How sad that Christians reject the good news that Jesus gave.

Originally posted by RAY1990

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by RAY1990

 

Everything is equal and comes from the one source, I mean... how can you measure holiness?

Everything originated from the same source, but it didn't remain with the first source. It split when one of God's creations decided to rebel against God and create his own path and followers.

And who would this other source be... the devil, diablo or lucifer as some named him? the one of the morning star?

You are telling me an all powerful all knowing Deo somehow made a mistake... again?

Just like Cain and Abel's little problem? or the great serpent upon on the tree of life?

Please if you can, elaborate exactly who or what this god you believe in is or capable of, the books of history are really misleading to me.

P.S.

Greatest I Am... I would agree I am not a believer, but I am somewhat spiritual.

www.youtube.com...



There are many of us.
This bishop is worth listening to if you have the time.

www.youtube.com...

If his ideas take off, there may even eventually be a church that I would recommend but just to appease our natural grouping or tribal instincts.

This is a bit longer.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

reply to post by RAY1990

That was in reply to a comment made about idols and false worship... It has always bugged me this one because how can christians justify this when they idolize the cross he died on?

We don't worship the cross, we worship the one who was nailed to it. What we honor is his sacrifice, he offered his soul up to ransom our own.

This is what the system of sacrifice was created for, blood of the innocent for the blood of the guilty, but it wasn't just the blood, the soul is in the blood. That is why christians and jews are forbidden to consume blood or strangled things.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Why, if it was rebellion, has God rewarded that rebel by giving him dominion over the earth and the power to deceive us all?

Look around you. God has allowed a lot of evil to happen in order to get us to understand what's good and why we should turn to him to keep this evil from penetrating us while we are here.

Satan, Lucifer, Devil (he has many names) only has dominion over this world until God decides to end it and then he'll destroy Satan and the earth for having been corrupted.

Jesus said there would be suffering. Jesus said the world hated him, so we're not to focus on the worldly. He told us the world would hate us to for not participating in it and following him. He never said it would be easy. He said to be patient and call upon the Holy Spirit for comfort until he returns to straighten it out and take control away from Satan.

In God's eyes a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. We have no way of knowing what his time schedule is for sure, but he told us to look for the signs. Many of those signs are coming to light out of the Middle East, where Jesus will ultimately make his return to set up his Millennial Kingdom and then replace it with a permanent one.

Don't be deceived by thinking that God won't be seen by the whole world when he returns, because he'll make himself known to everyone when he does. If you see the deceiver show up performing signs and wonders (which the Bible says he will do before Jesus returns), don't be sucked in. He doesn't have the ability to make the grand entrance that Jesus will when he returns. Until the entire world witnesses the sky lighting up, the heaven and earth shaking and the Mt. of Olives split in two, you're only witnessing the deceiver who will come to declare himself as God before the real God takes him out of the way.

reply to post by Greatest I am

I have been trying to get you to adhere to the words of Jesus.

I already do. If you were, you'd quit practicing mysticism that leads to lower level spirits filling your head instead, which contradict the words of Jesus.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by RAY1990

 

That was in reply to a comment made about idols and false worship... It has always bugged me this one because how can christians justify this when they idolize the cross he died on?

We don't worship the cross, we worship the one who was nailed to it. What we honor is his sacrifice, he offered his soul up to ransom our own.

This is what the system of sacrifice was created for, blood of the innocent for the blood of the guilty, but it wasn't just the blood, the soul is in the blood. That is why christians and jews are forbidden to consume blood or strangled things.

I'm cool with that

Each to their own

But I honestly believe myself that you should not worship him either but just have the deepest regards, respects and love for what he done. I believe we should if anything worship the goodness of people and condemn the badness, it is my belief that every living thing is sovereign but we have a gift of a higher level of understanding.

We should use that understanding as our faith and use it to respect all/everything and in turn create "love".

Sacrifice is a horrible and horrendous act unless the one you sacrifice is yourself. I myself would do the same Jesus done for my fellow brothers and sisters, it is right and fitting to sacrifice yourself for the better of humanity.

reply to post by Deetermined

Look around you. God has allowed a lot of evil to happen in order to get us to understand what's good and why we should turn to him to keep this evil from penetrating us while we are here.

Only man has commited evil and it is man that allows others to do it... I see it as a cop out to see it any other way just to justify letting such things happen and continue.

Edit

That was a snip from your 2nd from last post, not cherry picking or anything

reply to post by Sparta

Originally posted by Sparta

Written in a time when actual slaves were bought and sold, and literately had masters which demanded to be called such.

And yet he said nothing against it.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Actually Christ did promote love and peace, but did not cause wars. According to the story he even gave his life to prevent one, when he freely let himself be captured.

The Religion that say they follow his way.... Well you know what they do.

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" - Jesus Christ
(Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

And that was not the only time he said something violent...

By the way, The Book of Revelations talks about "God" (the so-called and self-proclaimed God) and "Jesus" starting a war with Earth sending angels to bring diseases and destruction.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Anyone who believes in Hell, Eternal Torture of the Wicked, or Eternal Destruction of the Wicked, has missed the mark. God's Will and God's Plan are to save, sanctify and glorify each and every human being. Many scriptures support this, and I have over seventy just a copy/paste away.

Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe - I Timothy 4:10.

Daniel 12:1-3

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

Not true, you don't read scripture in context or you couldn't possibly come to the conclusion that there will be no punishment when it has been established there shall and it will never end.

Mark 9:42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where:

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

Isaiah 66:24

24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Transgression = sin = wrong doing. Sin against the Lord Jesus Christ (who is speaking in the entire chapter of Isaiah 66), and it's eternal punishment.

How do you sin against the Lord? You blaspheme the Holy Spirit, his Spirit, or you scoff and make fun of God. Seen a lot of people do that here on ATS.

Lonewolf, I didn't quote all your post, as I wanted some focus. You say I don't read Scripture in context, but I see that after offering 70+ texts, you think 3 verses of Daniel negates my position, even though it seems to contradict the Scripture that I did quote. Do you not see a problem there? Perhaps "Everlasting" is not quite that, but only "Age-Lasting." Some time in Strong's or Young's will resolve this. Now back to context - my context is this, that EVERY interpretation must align with the plain statement that God will become All in all. If any are left dead in the grave, if any are suffering in Hell or the Lake of Fire, if any are left (for any reason) in a state other than reconciliation with God, then by logic, God can not become All in all. However, the Scriptures teach that He will be, so I say boldly that therefore none will be left dead, in Hell, in the Lake of Fire, or in any state less than full reconciliation. Have you not read the Law of the Jubilee? It states that all who are in bondage will go free at a set time, the blowing of the Jubilee Trumpet. This Law indicates a spiritual reality, and points forward to the blowing of the last Trumpet, at which time, all men will begin to go free (each in his own order) to the inheritance they have in Jesus the Christ. This is God's Will, this is God's Plan, to save all, and the Scriptures spell it out if we can only read between the lines of church tradition. Universalism was orthodox until the Council of Nicaea, which was dominated by the mostly-pagan Constantine. Be careful to note that I am not saying we escape punishment, for many will be tossed into the Lake of Fire. The big bone of contention is whether the LoF is for destruction (by a Creator God? Maybe not...) or to burn away our wood, hay and stubble. God often describes Himself as a fire, a fire which purifies and burns away our dross. You just have to put it together. God's thoughts and ways are not like ours, and that is why He insists that vengeance is His - because He knows how to use it for our own good, not the way we do, exacting revenge with cruelty, or telling someone smugly that they are going to Hell, an eternal punishment for temporal sins, something God's Law never came close to prescribing. If the wages of sin were more than Death, God would have told us so...

reply to post by arpgme


Dude... That's when he returns. That didn't happen yet.

Unless he returned as Muhamed. But I don't think so.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Anyone who believes in Hell, Eternal Torture of the Wicked, or Eternal Destruction of the Wicked, has missed the mark. God's Will and God's Plan are to save, sanctify and glorify each and every human being.

The Universalism heresy you are spreading is a VERY dangerous message that is absolutely wrong and clearly not scriptural.

There is a MASSIVE amount of undeniable evidence that has convinced me without question that this is a LIE deliberately designed to deceive.

Eternity is FAR too long and Heaven far too beautiful to throw your life away because of deception.

God will never FORCE anyone to go to Heaven.

"I'm a gentleman Nick, I'll never force myself on you or anyone. Nick, what would be more unjust and unfair, for me to steal you at the moment of your death and force you to live in my presence and in my will for all eternity. Hell on the other hand is a place where you'll be completely free from all of my "though shalt nots"... FOREVER." The Encounter (Skip to 49 min.)

Both Universalism and Amirault are unquestionably defeated primarily by three large groupings of Scriptures:

● All the many Scriptures which teach there is a place of torment in fire after death awaiting the impure in heart. Sometimes this place is referred to as hell, the fiery furnace, lake of fire, etc. (If all were going to heaven there would be no such place of fiery punishment for some. The truth is there are now people in this horrible place suffering—Judas Iscariot, the people who resided in Sodom when destroyed by fire, etc.)

● All the many Scriptures which teach there are two types of people—the children of God and the children of the devil; the saved and the lost; the righteous and the wicked; the spiritually alive and the spiritually dead; etc. (If all were going to heaven there could only be one type of people—the redeemed, saved, child of God, etc.)

● All the many Scriptures which teach there are conditions, on man’s part, to initially receive and retain salvation after it is received. The conditions for initial salvation are repentance from sin and a submissive faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness and salvation (Acts 20:21; 2 Pet. 3:9; etc.). The conditions for final salvation are endurance to the end and holiness (Mt. 10:22; Heb. 3:14; Rev. 2:10,11; 1 Cor. 15:2; 1 John 2:24-26; Mt. 5:8; Heb. 12:14; etc.). Those same conditions can be refused, resisted, ignored, neglected, etc. by man. See John 5:40; Acts 7:51; James 5:19,20; etc. (If all were going to heaven merely because Jesus died for everyone, then there would be no conditions for either initial or final salvation since Jesus’ death would be that only factor to enter heaven.)

If one would add up the Scriptural evidence from those three groupings against Universalism it would be massive. Hence, Gary Amirault (and all others like him) have to distort, deny, contradict and/or avoid all those Scriptures to embrace the dangerous doctrine that all will go to heaven because Jesus died for everyone.

■ WARNING: Gary Amirault is not correctly handling the Scriptures and, therefore, is spreading a fine-sounding lie (and heresy) as God’s truth to the eternal and spiritual detriment of all those who believe it.

www.evangelicaloutreach.org...

Not sure if this applies, but I've always been disturbed by the tightly insular nature of congregations. They apparently don't accept 'outsiders' with open arms like their supposed role model would, instead requiring memberships to attend. That aspect of modern Christianity is enough to keep me from taking it entirely seriously anymore.
The religion's general PR has certainly been low for a long time.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by arpgme

 

Dude... That's when he returns. That didn't happen yet.

At least you don't deny that this is his doing. You fully understand that you are following a violent entity who most associate with "peace".

Originally posted by EllaMarina
Not sure if this applies, but I've always been disturbed by the tightly insular nature of congregations. They apparently don't accept 'outsiders' with open arms like their supposed role model would, instead requiring memberships to attend. That aspect of modern Christianity is enough to keep me from taking it entirely seriously anymore.
The religion's general PR has certainly been low for a long time.

I totally agree with this.

If god wanted buildings constructed in his name then why wouldn't he/she create them him/herself, I think it should not be a house of god but a house of humanity. Now I know for a fact I could walk into a church/mosque/synagogue tomorrow if it was open... That does not necessarily mean I am welcome there.

That being said I have visited a few religious buildings as I have an interest in history and architecture, I have never been denied access yet and I have been generally well treated, though I have never mentioned my spiritual/religious views. My views if to be put to a word are more similar to a deist.

It might sound contradictory but I support the buildings... a lot of them are really beautiful, I just don't agree with what they stand for.

At the end of the day it should be inclusion regardless of belief and not exclusion due to non belief.

reply to post by Greatest I am


You are certainly antichrist and have no knowledge of the Bible . Every one who does know what Jesus was about and what he said knows that you are against Jesus . So carry on with your Satanic work

reply to post by Greatest I am


Jesus came to free those who seek Him from slavery to this world. But those who seek Him must then become slaves to Him. As Scripture says:

“No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves of God and of money." (Matthew 6:24)

Originally posted by RAY1990

But I honestly believe myself that you should not worship him either but just have the deepest regards, respects and love for what he done.

Before I begin, I know that what you just said was well intended.

But what you said is also completely irrational.

You essentially said, "I don't think I should worship Jesus, but I can respect him as a good moral teacher and social reformer."

Well, if you don't think you should worship Jesus, then you don't think he was God. But if he wasn't God, then everything he taught is absolute insanity. That, or he was a liar.

He would be insane, because he said he was God and wasn't, but thought that he was. He would be a liar, if he said he was a God and knew that he wasn't.

So what you're saying, in essence, is that you have deep respect for either a lunatic or a conman.

The only other alternative is that he was God.

But please, don't boil Jesus down to just a spiritual teacher who died for what he believed in. Because, as you said, if he "died for the good of mankind", then if he wasn't God and our redeemer, why exactly did he die for mankind? If he wasn't God and wasn't our redeemer, then he basically died for either a delusion or a lie.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
So what you're saying, in essence, is that you have deep respect for either a lunatic or a conman.

The only other alternative is that he was God.

Not really, there are many other alternatives, the bible not being 100% true is one.

It could be that Jesus Christ was a real man that taught some spiritual lessons but what the bible says he said or did was not 100% accurate on all cases.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Do you agree that it is quite sad that most Christian tradition and dogma has taught Christians to reject Jesus?

What's sad is that "New Age Christianity" is teaching people to reject Jesus' teachings by practicing mysticism and divination. They are the ones really rejecting Jesus.

Christians believe that Jesus is God, so how are they rejecting him?

How can you be sure they are rejecting Jesus and not just Paul? How can Christians believe in Jesus when they do not really understand what he taught. The bible has layers of understanding. Most use it on a kindergarten level and on that level it does not give off any of the big secrets of how reality works. I only say Merkabah. In the bible and is probably from you point of view "mystic".

There are plans on how to reach soul that is specific to that soul. How can you be sure your road is more efficiant than the ones called mystics? You would probably call me mystic. Labels mean nothing when they are ambigious. Some people become what you call mystic because the other side say HI.

A person who see a car for the first time and have not lived around cars will probably thing it is like magic. But to the one who knows almost every little detail of the car there is no magic or mystery. It just is. There is not mystic or paranormal. Only human ignorance of understanding what is.

Jesus was here and used the butterfly effect to change the whole of humanity and there have been a lot of other souls sent to do the same to further the evolution of humanity. It was never only Jesus who will have fixed everything when the next stage comes. He made his part and others did what they should do. It is a group effort and every one of those souls have been crucial to what is right now.

reply to post by Deetermined

Everything originated from the same source, but it didn't remain with the first source. It split when one of God's creations decided to rebel against God and create his own path and followers.

You are referring to Medieval Lucifer mythology which takes off from certain Old Testament verses but are really just a misinterpretation of what the original biblical writers were talking about.
That misinterpretation gets reinforced by those theorists also misinterpreting Revelation 12 which is also a sort of retelling of ancient mythology. Just as the Lucifer comments in Isaiah was a mythological reference that was well known in ancient Canaan, the Revelation reference was to the then well known story of Marduk and his mother, Damkina.

reply to post by arpgme


I don't just believe the Bible is true, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's true by scrutiny and close examination. The fact that thirteen different men, and many more disciples, would gives up their worldly possessions, go out and travel to the ends of the known world, and willingly give up their lives in peaceful martyrdom for something they either knew was a lie or was a complete delusion does not seem like a viable option.

I don't know one single person who would do all of that for a complete fabrication.

But it's not just what I know to be true, it's what is evident in my life. When your entire being and worldview are turned 180 degrees, and you want to do things you ought to do and want to avoid things you once loved to do, all because of a book you think isn't 100% true, it doesn't take a brilliant mind to know that there are things at work here that are far greater than just blind faith and assumptions.