Is it possible for humans to advance to our technological levels in the ancient past without alien i

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posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Logarock


The evidence suggests that your simple choice just cant explain it all. The evidence does not force one into an ether or here. The reams of history show that advanced cultures brought new methods and technology to other cultures. In some cases history has not quite human persons involved. The question is were the stories, all of them, just exaggerations made for any number of reasons.


Sure it can you simply want to have a more mysterious answer. Which 'reams of history' are you referring to?

The main problem is a complete lack of evidence for these aliens or advanced humans, and for AH a great deal of evidence against the idea that a civ similar to our own(or Atlantist like) was around earlier.

There is also the difficulty of explaining why these people showed up in different cultures thousands of years apart.

Example the X people helped the Sumerians then waited a few thousand years to approach the Maya/Olmecs?

Why did they only give limited tech to say the Polynesians and Inuit and 'all' of it to the AE and Sumer?




posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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I'm constantly reading posts (here and elsewhere) that claim things like "the evidence shows" and "reams of history indicate" or whatnot, none of which contain any of this claimed "evidence" or "history."

Harte



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Harte
I'm constantly reading posts (here and elsewhere) that claim things like "the evidence shows" and "reams of history indicate" or whatnot, none of which contain any of this claimed "evidence" or "history."

Harte


...considering what the evidence probably consists of it may be better to speak of it in a detached way then it seems more impressive.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by anti72
Yes, it seems quite obvious that human history repeats itself.


Ancient City Found in India, Irradiated from Atomic Blast


Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built. For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction.

The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.


veda.wikidot.com...
edit on 8-7-2013 by anti72 because: (no reason given)


NOT AGAIN!!! PLEASE, no more!

from your link:

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent.


"A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe…An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor…it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

The above "quote" is not in the Mahabharata.

also:


Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata.

Ganguli died in the 19th century He was not an "historian." He translated the Mahabharata into English.

In fact, I linked you to his translation, which you can see from the title page if you look.

The earliest version of the text from your link that I have ever found comes from Rense.com and has been debunked by me (and, I'm sure, thousands of others) over and over since then. It is entirely bogus.

The source given by the Rense article - the "World Island Revue" magazine - either never existed, or left no trace of it's existence other than this ridiculous article. "Archaeologist Francis Taylor" never existed either. Of that I am absolutely certain. The rest is also fiction, except the place names.

Harte


so, you say there is no radiation found in these sites, all just ´bogus´...I´m not talking about old Mahabharata translation interpretations.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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I don't think there has been a civilization as advanced as us in the past. Maybe close but since natural resources like iron, coal and oil have not been depleted, they have probably not been discovered.

As for aliens, I think all the "what if"s and "if so"s from the ancient alien series has destroyed those theories forever. I've watched them all and not yet seen any evidence provided by them.
They also underestimate the human ingenuity. "Man can't have discovered X or Y because they were too stupid"
Well we have now and without aliens.

And there is one thing the ancients had in abundance.

Time!



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by tyfon
 
Mans the sort that is smart enough but may have needed primed first. According to the theories of ancient influence, whatever our level today , our technology at its base resides on those early introductions.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by tyfon
 


Yep they did and an artist under the patronage of a king or other high official had only to produce the best he could. Taking nine months or a year to produce a casket or statue, probably longer, years from some of the larger obelisks I would suspect.

Besides time they had craftsmanship, skill and lots of practice and as such 'jobs' were passed from father to son they probably had intense and valuable internships.

----------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by tyfon
 
Mans the sort that is smart enough but may have needed primed first. According to the theories of ancient influence, whatever our level today , our technology at its base resides on those early introductions.



We were primed - by necessity which shows in the very slow adoption of new ideas and technologies, but once we had writing, specialization and enough population to feed those specialists things 'took off'.
edit on 9/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Logarock


The evidence suggests that your simple choice just cant explain it all. The evidence does not force one into an ether or here. The reams of history show that advanced cultures brought new methods and technology to other cultures. In some cases history has not quite human persons involved. The question is were the stories, all of them, just exaggerations made for any number of reasons.



Example the X people helped the Sumerians then waited a few thousand years to approach the Maya/Olmecs?

Why did they only give limited tech to say the Polynesians and Inuit and 'all' of it to the AE and Sumer?



Looks like knowledge was handed out according to control considerations, politics, picking the civilizations that would influence man early. There is no reason to believe that any initial influence was for some idea like the good of all mankind or anything. The middle bronze age simply shows a saturation point in metallurgy mass produced. Over time what writing was was understood by people outside of the main civilizations and they mimicked it.....proto groups many local were developed without much nuance when compared to Egypt, Maya, ect. Same thing happened with other technologies but all pointing back to the emergence of structured civilization. Which by the way were all consumed with sun worship and the underworld.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune


We were primed - by necessity which shows in the very slow adoption of new ideas and technologies, but once we had writing, specialization and enough population to feed those specialists things 'took off'.
edit on 9/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)


Yea an I am saying it is very likely that if man had not been shown early agricultural methods, writing, architecture, ect we would have remained in a primitive state. And as I said it is hard to escape the fact that the early strong and influential civilizations world wide were at the service of sun worship and a fundamental religious system were the state, its leaders and people served the heavenly orbs and the underworld and the history of the earth under the pantheon.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock


Yea an I am saying it is very likely that if man had not been shown early agricultural methods, writing, architecture, ect we would have remained in a primitive state.


Well you think it was some outside group and I would say it was the people themselves.


And as I said it is hard to escape the fact that the early strong and influential civilizations world wide were at the service of sun worship and a fundamental religious system were the state, its leaders and people served the heavenly orbs and the underworld and the history of the earth under the pantheon.


Well not all the religions of the early civilizations, these were evolved versions of the earlier clan and tribal religions from which these cultures and civilizations came from. It might be more correct to say that many of these religions were polytheistic with anthropomorphic deities. Also we have found that almost all state societies and tribes around the world have been found to justify political power through divine authority. This would seem that political authority co-opts collective religious belief to bolster itself and to create an elite to keep things organized.

You might find this time line of religious development of interest
edit on 9/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by anti72
so, you say there is no radiation found in these sites, all just ´bogus´...I´m not talking about old Mahabharata translation interpretations.

The region is home to a particularly poorly-safeguarded nuclear power plant.

Besides that, there is radiation everywhere. Background radiation varies with the region your looking at. It's not the same all over the Earth.

Mohenjo-Daro may be slightly more radioactive that some places, and less so than some other places. The "layer of radioactive ash" is completely made up.

At any rate, digs continue there to this day and nobody is using any precautions against radiation. What does that tell you?

Harte
edit on 7/9/2013 by Harte because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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Lets see...

Raw rock....check
Raw wood....check
Basic laws of gravity obeyed...check
Basic understanding of leverage and fulcrum...check
Basic understanding that different raw materials have different hardness....check
#load of time...check


Yep I see alien finger prints all over this.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune


Well not all the religions of the early civilizations, these were evolved versions of the earlier clan and tribal religions from which these cultures and civilizations came from. It might be more correct to say that many of these religions were polytheistic with anthropomorphic deities. Also we have found that almost all state societies and tribes around the world have been found to justify political power through divine authority. This would seem that political authority co-opts collective religious belief to bolster itself and to create an elite to keep things organized.

You might find this time line of religious development of interest
edit on 9/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



It cannot be denied that the major civilizations of the world were consumed with sun worship, king as god, underworld, basically the same pantheon with the same attributes in general ect. All mimicking a major influencing civilization.



posted on Jul, 9 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock



It cannot be denied that the major civilizations of the world were consumed with sun worship, king as god, underworld, basically the same pantheon with the same attributes in general ect. All mimicking a major influencing civilization.


Sure it can be denied because its incorrect, Sumerian king derived their power from gods, they were not worshipped they were considered 'agents' of the Gods. AE considered the Pharaoh an aspect of a god/god (it changed over time) but the Sun wasn't their main target of worship.

Pantheons were similar because the men who made up the religions applied god powers to similar traits and attributes they saw in nature and to men. For the Sumerian and AE they arose out of the same general region and shares some common themes.

No 'major' influencing civilization, some later civilization created similar pantheons but with different attributes and methods of religious thought (Hindu, Aztec, Han, Shinto, etc)

Just for grins and giggles when did the 'major' influencing civ do all this influencing in regards to religion and when did they teach these lesser civs...say agriculture?

You appear to be trying to use a Gish Gallop, putting out claim after claim but ignoring my replies, go back and respond to my replies, either accept, deny or show how they are wrong, thanks.
edit on 9/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by anti72
so, you say there is no radiation found in these sites, all just ´bogus´...I´m not talking about old Mahabharata translation interpretations.


The region is home to a particularly poorly-safeguarded nuclear power plant

Harte
edit on 7/9/2013 by Harte because: (no reason given)


can you back that up with any data?

cheers



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by anti72
 


[en.wikipedia.org...]Nuclear powerplants in Pakistan[/url]

Shows locations of powerplants in Pakistan




Shows location of major IVC sites






edit on 11/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


the fact there are modern power plants doesnt debunk that older radiation was found at the ancient sites..



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Many cultures, civilizations and religions point to 'gods' providing the x, y and z of technology, from fire, to language to agriculture. This probably reflects stories made up to explain where these things came from long after the event had occurred, the man or woman who actually made the advance is forgotten and the spiritually inclined direct the ;step up; to a favoured god.


I knew a preacher once who volunteered his time to hold a church service at a local juvenile detention center. In one of his favorite speeches he would give every so often he talked about wisdom and making choices. He was a former drug addict who cleaned up and now did what he could to help these young kids. That aside, during this speech he talked about how god gave him the wisdom to learn from his mistakes and start making the right choices and that it was through god that he became who he was and what he was now privileged to do in life.

That is just one man, today, in a fairly secular world. We live in a world where many believe that prayers routinely bring answers to a wide variety of life's problems. Why wouldn't a highly religious society not believe they solve issues through the grace of a deity?



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by anti72
reply to post by Hanslune
 


the fact there are modern power plants doesnt debunk that older radiation was found at the ancient sites..



Then you shouldn't have any trouble at all finding data to support that - good luck



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Cypress

Originally posted by Hanslune

Many cultures, civilizations and religions point to 'gods' providing the x, y and z of technology, from fire, to language to agriculture. This probably reflects stories made up to explain where these things came from long after the event had occurred, the man or woman who actually made the advance is forgotten and the spiritually inclined direct the ;step up; to a favoured god.


I knew a preacher once who volunteered his time to hold a church service at a local juvenile detention center. In one of his favorite speeches he would give every so often he talked about wisdom and making choices. He was a former drug addict who cleaned up and now did what he could to help these young kids. That aside, during this speech he talked about how god gave him the wisdom to learn from his mistakes and start making the right choices and that it was through god that he became who he was and what he was now privileged to do in life.

That is just one man, today, in a fairly secular world. We live in a world where many believe that prayers routinely bring answers to a wide variety of life's problems. Why wouldn't a highly religious society not believe they solve issues through the grace of a deity?


Yes that was a very common and as you pointed out still a comment perception. When I use to teach Arab students they would accredit their doing well to Allah. I have a relative who is a nun and she awards God with all credit for any ideas she comes up with, people use to say, yes I designed that based on inspiration from God, etc

You can look at modern technology when people look back at how the technology was created there is often confused over who did what first, etc





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