"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by 23432


"If group of people want to go by their rules & regulations and if it is not infringing on others rights,well , it is a free country after all ."

Sharia law infringes on Women's rights and human rights never mind the dubious moral aspects of said set of laws!

That's correct it is a free country, and only because we have one set of laws for all, It's called equality.

If I went over to any Muslim nation and started screaming that i want a different set of laws for me and mine I would be lucky to leave said situation with my testicles intact.

If Muslim people want to follow Sharia law here in the UK they are in the wrong country. I hear Saudi arabia quite likes the notion. LoL

Everyone must follow the same set of laws here in the UK im afraid, even Muslim's!

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by 23432

 

"If group of people want to go by their rules & regulations and if it is not infringing on others rights,well , it is a free country after all ."

Sharia law infringes on Women's right and human rights never mind the moral aspects!

That's correct it is a free country, and only because we have one set of laws for all, It's called equality.

If I went over to any Muslim nation and started screaming that i want a different set of laws for me and mine I would be lucky to leave said situation with my testicles intact.

If Muslim people want to follow Sharia law here in the UK they are in the wrong country.

Every one must follow the same laws here in the UK im afraid, even Muslim's!

edit on 21-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

I don't know how does the Sharia Law infringes my rights here in east midlands ?
I still live my life like how I always lived it . In other words these recent immigrations from some Asian & African countries didn't have any effect on my way of living .

I do go by " when in Rome,do as Romans do " motto but one point you are missing is that a free country allows people of different faiths to co-exist .
Furthermore , Britain's historical heritage requires it to include Sharia within the Legal system .

If some one wants to get an interest free loan to buy a house and Sharia Law is needed to underwrite this loan,well why would I argue ?

On the other hand if some one wants to chop a hand,that is obviously not acceptable.

reply to post by 23432


It doesn't matter what faith you are, same laws have to apply to all or none. Without that basic tenant justice cannot be seen to be done. Hence anarchy would ensure.

What would happen if for some reason under certain circumstances Sharia law was applied to a U.K national(Non Muslim), would he/she be required to comply with the judgment of the non lawful court?

You see the problem, there can be only one set of laws for the land. Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and all other religions must abide by these same laws i'm afraid!

Ask any Judge! They don't care what colour, creed or faith you are, just what is in there rule book!

Don't know why that muslim women's league article is 404'd.

But, if you type: An Islamic Perspective on Violence Against Women, into google, you'll get it.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Don't know why that muslim women's league article is 404'd.

But, if you type: An Islamic Perspective on Violence Against Women, into google, you'll get it.

edit on 21-6-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Works fine for me when I type it in Google here in the UK.

www.mwlusa.org...&harrassment/violence.html But as you can see click the link here and it is indeed 404d!

Could it be a regional issue?

This is what comes up in case you are interested.

"An Islamic Perspective on Violence Against Women

by Muslim Women's League
March 1995

While women in many parts of the world have made advances in areas previously closed to them, the problem of violence against women remains pervasive. Unfortunately, this violence takes many forms and occurs across national, cultural, racial, and religious borders.

Islam condemns all forms of violence against women. The basic Islamic premise of equality between women and men cannot be achieved so long as violence against women persists.

In pre-Islamic Arabia violence against women began at birth in the form of female infanticide. Islam prohibited the practice of female infanticide. Not only did the Quran prohibit this practice, it also mocks those who view the birth of a girl child with contempt. (Quran 16:58-59).

Another common form of violence against women is that committed by husbands on their wives. Islam requires that husbands treat their wives with respect and it prohibits any form of physical or emotional abuse. The Quran requires that spouses treat each other with love and mercy. (Quran 30:21). Moreover, the Quran repeatedly warns against the use of injurious statements by a husband against his wife. (Quran 58:2-4).

Rape, unfortunately, remains a common form of violence against women. In addition, the woman is often blamed for being the victim of rape. Islam views rape as a violent crime against the victim, against society, and against God. The perpetrator has committed a crime and hence is morally and legally responsible. The victim is an unwilling partner in the sex act and thus bears neither blame nor stigma. To either ostracize or condemn the victim because she was compelled to engage in sexual intercourse is against the laws of Islam as the victim was an unwilling, and therefore, a blameless participant.

In addition to the violence that women are subjected to during times of peace, women are particularly vulnerable during times of war. Islam condemns violence against women no matter what the circumstances. War is no exception. Prophet Muhammad was strict in ensuring that noncombatants, primarily women and children, were not harmed during war time.

Female genital mutilation, another form of violence against women, has no basis in Islam. Rather, it is a cultural practice which must be eliminated through education and the empowerment of women.

Likewise, forced prostitution is another form of violence against women with no basis in Islam and which must be eradicated through the empowerment of women.

Islam's mandate of equality between women and men necessitates that all forms of violence against women be eradicated, for so long as women suffer abuses, women cannot achieve their full potential as free and equal members of society."

Reply to post by Misbah

' When islam gave the women right to speak out and be a part of society 1400 years ago...woooosh, ok, i have read this whole thread and dont post much but this one line grabbed me, and 'grab' is such a nasty little word isn't it, you quote your perfected one to the point of someone delusional, where did your women aquire the right to speak before 1400 hundred years ago, perhaps the same way we do today by opening our mouthes when we are born, doesn't matter who your god is or any other mans, you are obviously a man, ebcause no woman would ever condem there own kind to you and your perfected ones blighted imagination, peace be upon you both.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by dollukka
I know there is peaceful muslim families and marriages where husband and wife are treating each other equal. But the majority of muslim believers takes Quran literally ( as it should be according to Quran ) specially in middle east and this domestic violence is everyday fact and not at all as this commentator suggest.. that is only to beautify their own country and accusing US for their numbers. Pretty much similar to what Iranian president said that they do not have homosexuals ( they hang them ) and doomed US as having them.. etc etc..

What really upsets is that there is no rights for women ( you cant say they have rights when there is need of two woman voice over one if legal matter ) they are property like a dogs, goats and automobiles like in that comparison there.. How can modern man compare woman to property like a car when man has a steering wheel to ? This is outrageous ! ok i forgot this is not a modern society.

More "unspoken" "hidden" wife beatings
Warning dont look you might not like what you see

edit on 20-6-2013 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2013 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

What's extra helpful about this is when a kid sees it. Ugh. I was working for a family whom I assumed was Muslim many years ago. The man threw pepper in his wife's eyes before beating her. I never went back. I was an adult and it scared me so imagine her two kids who were sitting right there. She was humiliated in addition to likely injured.

It's outdated yet because a bible says its ok it justifies it. At this point in my life I'd probably use that stick to fight back but younger women or those who have had all hope removed don't think like that (or can't afford to think like that). Men are stronger than women, and this was exploited back when these texts were written IMO.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by 23432

 

It doesn't matter what faith you are, same laws have to apply to all or none. Without that basic tenant justice cannot be seen to be done. Hence anarchy would ensure.

This already happens to all British Citizens & Residents alike . Perhaps you are under the impression that a Sharia abiding muslim is exempt from British Law . ( Common Law + Commercial Law ) . This is not the case at all . If A Sharia Law abiding person of UK injures another UK person who doesn't abide by Sharia Law then the Magistrates are the only option available to parties concerned .

What would happen if for some reason under certain circumstances Sharia law was applied to a U.K national(Non Muslim), would he/she be required to comply with the judgment of the non lawful court?

Absolutely not applicable to a non muslim also it requires the consent of the defendant as well as the plaintiff . Sharia Law doesn't have Jurisdiction over those who don't consent to be ruled by it . Therefore no Judgments can be made against those who do not consent to be judged by Sharia Law Courts .

You see the problem, there can be only one set of laws for the land. Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and all other religions must abide by these same laws i'm afraid!

We already all abide by the same Law in UK . Common Law & Commercial Law are still in effect as far as I know and the population by and large consented for it too .Those muslims who want to be ruled by Sharia Law are the Amish of the muslim world .

Ask any Judge! They don't care what colour, creed or faith you are, just what is in there rule book!

edit on 21-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

Common Law and Commercial Law ( i.e Admiralty Law ) Courts are what we have available to us all in UK and %99.5 of us are content with it .
I really don't see a future where this situation is going to change .
Handfull of muslims wanting their non binding Sharia Law Court which is not going to effect anyone but the ones who chose it .
Sounds perfectly democratic to me .
I am still waiting to hear your opinion of the video that I've put up .

reply to post by andy06shake


Well, I got 404'd again, sorry ,when I click that link. But the title works for anyone else getting 404'd!

Page Not Found

The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please try the following:

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.
Click the Back button in your browser to try another link.
Use a search engine like Google to look for information on the Internet.

Did you watch your own video? What, did you read the title and think, ":O :O :O :O TIME 2 POST DIS ON ATS 4 A JUICY THREAD FULL OF IMBECILITY!!!!!!!!" because, you, sir, have won that game.

I actually watched the vid and read the subtitles. Basically, the guy is saying if you're wife is disobedient, don't beat her with a stick, and don't leave bruises or marks on her.

HURP DURP OH MY GORSH HE IS NOT ENDORSING VIOELANCE AGANST WOMANZ?! BUT DAT DOESN'T HELP ME PUSH MY BIGOTED AGENDA!!!

He also goes to say that a woman is beaten in America once every 12 seconds, and the ratio of women dying to beatings in the west is much higher than in Islamic countries. I haven't confirmed this statistic, nor do I much care to. You can't justify misogyny, but at least they address it rather than sweep it under the rug and point fingers at others.

reply to post by Dianec


I was wondering, did you read Andy06's post above which perfectly demonstrates that the Quran does not support violence against women?

I too worked for a family who I assumed were Muslim ( I was right) quite a few years ago in an ICU as a nurse. I was in my early 20's and shockingly naive. The elderly Muslim male patient was ventilated but awake therefore unable to speak verbally, only able to communicate with gestures etc. Looking back the other nurses on the unit, and myself until i woke up, were shockingly prejudiced against him, interpreting his every gesture towards us ( females ) and the doting female members of his family by his bedside, as being demanding and based on his perceived superiority towards us as a man. There was a great deal of resentment from us when he asked for our help, with a 'your not going to get away with women running round after you here' attitude.
When he eventually got off the ventilator, he was the sweetest, kindest man you could imagine, grateful for every help and, well, just normal. That's why his family doted on him - they loved and supported him. He just hadn't been able to express that in a non verbal way. I was, and am ashamed of the way I and others behaved.

I grew up a lot after meeting that patient and it taught me a huge lesson in not judging or making assumptions about people based on their perceived religion. I never forgot that lesson either. I wonder about the other nurses....

The man you worked for who threw pepper into the eyes of his wife...disgusting. I can guarantee there are people in UK, USA, Europe, everywhere, doing similar and worse things to their wives and children every day, people of every creed, colour or religion. Muslim and non Muslim. It never pays to make assumptions.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

According to Your video, the Rod is not to be used for violence, only fair punishment under extreme circumstances that call for it. It's the Exact same with disciplining a bad kid according to your video ( which we dont know is accurate )

Just wow....

What gives you the right to discipline anyone, apart from your own child ? Extreme circumstances that call for it ?? This implies that you are still the master of that person and if you deem it necessary, you can discipline her?


I think you went too far with comparison to a child. I guess you showed your features.

There is a line you dont cross when spanking a child.. thats the same thing they are saying these Muslim men have to conciser

This also shows you a bit...you being apologetic about this, shows that you actually, and you already stated, don't see anything wrong with this.

I doubt any normal women want to be beaten with a stick...whether it's skin deep or hurts to the bone. Try it on your wife/girl and let us know the results. Remember to use a stick...

...and comparing this to be same as disciplining a child...really man...that's so raw.

Where is that class on reading comprehension I need to start giving out to people again?

I was not defending a religion that advocates violence. I was not defending hitting a woman ( for any reason except self defense) I was saying That's what the Video was saying. I am not part of that religion and I do Not advocate violence for violence's sake. It's like any other religion or form of government - they have the right to believe any way they choose to believe - you may think it's wrong, but they still have the right to believe it. Of course I did call into question the authenticity of the information in the video.

You know.. it really ticks me off that you got stars for that post.. shows how many other people need to learn reading comprehension too.

yaaaaawwwwnnnn... yet another dull propaganda film ...

domestic violence occurs globally and in all cultures .. look at the culture there in the u.s with the large number of battered women and abused children every year .. but guess because the u.s is a christian country its ok to overlook and write off domestic violence there ...

reply to post by 23432


So please tell me something then, if the Muslim people attending and abiding by the judgement of these Sharia law councils are under no obligation to do so since decrees they issue are in no way bound by the law of the land and are in fact considered unlawful, what's the point in having them in the first place?

Why not just be happy to follow the same laws as the rest of us? Specific religious groups cannot in all seriousness expect to have one set of rules for them and another for the rest of the population! Any and all laws in the UK need to go through parliament or the house of lords. That's the law im afraid!

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

You and I rarely see eye to eye on anything, but a star for your post.

I watched the video. It attempts to educate Islamic men to be less brutal to their wives, to apply the sanction of beating as rarely as possible. At one point the presenter even recommends 'beating with a handkerchief'.

Considering that the Koran mandates wife-beating, and no Muslim can argue that any part of the Koran is wrong or false, this video is actually an honest attempt to ameliorate the problem. They're getting as close to saying 'don't beat' as possible without offending the ultra-conservative Wahabi mullahs who are the moral arbiters of Saudi Arabian society.

Besides, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. As the presenters in that video quite correctly point out, the USA has a major problem with domestic violence. A woman is beaten every 15sec in the USA. Nearly a third of American women have been beaten by a husband or boyfriend.

Trueman obviously hasn't watched the video, but has chosen to make a vile, disgusting Islamophobic post about it all the same. What a disgrace to Above Top Secret.

Meanwhile, in other news: How to Spank Your Wife – Christian Domestic Discipline.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by 23432

 

So please tell me something then, if the Muslim people attending and abiding by the judgement of these Sharia law councils are under no obligation to do so since decrees they issue are in no way bound by the law of the land and are in fact considered unlawful, what's the point in having them in the first place?

Why not just be happy to follow the same laws as the rest of us? Specific religious groups cannot in all seriousness expect to have one set of rules for them and another for the rest of the population! Any and all laws in the UK need to go through parliament or the house of lords. That's the law im afraid!

edit on 22-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

they have a choice to accept the judgement by the sharia council but if either parties don't, then they can go to the court and get judged by common law. Is that so difficult to understand??

Originally posted by andy06shake

Islam condemns all forms of violence against women.

They can spout that spin all they want but the truth is very different. We've read the quotes from the Qu'ran. We've seen the Imams teaching men how to beat their wives without it showing. It's there. We aren't buying the 'Islam just luv's women' B.S. spin ....

Only as far back as the 1950's men regularly hit women in Hollywood films and no-one batted an eyelid because it was acceptable behaviour at the time.

Beating women with 'rods' was common throughout the Western world until fairly recently too.

I guess men beat women in every culture, whether socially accepted or not. I'm sure that the cultures that we consider as religious and backwards will be stop beatings and all violence being socially acceptable. Eventually...

reply to post by Astyanax

sanction of beating as rarely as possible

Why in the hell is there a sanction "for beating" in the first place!!

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by andy06shake

Islam condemns all forms of violence against women.

They can spout that spin all they want but the truth is very different. We've read the quotes from the Qu'ran. We've seen the Imams teaching men how to beat their wives without it showing. It's there. We aren't buying the 'Islam just luv's women' B.S. spin ....

I haven't read the entire thread, but I am sure there is these excuses:

1 misinformation / misinterpreted
2 Islamophobia
3 only a minority