Extraterrestrial hypothesis vs Jacques Vallee

reply to post by The GUT


Here is another interesting article. This one mentions Valee...

Both Valle (1979) and Meheust (1988) have noticed the parallelism that can be
found between folkloristic motifs, shamanic journeys, and flying saucer
abductions. As in other parts of the world today, the Amazon is constantly
being bombarded by exotic new images and symbols that rapidly intermingle
with traditional beliefs.

I have heard of such stories by Westerners who have taken ayahuasca, Psilocybin
cubensis, or pure dimethyltryptamine. As Valle (1979:209-10) has pointed out,
the UFOs are physical manifestations that cannot be understood apart from
their psychic and symbolic reality. The UFO motif is a subject that should
not be neglected by cognitive anthropologists, depth psychologists, and
people interested in the mythologies of modern man.

The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection

reply to post by FireMoon


From my experience those big, black eyes aren't the way their eyes actually appear.

Those are like sunglasses.
They have (or he had), very blue eyes. Blue like ice chips really.

Just something I wanted to point out. It seems to give them a more "personable" persona, when you see them for what they really are.

Crazy talk aside, good post. I starred it.

Hello all, I am currently reading the posts here and enjoying the open minded debate and idea-ball tossing. Exactly why I made this video, to present an often overlook or ignored "third argument" that media seems very uninterested with sharing with the masses. I find that odd since Vallee is a giant in more than a few areas of science.

I am going to slowly work through replying to many posts here and apologize for not doing so early. I was not expecting this video to get on the front page of Ebaums world and get over 20 thousand views there, and another 10,000+ on my channel. Its been a wacky two days.

This has only ever happened with one other of my videos in the last few weeks titled "is reality real". Both the Vallee vid and the Reality vid were tweeted by one of the game developers for Black-Ops (Josh Olin) and both made front page of Ebaums. If interested in watching the "reality video", I personally think both concepts can be attached to each other without too much difficulty.

While I slowly wake up, have coffee and reply, perhaps you may enjoy that vid as well.



I am sorry to have made this thread and not handled taking a better hand at being a good host to it. So please try and forgive me, its been a wild ride the last two days. I am going to try and reply to as many posts here as possible. HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by The GUT
Mr Mask!! GREAT to see you, sir!

I'm out the door, but I'll be back to this thread. In the meantime...

Mr Mask: Conspiracy Savant

Dear MR GUT.

Awww giant hugs to you! Tho the time between our last interaction is a bit lengthly, I assure you it has not reduced my respect and love for you as a poster here (or as a 'possible' human on Earth). Good to see you. It always is.

That thread made me laugh and get all mushy inside. Thanks man. Thank you deeply.

I have been ok and still read ATS daily. And I am so glad you found this thread because I remember not too long ago you making a thread about the Nut-n-Bolt hypothesis, asking who here has drifted towards it over time.

I remember thinking "He feels like I do" or at least thinking "I bet he feels very similar".

You have always been a great guy in our interactions, and you post great material everywhere you leave your digital footprints.

I send you love and best wishes my friend. BIG HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by freelance_zenarchist
That was an entertaining video (well the audio portion of it anyway).

Some constructive criticism: This is a good way to expose the little kiddies in the COD/YouTube community to Jacques Vallee, but I'm afraid the Call of Duty footage is going to turn off or confuse alot of people here.

Why did you choose to present the information in this way?

Thank you sir!

I shall answer the questions on the material's format. I run a small channel called "CampKillCommentary" that is focused on video game commentary. The video was not "created" for ATS but ATS was considered highly when it was being recorded.

Most my videos are laced with swearing and/or lowbrow humor. I removed that from this vid knowing I'd share it with my favorite website ATS. But I couldn't remove the videogame part, cus that's my bread and butter. I get a lot of subscribers and views and make these vids mostly for those people.

But when I make a science based one (not all my content is science), I post it here.

As for turning off or confusing people anywhere, I do that often with or without video game footage lol. But the channel has grown quickly in the 3 months since its birth, and I must consider my subscribers when making this videos.

HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by JayinAR
I loved the video, man.
You're a damn good lyricist!

Awww THANK YOU SIR!!! Knowing a respected ATS family member as yourself thinks that, is awesome. You made my morning coffee taste better. Smiles make coffee taste better. Well, thats a hypothesis of mine anyways.

I love you bro!

HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by JayinAR
Also, I don't find the info all that controversial. I personally prefer the ET hypothesis, but am completely open to an interdimensional hypothesis as well. And honestly, either way you look at it, the results are the same.

They display some snazzy tech regardless and aren't from HERE.

The video is just a skin deep scratch on Vallee's work. Some of his work suggests its exactly different in the sense that these things "may" be from "HERE". Indigenous to our planet as any other species here.

When considered and weighed, that changes much of the game if true. But Vallee allows all sorts of possibilities. All but one "UFOs are 100% explained".

HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by thishereguy
i don't know how flag , so i just starred ya.

cool vid , liked it alot.

i have oppinions on this UFO/aliens deal, but after getting flamed and trolled so much from others around me , i give up expressing it.but hey, you gave me more to think about.

THANK YOU SIR!

I'd love to hear what got you attacked or flamed here. If you ever wish to share with someone who will NOT attack or flame, PM me.

MM

reply to post by Mr Mask
You're not only hyper-talented, but a very sweet soul to boot. Possibly human, but that's a stretch.

I've played the vid, bw, in the background more than once just to groove to it as I surfed threads.

In addition I'm now the proud & momentarily newest suscriber to CampKillCommentary.

Hey, let's play that sucka one mo' time. Wake & Bake yo' mind while shaking yo' behind.

reply to post by Mr Mask


Glad to see ya, man! And thanks for the kind words.

When you get a spare minute or two can you go into a little more detail about Vallee's claim to have seen an artificial satellite in orbit before we had rockets capable of putting them there?

Thanks in advance!
I am curious if this is the infamous Black Knight he is speaking of.

Been seeing talks about abductions. So I guess I might throw my opinion on it.
I have never really been into abduction cases.

I do recall one theory from Carl Sagan said in one book I read from, saying how abduction cases are actually raped victims, and the alien abduction scenario is somewhat like intrusive memories, however the sub-conscious disguises it as something not usually seen.
Not only that, with most stereo types about aliens being sex crazed, most people will end being very superstitious bout being alien probed, that they could even dream it if scared enough. Hell it nearly plays out like some religious scenario in a weird way.

Even if there has been abductions, their seems to be no permanent damage caused, and they seem to get what they want what ever it is, without force.

But like I said, I'm far from being into abduction scares, but I guess that my two cents.

reply to post by Specimen


I think the whole "anal probe" thing is way overblown and is more of a joke than anything else. It really surprises me that Sagan would say such a thing.

You should look into the phenomena known as The Oz Factor or High Strangeness if you are interested.

reply to post by JayinAR


I don't blame sagan for such a view. The mind can be a very powerful thing.

.

reply to post by Specimen


To that I agree, but to suggest all abduction cases are simply rape cases your mind has tricked you into thinking they were something else ignores a LOT of evidence. Sagan always seemed more diligent.

Things like car horns blaring outside the house for no reason, lights flickering, and or blowing out, etc. Often times with witnesses to these events. Or even stranger events...

reply to post by JayinAR


Like I said, I m far from being into abduction cases. And even so, I would like to see a consistency in alien abduction cases. Sure some could be real, while a majority could be utterly made to be false, while vice versa.

If i chose to ignore the evidence and statements, then that would be of my own ignorance as well as arrogance. It just abduction case rarely have caught my eye.

reply to post by Specimen


Yep. We are well served to listen and be open to all ideas. Especially when the ideas are being presented by folks like Sagan and Vallee.

I was just a little shocked to see Sagan be a little lazy with this one.

reply to post by JayinAR


Well it was said in one of his books that it was a possible explanation. Don't know if that his view entirely on the subject, but it was probably in the back of his head.

Occasionally, I get a letter from someone who is in 'contact' with aliens. I am invited to ask them anything. And over the year's I've prepared a little list of questions. The aliens are very advanced remember. So I ask things like, 'Please provide a short proof of Fermat's Last Theorem'. I write out the simple theorem equation with the exponents. It's a simulating exercise to think of questions to which no human today knows the answers, but where a correct answer would be recognised as such. It's even more challenging to formulate such questions in fields other than mathematics. Perhaps we should hold a contest and collect the best responses in '10 Questions to Ask an Alien'. - Carl Sagan, "The Demon Haunted World", p.95

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Glad to see ya, man! And thanks for the kind words.

When you get a spare minute or two can you go into a little more detail about Vallee's claim to have seen an artificial satellite in orbit before we had rockets capable of putting them there?

Thanks in advance!
I am curious if this is the infamous Black Knight he is speaking of.

HELLO! I am currently a lil busy and can't reply to each and every post here yet, but I can surly help you with what you ask because its information you should have as soon as possible.

Ok, first Vallee's team is "said" to suspect the object was a natural object. Many UFO-sellers have tied the idea to UFOs and/or the BLK-KNT, but do so by stretching truth and fact. Here are some truths and facts.

Like said, I am busy at the moment, BUT a hungry mind seeking answers to questions I have helped cause, NEEDS to be addressed quickly and directly. Here is info for you.

In almost every audio interview Vallee speaks of this and here is what he shares.

My first job was at Paris observatory, tracking satellites. And we started tracking objects that were not satellites, were fairly elusive, and so we decided that we would pay attention to those objects even though they were not on the schedule of normal satellites. And one night we got eleven data points on one of these objects--it was very bright. It was also retrograde. This was at a time when there was no rocket powerful enough to launch a retrograde satellite, a satellite that goes around opposite to the rotation of the earth, where you obviously need to overcome the earth's gravity going the other direction. You have to reach escape velocity in the direction opposite the rotation of the earth, which takes a lot more energy than the direct direction. And the man in charge of the project confiscated the tape and erased it the next morning.

So that's really what got me interested. Because up to then I thought, Scientists don't seem to be interested in UFOs, astronomers don't report anything unusual in the sky, so there probably isn't anything to it. Effectively, I was in the same position that most scientists are in today--you trust your colleagues, and because you don't see any reports from credible, technical witnesses, you assume that there is nothing. And there I was with a technical report--I don't know what it was. It wasn't a flying saucer--it didn't land close to the observatory. But still, it was a mystery. And instead of looking at the data and preserving the data, we were destroying it. -Vallee in interview with Conspire.com

Every time he speaks of this satellite he mentions there were more than a few being tracked, and sometimes mentions the one in question was as bright as the star Sirius. He says the info was erased because the Observatory was afraid of "ridicule". Tho Valle never says directly he assumes these things were "craft", one can say he strongly implies it and overly states they were "elusive" and/or "strange".

There is little to no info (data) on this due to it all being erased. Alls we have is the word of this highly respected man, and in no way does a retrograde satellite insist it is artificial. But, Vallee, as I said seems to strongly suggest it in almost every single interview.

Vallee has not done many interviews and has been noted saying many times he dosn't want money for this research (he has a real job) or fame (he thinks fame and notoriety taints and damages good evidence in this area of research).

I hope that helps.

Note that nowhere did I say it was the Black Knight, nor did I say it was. Notice Vallee also can't tell you what it was. No data...all erased.

HUGS!

MM

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Glad to see ya, man! And thanks for the kind words.

When you get a spare minute or two can you go into a little more detail about Vallee's claim to have seen an artificial satellite in orbit before we had rockets capable of putting them there?

Thanks in advance!
I am curious if this is the infamous Black Knight he is speaking of.

Same interview, reply when asked why it was erased.

Vallee: Just fear of ridicule. He thought that the Americans would laugh at us, if we sent it--all of the data on satellites was being concentrated in the U.S. And we were exchanging our data with international bodies. And he just didn't want Paris observatory to look silly by reporting some thing that he could not identify in the sky. [This was in] 1961. Later I found out that other observatories had made exactly the same observation, and that in fact American tracking stations had photographed the same thing and could not identify it either. It was a first magnitude object: it was as bright as [the star] Sirius. You couldn't miss it. It didn't reappear in successive weeks. It's just a little anecdote, but to me that fact that we destroyed it was more important than what we saw. And that reopened the whole question for me: Are there things that scientists are observing and not talking about? And then I started extending a small network of scientists, which is still active, and found that there was a lot of data that was never published. In fact, the best data has never been published. I think a great deal of the misunderstanding about UFOs among scientists is that the scientists have never had access to the best data.

reply to post by Mr Mask


Alien civilizations remaking the universe to an end we will never know. Whether they the ancient themselves, or the future.

The holographic theory has always caught my interest. I do ask my self sometimes if there are multiple copies of ourselves across whatever so called "matrix". Each being different possibilities, and results. I do believe the physical is somewhat written, but the soul is gamer seat, and is real.