think you are very confused. Was it a word used by my grandparents, yes. Have I ever heard it used by my parents or have I every used it? Hell no. Why? I was taught it was not acceptable, and it isn't. No suddenly bs. No trying to learn how to not be an offensive a-hole. Just common respect. I don't have any problem believing that her kids made a choice not use the word, because times had changed when they were young.

There just in NO excuse for using the word in general, much less in your business and around your employees. That's just plain stupid on her part. She appears to be a pretty trashy and bigoted woman who happens to have enough money and fake television charm to cover it up. How can I grow up in Texas and at age 42, I know that common respect for your fellow man says you don't use the word? Miracle of nature?

its "my meaning for the word is more important" or "i'm superior to you so i'm not changing the way i call you"

If i tell my boss he has a fag, should he be offended? i'm just saying he has cigarettes, my meaning came before the new "fag" term, thus, his perspective don't matter.

I will also call all my female co workers sluts.

I would be out of the office in a week.

reply to post by usernameconspiracy

There just in NO excuse for using the word in general, much less in your business and around your employees. That's just plain stupid on her part.

She didn't.

She said under oath, when asked if she had ever used the word, that yes, she had used it in the past. That's all she said. Show me one complaint that she used it in a business setting, show me one report that she had used it recently, show me one example of her acting in a racist manner.

You really do seem to have a chip on your shoulder over a word. More power to you - I'm just glad I don't have to carry all that weight around.

TheRedneck

reply to post by luciddream

Wow...

Let's try this analogy:

If you are talking to your employee in Britain and they say "Excuse me while I go have a fag," would you fire them for it?

We're not talking about an intentional desire to speak a word or to offend anyone; we are talking about cultural differences that are blown out of proportion when no offense is intended but much offense is taken.

At least that's what I am talking about. If you want to talk about people intentionally offending others, it'll be a short discussion.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


How would you know if it is intentional or not if it becomes a common usage? This would just make racist be more openly racist, and would be okay. Shouldn't we make all the "bad" woulds a common usage, in order to desensitize them?

What would they mean when they say it.

Because these "bad" words already have a meaning attached to it, how would you use it without it its meaning?

Why would F**k be censored when i use it as a different meaning?

"that show was f**king great" < is this any bad?

reply to post by luciddream

Because these "bad" words already have a meaning attached to it, how would you use it without it its meaning?

EXACTLY!

These so-called bad words have multiple meanings... how do we know which meaning is used? We don't... so we have to give the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty, right? Not if you use the wrong word... then you're just guilty!

Since the Texan used George Carlin, I will too: "There are no such things as bad words... bad thoughts, yes, but no bad words." (paraphrased)

You can assign any meaning to any word you want and use it around me. If I find it objectionable, I'll just politely go somewhere else. If not, I might hang around. In either case, I will not condemn you over a word.

I just wish others would afford people that same courtesy.

TheRedneck

Every action has a consequence and this particular one has come back to bite Paula in the derriere. I'm having a difficult time conjuring any sympathy for her predicament. The reason she has been fired from her network and is losing lucrative business deals is because her image is now woefully tarnished. Much like Lance Armstrong, no business wants to be associated with scandal.

1. Etymon. As a general rule, swearing of any kind is frowned on in polite society and has been through the ages. So there is a tendency to invent euphemisms for swear words, so that they might be used in a milder form. In the Middle Ages, the fashion was for religious swear words like egad and zounds. Egad was a simple substitute for “God”. Zounds was a shortening of “God’s wounds” as was – excuse my French – woundikins. Odds bodkins was “God’s body” and gadzooks was “God’s hooks” referring to the nails that pinned Christ on the cross. You might think that the creation of such religious swear words has stopped, but it hasn’t. The newer ones simply don’t sound so archaic. Gee whiz and jeez (for Jesus) are quite recent, as are; jeepers creepers (for Jesus Christ), doggone (for God damn), gosh (for God) and great Scott (for good God). Also recent is the use of the names Christopher Columbus, Judas Priest and Jiminy Cricket as mild swear words, for which the etymon is Jesus Christ – but you probably wouldn’t know that unless you were told. An etymon, by the way, is a root word from which other words derive and etymology is, of course, the study of etymons.

Bad words only disappear when people stop using them or they fail to get a reaction.

10 bad words you don't know.

reply to post by luciddream



Then like i have said: save the same condemnation for Kanya West while he was singing about that gold digger. Or any other hip hop star.

Wrong is wrong.. You don't level the playing field by allowing additional wrongs. You level it by removing the wrongs. That is what is just. That is making it right.

I cannot be bothered with an old white woman saying a word, when there is an entire public face of a culture that make million$ off that very same word.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


So pretty much it boils to they can say it and you can't? power struggle issue then? inferior/superiority complex?

"they flaunt it in my face and i can't say it! not fair!"? its not equal!?

If its just a word, then why even be bothered by the fact that you can't use it?

I grew up with lots of bad words, does that mean i have to use it?

I'm not gonna lose sleep over the fact that i can't say a single word, less people speak it, the faster it disappears.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

So pretty much it boils to they can say it and you can't? power struggle issue then? inferior/superiority complex?

"they flaunt it in my face and i can't say it! not fair!"? its not equal!?

If its just a word, then why even be bothered by the fact that you can't use it?

I grew up with lots of bad words, does that mean i have to use it?

I'm not gonna lose sleep over the fact that i can't say a single word, less people speak it, the faster it disappears.

No, it doesn't boil down to that.

It boils down to freedom. I want stupid people to say stupid things so i can identify them easier. I want to live in nation where silly words don't destroy. Where people are not hypervigilant for what is going to offend them next. Where hand wringing is the favorite past time.

You don't feel a little smaller as a person taking part in the current human experience? You don't feel like the world distracts itself with meaningless tripe? Can you not name 10 other things that are more important than what Paula Deen said 20 years ago?

Sometimes I wake up and wish that my fellow countrymen were engaged in what is really impacting them. Instead I get a bunch of monkey's flinging poo everywhere.

Should people insult others? No. But why would you want to stop them? Do you want to deal with real people? Or lies and facades put up to avoid trampling delicate sensibilities.

See, there is a difference between being docile and being civilized. Being civilized means I am not causing you harm. By "harm" i don't mean your feelings, either. Being docile worries about everyone's feelings. I have run businesses where feelings come first. Such businesses fail. Because worrying about feelings creates dishonesty, and nothing is ever accomplished.

Kinda like the modern state of the USA.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


BTW, for what its worth....it is a word I absolutely never use. The south I am from is not the same south as Redneck. Many similarities....that is not one of them.

My dad? He sure did use the term a lot. I hated hearing him say it until I got older and knew someone similar to the White EYe in the above story. My black nieces never seemed to mind much, either. Although once he died I put a stop to them using that word in reference to themselves ("if you don't respect yourself, how will anyone else respect you" sort of thing).

Just not a term I use. Although I do use what many would consider racist slurs relating to hispanics quite frequently. My dark brown goddess of a wife doesn't mind either. It isn't my intention, and she knows. But this is a strange world where saying "Mexican" can be seen as racist by some morons out there. Never mind me calling her "Morena" or joking that my kids are "mojado". Or coconuts (brown on the outside, white on the inside). We just embrace what makes us different. this morning she came into the room and said, "Your mom...". I asked her "What?", and she said, "Never mind. White people problems".

Sadly words do hurt and it send many people down deep depression another mental disorders and scars, what we have here is sanction whether we can do that or not.

We should be able to call a mentally retarded child a f**king retarded in front of ITS mother. right?

Heck we can, but why should we? And if there is a taboo against that, would that be bad?

_____


I really don't care Paula Deen Said the N-word, she is not getting sued for that, that's just a cheery on top... The "ni**er style wedding" and sexual harassment is what going to set her back(or already has).

I don't really care if there is a law tomorrow allowing everyone to degrade and slung insults around. In my opinion, its just going to set the world back, away from civility and respect for fellow human beings..

edit: im nor white or black, incase there is already a presumptions lol. i just like jumping in threads and going against the majority.

In all seriousness there's a question that's been burning my head for some years now and this seems like a great place to ask it.

For the non-blacks who are hiphop fans: How do you handle singing along to your favorite hiphop song and encountering the aforementioned slur in the lyrics. Do you sing it, do you replace it with 'N-Word', or do you skip it completely? WHY?

For those deeply offended by the word: How do you feel if you hear somebody singing along to a hiphop song that uses the word?

I still say Carlin was right... there are no bad words, there are just words. The nature in which they are used is everything. I will not type out the word here because of ATS rules, but I will say it is beyond ridiculous to see main stream media discussions and debates over it in which all participants speak in riddles and codes, never using the actual word but instead meticulously using the scrubbed "N-Word." Nothing like watching grown men scared crapless of being caught using a simple word IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT SAID WORD. It's like having a high school sex ed class, but requiring the teachers to only discuss the genitals using the words pee-pee and hoo-hah. I'll break rank here and say the actual word holds no power to me above any other words in the American language. I've actually said the word before. *gasp* There was no hate or racism behind it, but I refuse to discuss issues like I'm sitting in the middle of children trying to use cutesy code words and dumbing myself and everyone else down.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

or the non-blacks who are hiphop fans: How do you handle singing along to your favorite hiphop song and encountering the aforementioned slur in the lyrics. Do you sing it, do you replace it with 'N-Word', or do you skip it completely? WHY?

As a non-black, and not really a hiphop fan, i hate it but since i been in the social life, i have been in places where hip hop music is common. What do i do during a song? i say the word if its in the song, even around my black friends.


But if i am in a crowd with black men i don't even know, i would like to not say that, even if i don't mean it, i don't know how they would take it... who knows, maybe one of the guy's great great grandpa was hanged on tree with a string around his neck and he still hold son to that hate.


I also think, it is seen as a major issue if a white person says it, compared to another background. But i also have seen white guys say it among black guys, if they are good friends.
...

Lets say publicize the word, its okay for everyone to use it... you think kids won't pick on black kids.

"hey look a Ni**ger has a book!, better hope that Ni**er cant read!""

Sanctioned racism.