Christian Ministry Apologizes To LGBT Community And Halts Operations

Awesome! They admit that they were wrong. They apologize. GOOD FOR THEM!
It wouldn't surprise me to see them in the future helping the LGBT community in some way.
They've been wanting to help people ... and now they can help those who have been
most hurt by their actions in the past.

Excellent news! Glad you posted it.

They should apologize. The only cure for homosexuality is the same cure as for any other sin: Repentance, redemption, and the regeneration of the believer. The cure ISN'T some course you give somebody for weeks and weeks, and try psychological, emotional, and physical manipulation of the individual.

That being said, if they're referring to this one particular church as having "treated the LGBT community hurtfully", that would be understandable. But I believe I saw Church (with a capital C), which seems to imply that the whole Church of Christ is hurting homosexuals.

If you're being hurt by anything we say because you're gay, I'm sorry that you're offended. What I'm not and will never be sorry for is calling a spade a spade. Scripture says homosexuality is a sin. Period. It's no better than any other sin in the eyes of God, and I will treat it as such. Christ calls us to do this, and the Church shouldn't buckle under the pressure of homosexuals and their agenda.

In the end, Christ loves you, and so do I. But what I can't do is turn a blind eye and accept what is worldly or sinful as being a "normal lifestyle."

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
The only cure for homosexuality is the same cure as for any other sin: Repentance, redemption, and the regeneration of the believer.

That's exactly what Exodus International "preached"... And now, they've said they were wrong and are closing down.

I thought people here knew why they were, or failing that, I thought they would look into it to get their facts straight. I guess I was wrong.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Oh. I apologize for my mistake then. I assumed this was another one of those "gay camps" or whatever where you go to, live in awful condition, and are strained and tortured until you somehow come to the conclusion that you don't want to engage in homosexuality anymore more.

With that, I fail to see why there's a problem here, or why they had to apologize. Now, if it's a "pray the gay away" type deal, I have a problem with that. That would imply you can be saved by just closing your eyes really tightly and praying for hours a day. That's not how it works.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


I know what you mean. Whenever I see someone at a restaurant eating ham or shellfish, I point out to them that they are committing a sin. I will not turn my back on it, or accept it as normal, because scripture says it is a sin.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Considering ham and shellfish is only forbidden in Mosaic Law, I fail to see what that has to do with anything in discussion here.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Didn't Jesus pare down all those Levitical, Mosiac laws into just 2 laws for all Christians to follow?

Matthew 22:
6 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

When did it change?

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
With that, I fail to see why there's a problem here, or why they had to apologize.

They apologized because they realized they were WRONG, just as you are. Maybe someday you'll see that you are wrong and you'll apologize, too. Of course, you're just one person and are entitled to your opinion. This was a Christian Ministry and the largest "ex-gay" ministry in the world. Many of their members committed suicide when they couldn't get "cured".

They didn't apologize because they HAD to. They apologized because they realized how wrong they were and how many people they hurt with their judgments.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Considering ham and shellfish is only forbidden in Mosaic Law, I fail to see what that has to do with anything in discussion here.

So is homosexuality.

reply to post by windword


Christ fulfilled the Law and the prophets, not destroying them or morphing them, but He Himself became the Law. In the days of old, the way to God was through obeying the Law. But in Christ fulfilling the Law, the way to God is through Christ.

His "two commandments" are basically a shortened version of the Ten Commandments (the Ten Commandments can essentially be summarized by Christ's two commandments during His Mount Olivet Discourse).

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You're confusing everything then. I didn't say THAT was the way to cure homosexuality. I just said that "if they were manipulating the homosexual people, they should apologize", but you have that confused as being the same as "repent, redemption, and regeneration." They're not the same thing.

Repentance, redemption, and regeneration doesn't lead to suicide. By the grace of God, through faith in Christ, you are saved. I just spoke a couple of days ago with a young man who became a Christian and renounced his homosexual lifestyle. It works, because Christ's power washes away all sins.

What these people were doing was clearly wrong. If it was leading people to kill themselves, they should have to do a lot more than apologize.

reply to post by kaylaluv


8 But we know that the law is good, provided one uses it legitimately. 9 We know that the law is not meant for a righteous person, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching 11 based on the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was entrusted to me. (1 Timothy 1:8–11)

This is one of Paul's letters. Paul was the one apostle who was most like Christ. In fact, he is widely regarded in the Church as being the greatest Christian to have ever lived. Having had direct experience in the teachings of Jesus, he (like the other apostles) would all know, understand, and teach the same tenants of Christ's ministry.

This includes homosexuality.

And guess what?

Paul didn't live during Old Testament times or under Mosaic Law (only except before he gave his life to Christ).

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by windword

 

Christ fulfilled the Law and the prophets, not destroying them or morphing them, but He Himself became the Law. In the days of old, the way to God was through obeying the Law. But in Christ fulfilling the Law, the way to God is through Christ.

His "two commandments" are basically a shortened version of the Ten Commandments (the Ten Commandments can essentially be summarized by Christ's two commandments during His Mount Olivet Discourse).

And yet, homosexuality is not mentioned in any of the 10 commandments...

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

8 But we know that the law is good, provided one uses it legitimately. 9 We know that the law is not meant for a righteous person, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching 11 based on the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was entrusted to me. (1 Timothy 1:8–11)

This is one of Paul's letters. Paul was the one apostle who was most like Christ. In fact, he is widely regarded in the Church as being the greatest Christian to have ever lived. Having had direct experience in the teachings of Jesus, he (like the other apostles) would all know, understand, and teach the same tenants of Christ's ministry.

This includes homosexuality.

And guess what?

Paul didn't live during Old Testament times or under Mosaic Law (only except before he gave his life to Christ).

edit on 20-6-2013 by FollowTheWhiteRabbit because: (no reason given)

The word "homosexuality" wasn't even in existence during that time, so someone is interpreting here. How do we know for sure that he didn't mean pedophilia, or men having sex with male prostitutes - instead of two consenting adults having a loving relationship?

reply to post by kaylaluv


Actually, it is.

"You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you."

Homosexuality is fornication or sexual immorality. God ordains marriage between a man and a woman, and He ordains sex to be between a husband and wife. That is what He commanded. By going against what He commanded, even worse, KNOWINGLY going against what He commanded, you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments tell us that those under the Law must "keep the commands of the Lord", which includes His commands between male and female relations, and how He commanded male and female to be beholden to one another and "be fruitful and multiply".

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

"You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you."

What commandments did he give to them?

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

I fail to see where shrimp and lobster eating or homosexual love falls into these commandments.

reply to post by kaylaluv


The word for homosexual (that is used in my translation, my translation is the Holman Christian Standard) is a more modern translation, but is strictly translational. That is, it is one of the accurate translations available that still retains an ability to understand what is being read.

No, the word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the Bible in any way shape or form except by translation. But neither do the words "Trinity" or "Rapture", and yet we know they're in the Bible, don't we?

But, here's why the concept of homosexuality is in the Bible:

Paul used the word "arsenokoites" to describe homosexuality in two passages, one being the one I gave to you. Vines, a Greek translator who published a Greek dictionary for the Bible (stemming from the Septuagint) and others say this is the first case of this word ever being used to describe homosexual behavior.

But the Apostle did coin many terms in the New Testament. Almost 180 that I know of. That's not uncommon for such a well educated man for that day like Paul. Vines points out that the word is a compound made up of "arsen" which means "male" and "koite" which means "bed", with it referring to a bed used in a sexual way. We get the word "coitus" from it. Vines makes the argument that you cannot easily take compound words and create a word with explicit meaning.

However, this overlooks a critical point: They fail to mention that the Bible, during the day of Paul in the first century, for his readers, was the Septuagint, which was the Greek translation of the Hebrew. It's important because if you look at the Septuagint's translation of Leviticus 20:13, which is one condemning verse against homosexuality, the compound word that Paul uses is found.

The text is plain as day: Arsen and koite are side by side, and form the homosexual term Paul used.

So, this word translates to "homosexuality", because there is literally no other word in the English language you can use that is close enough to the original Greek. This word literally means "homosexual behavior" by means of implying "two men having sexual intercourse in a bed."

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Actually, it is.

"You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you."

Homosexuality is fornication or sexual immorality. God ordains marriage between a man and a woman, and He ordains sex to be between a husband and wife. That is what He commanded. By going against what He commanded, even worse, KNOWINGLY going against what He commanded, you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments tell us that those under the Law must "keep the commands of the Lord", which includes His commands between male and female relations, and how He commanded male and female to be beholden to one another and "be fruitful and multiply".

Hmmmm..

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Nope, nothing in there about marriage only being between a man or a woman, or about homosexuality.

reply to post by windword


This commandment tells us to keep God's commands. God made male and female for the person of marriage, sex, having children, and having a family. Period. Nowhere in the Bible does God command "I made them male and female, but there's a few males I made that like other males, so that's fine."

No. It's explicit. God commanded men to marry women, and women to marry men. God commanded for men and women to procreate and multiply.

By going against these commands, you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments.

Not like it matters anyways, considering we aren't under Mosaic Law, so this entire point is rather moot.

reply to post by kaylaluv


ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

So, explain to me how you can worship God as the one and only God, and yet break His commands?

You kind of can't.

If you go against His commands, you break this commandment.