Extraterrestrial hypothesis vs Jacques Vallee

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posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Hello ATS. For those who don't know me, I am MR MASK and I am very much into subjects of aliens and UFOs. Having been born to a mother who claims to have witnessed a UFO (with a witness) at a young age, I spent my life seeking answers. Having seen one two years ago myself, my doubts changed instantly.

This video was a labor of love and took me three days to create without sleep (once I am committed to a project I do not sleep until it is done or I am dead) and it is about the theories presented by the world renown scientist Dr Jacques Vallee

A little background on Jacques. He is a french scientist and astronomer who not only worked for DARPA co-developing ARPANET (the precursor to the internet), but has also served as an advisor to NASA, one of the first men to digitally map Mars and also one of the world's leading experts in UFO research with over 5 decades under his belt. There are many more notable achievements of Dr Vallee. Too numerous to track them all down and post here.

His entire philosophy behind aliens and UFOs has earned him both critical acclaim in UFO circles, but also hatred for his radical theories on the origins and nature of the UFO phenomenon as a whole. I do not want to ruin the video for those who are about to watch it by explaining his views, but they will not sit well with many beleivers and skeptics alike.

Dr Vallee has written many books and papers on the subject and this video attempt to briefly cover his views presented in his book "DIMENSIONS: A casebook for Alien Contact" published in 1988 as part one of a trilogy. I highly recommend finding this book legally. But if you can't it is very easy to find a free PDF version online. If you are that type. Tsk tsk.

The video itself is a video game session (as all my videos are) with me commentating over the footage. Most of my videos are laced with vulgarity and lowbrow humor. But knowing I was going to share this here, I kept it clean in case some of you had morals. I really hope you enjoy it.

The music was created by CLASS X COBURG two brothers from Germany who I adore and am lucky enough to have earned their permission to use their music (as in most my videos) and the voice and singing is me.

I post this video to the ATS community knowing it is a subject many of us are interested in. I also hope it produces a debate below. I am well aware that many will have issues with what is presented here. I personally do not and tend to agree with a lot of Vallee's work after seeing a large UFO myself (also with a witness).

Thank you for reading/watching. HUGS!!!



MM
edit on 19-6-2013 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-6-2013 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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i don't know how flag , so i just starred ya.

cool vid , liked it alot.

i have oppinions on this UFO/aliens deal, but after getting flamed and trolled so much from others around me , i give up expressing it.but hey, you gave me more to think about.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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Mr Mask!! GREAT to see you, sir!


I'm out the door, but I'll be back to this thread. In the meantime...

Mr Mask: Conspiracy Savant



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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That was an entertaining video (well the audio portion of it anyway).

Some constructive criticism: This is a good way to expose the little kiddies in the COD/YouTube community to Jacques Vallee, but I'm afraid the Call of Duty footage is going to turn off or confuse alot of people here.

Why did you choose to present the information in this way?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:50 PM
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I loved the video, man.
You're a damn good lyricist!



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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Also, I don't find the info all that controversial. I personally prefer the ET hypothesis, but am completely open to an interdimensional hypothesis as well. And honestly, either way you look at it, the results are the same.

They display some snazzy tech regardless and aren't from HERE.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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At about 4:48 the question is asked; Why does it take millions of visits to study us and do the science? This is exactly the kind of question a scientist like Valee would ask under the presumption that the aliens themselves are like scientists studying a new species, a la Star Trek. But, most likely they have done enough science by now and their motives are non scientific for the most part. They are here for gain. To take from us and benefit themselves. Colonization on a higher level. (Nice Video but the imagery should have varied a bit more)
edit on 19-6-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Great point.
The reasoning is that they have been here forever, "appearing in whatever form we are willing to accept at the time". So, following from there, it is safe to assume they are no longer studying. They are taking.

You can also assume that it isn't very difficult for them to get here.

Plus, Vallee ignores evidence. Testimony from whistleblowers and abductees who clearly state that these things come from other planets.

Of course, the beings could be lying, but there is no way to know that.
It could also be a combination of the two.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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Hello Mr. Mask

I'm one of those guys that believes everything is explainable in human ways. I honestly really liked your video and actually learned a little about Jacque Vallee. Very entertaining, I couldn't stop watching. How about Duke Nukem next time?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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Finally got to settle in and watch the vid. Most excellent, Masktastic. I'm still head-bopping. Bravura. Hope life is treating you well.

No one, it seems, asks more intelligently formed questions or--as you pointed out--has done more legitimate scientific research than Doc Jock.

Erudite ATS member Gortex (I love me some Gortex!) posed the following question in my Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs thread:


I don't know but with this Rosicruscianism link I'm not sure that Vallee isn't mixing business with pleasure and letting belief in the spiritual cloud his scientific mind and creating links where there really aren't any , kind of filling in the blanks of the phenomena with belief if you like.


A great question. My response:



Very possibly. Or, obversely, as I postulated earlier: Maybe it put them in a unique position to extrapolate a theory that inches closer to the "truth."

Doc Jacques continues to command my respect, however I also think it is noteworthy that in both Messengers of Deception and Forbidden Science, II--he leaves ever stronger clues as to how he came to some of his conclusions. He often makes no bones about some of the "restrictions" he faces:


I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the ““solid-state society”” on the distant horizon.

Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.

Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.

www.amazon.com...


He wants to tell us…and he's done the best he can.

On pg 46 of the thread The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs, I attempt to breakdown many of Jacques clues peppered, I feel, throughout Forbidden Science II

Great thread…I hope it doesn't die the death of ignorance..."Where do they come from? Where do they go? Even Jacques Vallee don't know!"



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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Hey Mr. Mask!

Awesome job of making it rhyme and music-i-fying the info! :-)
I confess I had to half-close the lap top as I am not into video games - it was cringey-distracting for me. And I appreciate you considering my delicate sensibilities for a minimum of bleeping. ;-) Seriously. I do appreciate that. My Mom, who is now in the Great Beyond, used to say "There are so many amazing and detailed words in the English language you can use to express yourself - profanity is just lazy..." - I tend to have that drilled into my soul!

As to the content - very nice introduction to Vallee - it encouraged me to go do some reading, as I was aware of him and knew who he was, but wasn't entirely clear on his personal understandings of the data he collected.

I am obviously a nobody in the researcher category, but I do have some personal thoughts to share re: the ET Hypothesis as a general "throw it in the ring and see what happens" way of learning. Obviously I don't know what answers are correct, so this isn't a manifesto or statement of "Fact!" as much as interpretation and statement of the facts that I am aware of, put as concisely as I can...Here goes:

I. There are many documented instances of "high strangeness" around UFO and abduction phenomena.
This includes the appearing/disappearing UFOs, beings walking through walls, paralysis, voices, strange visual phenomena, strange photographic phenomena, etc., etc., etc.
a. Some of this could be due to advanced technology
b. Some of this could be due to nefarious human activity using psyop tech for the purpose of:
1. generating fear and loathing for all things ET to further a false flag agenda & create the ultimate "other"
2. having an excuse to do really illegal and horrible testing on humans and blaming it on "aliens"
3. testing out new technology we have either discovered or back-engineered
4. ? reasons unknown
5. All-of-the-above
c. Phenomena other than "ET" is being mistaken for "ET" - i.e. other paranormal or spiritual "stuff"

II. UFOs do exist - I know because I know - it is within my personal experience - and yes, it did something weird

III. Other documented incidents of strange phenomena not related to UFOs or "aliens," do occur (you may disagree on this, which is fine, but it is part of the logic of the argument). Some of the documentation may not be very scientific, but its out there. These include issues of "consciousness" such as psychic phenomena (telepathy, telekinesis, prognostication, etc.), spooky stuff (a technical term ;-), "angels" - beings that appear and save people, spiritual experiences, the fey folk, etc.

Theory: Some UFO phenomena may very well be ET using advanced technology, OR there is the possibility of time-travellers too, however, or a combination of both. Some of what is interpreted as "UFO" phenomena may be of an entirely different nature and related more to other paranormal or spiritual phenomena (not beings from another physical world, in other words), or nature.

I see no reason for it to be ultimately one or the other - ET alone or paranormal phenomena alone. AND some of the ET tech may seem very paranormal to us if we don't know how it works. In my own very limited personal experience of both types of phenomena - UFO & "paranormal weirdness," I would say they are two very different things indeed. And there is always the potential human element mucking things up with our own unique brand of evil intent - or whatever it may be.

As to the biology of the "ET's" being human-like - that doesn't bother me so much. There are theories that could explain this. Perhaps it is not that they are like us, but that we are like them? So this isn't something that strikes me as a conclusive point against this phenomena being ET, but more interestingly points to very long term historical relationships with this possible ET phenomena, or to theories of panspermia, or possibly even a 'blueprint' woven into the nature of life itself that we have yet to fully unlock (i.e. something in the way DNA happens universally when higher intelligence combined with physical dexterity comes into being - for example, dolphins may be right up there with us on the intelligence side of things, but they are not 'creators' of things, which is the whole physical dexterity part).

SO - there you have it. Sorry for the long-windedness. Thank you for making me think so I could pull those random thought-wisps together.

One final point - everything at this time is theory for those of us who are holding a candle up to the vastness of the universe and trying to find our place in it - perhaps someone has hit the nail on the head or knows a great deal more than we have access to - but for now, I will hold my candle up, and should it get blown out, I'll find another spark to light my mind with possibilities...until then...

peace to you,
AB

edit on 19-6-2013 by AboveBoard because: format won't do "outlines" so I edited, hopefully, for clarity...we'll see...



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard
I see no reason for it to be ultimately one or the other - ET alone or paranormal phenomena alone. AND some of the ET tech may seem very paranormal to us if we don't know how it works. In my own very limited personal experience of both types of phenomena - UFO & "paranormal weirdness," I would say they are two very different things indeed. And there is always the potential human element mucking things up with our own unique brand of evil intent - or whatever it may be.

Hiya AB! Great to see you!! You know that I not only respect you as a quality human being, but also respect your intellect and experiences, even when we differ on interpretation.

Before I address a question based on your comment above, I'll probably need to clarify that I know we live in a vast and probably infinite universe that should harbor other lifeforms somewhere. Do I believe such life is responsible for the reportedly 3-5% of legitimately unexplained sightings--including my own? Though I once did, I'm personally leaning elsewhere these days.

Which brings me to my question: In light of the fact that you've had what you feel like are undeniable experiences in both realms--ETH and Paranormal--doesn't that make you consider that they both might be related to the same phenomena?

What are the odds of experiencing both?

Here's a bear-HUG...did you feel it?


edit on 19-6-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 

Hey-a Back, The GUT! :-)

Thanks for the awesome HUG! I totally felt it and send one back to you!!!

I love the question - and I will do my best to answer it, though it is challenging due to the personal nature of the experiences and the difficulty I have in putting it all into words, as well as the fact that I don't like sharing what will, to some, be worthy of ridicule or rejection. I seriously don't "go there" very often.

Is it possible that something paranormal might call itself "ET?" Well, sure, I guess, and honestly, I don't have all the answers, only a few experiences that I'm basing my theory on.

In a nutshell - there was a qualitative difference in energetic essence between the three kinds of experiences.
(I've had a couple of intense and positive "spiritual" experiences, a couple very negative paranormal experiences, and the "UFO" + a couple of other experiences in this category. I guess I'm a weird-magnet, but not generally - its rare stuff really...)

I can easily say that the positive spiritual experiences were exquisite and transformative (and complicated to tell effectively, so I won't go into them here). The negative stuff had a certain vibration to it that was of a unique "signature" and resonance - I know that sounds vague, but its like a sharp-sour-dark-smokey-metallic sinister scary vibe buzzing underneath for the negative (Bleck - like that gut-wrenching feeling I get when I read about a horrible crime or something - WRONG and fear-inducing - repulsive) versus Absolute Love and Peace, Connection and Grace with no words to compare it to, for the positive (think an amazing piece of deeply felt orchestral music that carries you beyond the notes to a sublime place and then MORE).

Then the "UFO" and "alien" category is oddly different than both of these. Weird but mostly due to it being unfamiliar - it felt...neutral, energetically, for the UFO. It was not interested in me. It was on its own business. I felt zero threat or negative energy. If it hadn't been unfamiliar and done something "impossible" it would have been like watching a plane or helicopter go overhead - interesting but not anything to worry about (though I did get a hilarious intuitive flash later on, when I thought about what could be in the darn thing, of a stereotypical 'alien' in a WWI flight suit - "alien pilot!" LOL! Honestly - just my creative right-brain imagination throwing me a visual pun...) I had one other experience that I don't want to go into (cause this all sounds like the crazy-train and that's just not what I'm about) that was in the same "UFO/ET" category which was pleasantly neutral/mildly positive and not energetically "charged" in any particular direction, but certainly not negative. The negative induces an immediate "NO" and violent SLAM of all mental doors and windows - it is instinctual - I might ask the Light to take it and keep me safe but that's about it. And while I may give the benefit of the doubt to people first, which may seem naive to some, it does not happen with things such as that.

So, that's my answer. The ET / UFO stuff is, in my very limited experience, a whole different feeling, unlike the others. Does that answer make any sense at all? I hope so. I don't want to get into it more deeply than that.
This is hardly stuff that impacts my daily life - I have quite the normal day-to-day reality for a mom of special needs kids - I work part-time, I bake cookies and make dinner, do the laundry and nary a wee beastie to be seen! I realize this has ZERO provability or real relevance for anyone unless they've been in the same size 8 low-heeled black pumps as myself. ;-) I offer it with humility.

Peace to you, The GUT. It is so good to see you again.
- AB



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 07:03 AM
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What's the possibility you have written text from that vid that I could just read?

Sorry, I don't get the video game aspect but even so there's no way I'll be able to process that even with just the audio and music soundtrack. Must be a generational thing.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by AboveBoard
 


Did you have a close encounter, by chance, or was this a first encounter type of event?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by Mr Mask
 


This is one of the most awesome media productions concerning UFOs ever made. For a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the format.

I have to know. Did you originally plan it as a rap? You had me hooked just narrating, but then it kicks in to overdrive with this one rhymed line and then it's becomes sublime.

Masterful, MM.




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 10:55 AM
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I enjoyed the video. Even though I never used to take call of duty seriously considering I would run around aimless stabbing and using dual shotguns.

Anyways, the commentary was great, and provides a lot questions and statements.

I do wonder about the dimensional theory tho. Like for example, I would believe that they are from a very similar plane that we are on, but considering that they may have broken a lot of physical barriers. Like if report are true about ufo appearing an disappearing from an to nowhere, is their machines doing something on a molecular level to be considered dimensional. Like the cloaking device it uses, make it completely vanish to the point where the Predator from the Arnold movie would be jealous. Not only that, ufos are said to be insanely fast and agile to the point its asinine. So they could just be seen for a split second, and if it went to overdrive, it gone when you blink.

Also, I doubt most scouts that fly around of are not capable of dimensional travel, while the much more fortified one possibly could. My real guess is, is that their technology could work on some atomic level(well atomic just sounds super complicated for my definition) to the point it would be considered holographic. That they could have technology interacting with the very code of the universe it self in order to perform such feats?

Personally I think dimensions are much more like highways for traveling across such large distances, without being affected by time in both our an their plane?

I do recall seeing this one episode from stargate sg-1 . Where they travel to a planet and find human survivors. However, these survivors are extremely advanced to the point their technology lets them walk through wall as if they were living projection. I think their technology works on the basis similar to that.

Anyways, great video man.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 


Hey JayinAR - thank you, first of all, for reading my epic-sized post! As for the answer...I was really hoping no one would ask, and debated for a long time whether to mention it in passing. Let's just say I've only told a few people very close to me whom I deeply trust and I feel very self-protective about it. I'm still, years later, trying to figure it out, and I don't know how to explain it in a way that would covey the depth and reality of it.

Sorry to be cryptic. :-( It was an entirely non-threatening thing, respectful, no negative vibe whatsoever, and that's it. Contact, I guess, completely not-sought-out on my part and impossible to prove, so useless to tell except as a "grey area" kind of thing. It just...happened. Absolutely not a dream - I was fully awake and out doing normal things in the world. I don't think or talk about it often as I don't know how to categorize it, other than "okay, that was weird and amazing and no one will ever believe me." Perhaps I'll go back and do some writing on it to sort it for myself, if nothing else. The event didn't scare me at all - lasted all of about twenty minutes - and I have no desire to try and convince people of it, or to make it broadly public. Having people diminish me, and the experience, is too much of a fear. My internal warning bells are pretty strong about that. And in fairness, I would have a hard time believing someone else if they told me the same kind of thing and I didn't know them well enough to judge their sincerity, sanity and honesty - you see?

Thanks again for reading my mega-post!
peace,
AB



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by AboveBoard
 


why wouldn't I, or anyone else, read your posts? You are extremely well spoken! In any event, you are welcome.

May I press a little harder with one more question?

Did your event happen during the day, or at night?

ETA: I can easily understand your reluctance to talk about it. So just disregard my question if it is too personal.
edit on 20-6-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by The GUT
Which brings me to my question: In light of the fact that you've had what you feel like are undeniable experiences in both realms--ETH and Paranormal--doesn't that make you consider that they both might be related to the same phenomena?

What are the odds of experiencing both?

That tends to suggest that the phenomena do not necessarily have the same inherent properties, but only seem to because we perceive and experience them, and we only have very limited ways of doing that. So, yeah, they're similar because they're both baffling to us. Two obviously different boxes could certainly have the same things inside them, and until we open them, they sort of do. The unknown.

And there is still so much we don't know.





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