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Niether Body nor Spirit

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posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


LOL! What a poor 'come back' in response to my thread. You use Bible quotes to determine what is real and what is not? I asure you "Les Misan" - the Bible (the Bable) is a rip off of many stories, altered and metaphorically arranged to confuse and trap the reader within their own mind complex.

People expereince SPIRITUAL NATURE. This is something you or your little book cannot dimiss as it happens every moment, as the paralell dimensions or "realities" exist as does this one you perceive and expereince with your 5 senses.

Your thoughts, your awwareness, your feelings are ALL INTERNAL. You are inside a body "looking" out to the EXTERNAL-verse VIA the 5 senses.

The Bible is filled with spiritual references, non-human beings. You think you are clever creating this thread? Only ones that will agree are - bible followers, athiests, and people who choose (because it is a choice) not to beleive in their true nature.

Just wait until your body fails to support your INTERNAL energy (the electrical current that operates your body-machine via nervous system) - only so you can observe that physical matter is not the only dimensional reality.

What is at the core of every atom? LIGHT. Light is not physical. What does that say abotu the physical universe? All that dark matter you perceive when you look up at night - is teeming with life and alternate realities - but cannot be seen with 5 senses. You must perceive it within yourself, because YOU are the bridge to the paralell dimensions.

But go ahead and live in the dense EXTERNAL world that is outside of yourself - outside of the trapped conscciously you are.

Still a lame reponse to my thread




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
The only nothing I see is the value of your outlook, which amounts to the regurgitation of another's ideas (Osho?).


Osho does not provide ideas or beliefs - he removes them.
He says that philosopher's are fools.

edit on 20-6-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by covertpanther
 


I wrote this months ago. Don't flatter yourself.

Every time you hit a key, in an attempt to express your "inner" self, you contradict everything you say. How am I to believe someone who has never lived without a body, that our true nature is bodiless spirits? Every time you open your mouth, take a breath, exist in the moment, proves you wrong. That means you lie or are willfully ignorant.

Prove it to me. Become a bodiless spirit.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Osho does not provide ideas or beliefs - he removes them.
He says that philosopher's are fools.


So an advocate would have us believe.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope


No; I am not a spirit. But likewise, it would be just as foolish to assume I am a body only.

When I walk in a room, I am not known as a body, I am not seen as a corpse, a slab of meat or a rotting flesh-prison.

Would you say that you are the life?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Osho does not provide ideas or beliefs - he removes them.
He says that philosopher's are fools.


So an advocate would have us believe.

If one 'believes' then one has not fully investigated to find out if it is true or not. Most think they know and they have ideas and beliefs which will not allow them have a really good look - they will only know what they have been led to believe (strong minded individuals). Remove all beliefs and all programming and find that underneath there is nothing.

Until it is tasted it will not be understood.
If you had never experienced chocolate no one could ever get you to understand what chocolate tastes like.

I wanted to post this Osho video last time but could not find it - here he tells how he wants to destroy all belief systems.

When all ideas and beliefs lift everything is seen for what it is. There is an intelligence which is smarter than the mind because the mind works with symbols - IT is already known prior to symbols being allocated. It is instant whereas the mind has to compute. The happening is now and if one spends time inside the mind working things out one misses the real show.
edit on 20-6-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


You dont even make any sense? I think your really confused, trying to convince yourself (with Bible quotes) of something your conscious mind does not understand.

There is no contridiciton; I am an AWARENESS ROOTED IN SIDE A BODY IN THSI DIMENSION. Obviously te awareness uses what it was taught (language) within the body to communicate with its fellow conscious beings. The electrical currents within my body OPERATE it via the conscious awareness I AM.

How is that contridicting anything? You are clearly stated you are not a philospher, nor are you adept in occult or spiritual knowledge - so stop arguing against something you have LITTLE understanding or experience about. ITs useless - you beat around the bush instead of take the facts and such I have presented you, face value. You choose NOT to learn (ignorantly) because you do not "beleive".

Belief is LIMITING to your compelte INTERNAL self. If you take the keys that have been presented (METAPHOR) and open the doors inside of your self (another META-phor) you will experience things, and thus understand more, and then have a valid reason to argue about such aspects of reality.

Your choosing to be an ignorant mind - choosing not to expand yourself and learn that which you have not experienced. You havent experienced the galaxy, but you beleive its there, you havent expereince the universe, yet you beleive its there. You havent experienced your spiritual essence, so you do not belive you have one
Dafuque is wrong with you guy?

Here (again) I have given you LOTS of hints and the keys you need to enter into yourself - things take time, but you are obvious not willing to use that time on things that will reveal to you, the TRUTH of yourself. You jsut want to argue, bash, and beat around the bush until your body fails to support your life force (the electrical energy).

I've aided you in more ways then you can currently understand - you have only bashed what I have said. Says enough about yourself and what your about



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by covertpanther
 


I wrote this months ago. Don't flatter yourself.

Every time you hit a key, in an attempt to express your "inner" self, you contradict everything you say. How am I to believe someone who has never lived without a body, that our true nature is bodiless spirits? Every time you open your mouth, take a breath, exist in the moment, proves you wrong. That means you lie or are willfully ignorant.

Prove it to me. Become a bodiless spirit.


How did yo uwrite this months ago - your thread post says "19/6/2013" .. 2 days after my thread, which you tried to bash and dismiss.

FAIL



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Watch this whole video. Maybe you'll better understand the experience we're trying to explain.




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by covertpanther
 





You dont even make any sense? I think your really confused, trying to convince yourself (with Bible quotes) of something your conscious mind does not understand.

There is no contridiciton; I am an AWARENESS ROOTED IN SIDE A BODY IN THSI DIMENSION. Obviously te awareness uses what it was taught (language) within the body to communicate with its fellow conscious beings. The electrical currents within my body OPERATE it via the conscious awareness I AM.

How is that contridicting anything? You are clearly stated you are not a philospher, nor are you adept in occult or spiritual knowledge - so stop arguing against something you have LITTLE understanding or experience about. ITs useless - you beat around the bush instead of take the facts and such I have presented you, face value. You choose NOT to learn (ignorantly) because you do not "beleive".

Belief is LIMITING to your compelte INTERNAL self. If you take the keys that have been presented (METAPHOR) and open the doors inside of your self (another META-phor) you will experience things, and thus understand more, and then have a valid reason to argue about such aspects of reality.

Your choosing to be an ignorant mind - choosing not to expand yourself and learn that which you have not experienced. You havent experienced the galaxy, but you beleive its there, you havent expereince the universe, yet you beleive its there. You havent experienced your spiritual essence, so you do not belive you have one Dafuque is wrong with you guy?

Here (again) I have given you LOTS of hints and the keys you need to enter into yourself - things take time, but you are obvious not willing to use that time on things that will reveal to you, the TRUTH of yourself. You jsut want to argue, bash, and beat around the bush until your body fails to support your life force (the electrical energy).


Made up nonsense, not even of your own thinking no less. What you're doing is pandering the thoughts of whoever you let tyrannize over your mind. I've heard of this garbage before, this "I AM" nonsense. You've given me nothing but the regurgitated insights of someone other than yourself. Congrats.

You are an awareness inside a body? That's all you are? Is that your "spiritual essence"? You fail to even grasp your own concepts, leaving your thought salad completely inedible to anyone with a rational mind. Seriously, open yourself like a surgeon and what will you not find? Your "spiritual essence". It's nowhere but in your imagination and rhetoric, which you've gathered from whatever religions you've been indoctrinated into. I used bible quotes because this about people like you, those who need books and the thoughts of other men to think.



I've aided you in more ways then you can currently understand - you have only bashed what I have said. Says enough about yourself and what your about


You've only aided me in giving me a good chuckle. Whatever turds you try to sell and pass off as your own still smell of the one who pooped them out. I bashed what you said because it makes little to no sense. It is absolutely forgettable and without value.



How did yo uwrite this months ago - your thread post says "19/6/2013" .. 2 days after my thread, which you tried to bash and dismiss.

FAIL

It's called a pen and paper and a wordprocessor. It's a matter of copying and pasting what I write into the window and hitting submit. No where have I said I didn't hit the submit button on 19/6/2013. I have pages and pages of essays ready for whenever I feel like sharing them.

I seriously don't even remember what your thread was about, except that it reeked of high-heaven.

If you have something to argue against my OP, by all means give it a shot. But if you're here because you are sore that someone criticized your ideas, then I think your ideas about "spirituality" are getting you no where.
edit on 20-6-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by HarryTZ
 





Watch this whole video. Maybe you'll better understand the experience we're trying to explain.


I am already learned in Osho's teachings from years back. His nihilism, the fact he drove a rolls royce and the actions of his huge following turned me off his insights quite a bit. I've moved forward since Osho. I need nothing from him.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope


I just assume no one ever agrees with me. Hopefully, at least, you were able to get some enjoyment out of it.

I find it quite refreshing that someone is willing to challenge the orthodoxy of the day. Thank you.

Recently, I've decided to drop the use of the word reincarnation, because it is plain to me now that what I mean by that word is totally not what other people mean by it. So it is a word that only brings confusion.
---------------------------------------------------------
Out Of Body Experience: Yes, I've had that; And when I looked up and saw the spirit leaving, I said, "Hmmm, so that is not me "

The stripping away of all life experience to find the bodyless "self": Yes, I've been their too; and when all the experience, memory, choices, activities, and decisions were gone, and I saw the immortal spark, I replied, "That is not me, neither is it mine. I am part and parcel of that which has been sloughed away layer by layer."

The Platonic realm of archetypal ideas: Yes, I've seen that too. Never for a moment did I think that I was one of them.
--------------------------------------------------------
I tried to find a way to share these experiences in a "Reincarnation" thread but couldn't bring myself to do it in the obviously hostile "orthodox" environment. You at least offered the entree in the OP:

Where does this outlook leave me? Spiritless, an “enemy of God”, a heathen? Am I simply disregarded as some sad soul who believes in nothing?

My experience also.

Am I some damned soul because the spirit is not me? Am I damned because the eternal spark of life is not me? Am I damned because I am not an archetype?

Thank you again for providing this non orthodox venue.

edit on 20-6-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
 





Watch this whole video. Maybe you'll better understand the experience we're trying to explain.


I am already learned in Osho's teachings from years back. His nihilism, the fact he drove a rolls royce and the actions of his huge following turned me off his insights quite a bit. I've moved forward since Osho. I need nothing from him.


You may view his actions as 'less than pure' (which is simply a judgment based on your biased expectations of an enlightened teacher), but it is not Osho that we follow. The wisdom he shares is beyond any single person or body. It emanates from the 'no-me-no-you-just-being' non-dual core of existence.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by covertpanther


Your choosing to be an ignorant mind - choosing not to expand yourself and learn that which you have not experienced. You havent experienced the galaxy, but you beleive its there, you havent expereince the universe, yet you beleive its there. You havent experienced your spiritual essence, so you do not belive you have one Dafuque is wrong with you guy?

And you've been a member of ATS for about 3 whole weeks. How do you know any other member so intimately?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Every promoter of the spirit tells me such. Only I can experience it for myself. No one can use their words and explain it to me. I have experienced enough "spirituality" in my life to know what the spirit is—or is not.


You are in a position to speak with authority about your own experiences, but on what basis do you assume that your personal observations apply universally?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by mysticnoon
 





You are in a position to speak with authority about your own experiences, but on what basis do you assume that your personal observations apply universally?


I can not disagree with this mysticnoon. However, I only observe and relate the paradoxes and contradictions in the language. The Law of non-contradiction applies universally.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Thanks for the kind words. It seems we've both been to many of the same "places".



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by HarryTZ
 





You may view his actions as 'less than pure' (which is simply a judgment based on your biased expectations of an enlightened teacher), but it is not Osho that we follow. The wisdom he shares is beyond any single person or body. It emanates from the 'no-me-no-you-just-being' non-dual core of existence.


Maybe that's where we differ. Actions, to me, speak louder than words when they go against what is being preached. When the mouth says one thing, but the rest does differently, it doesn't go by unnoticed. I think I'm doomed to see hypocrisy in all philosophy. That may be my curse.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Maybe that's where we differ. Actions, to me, speak louder than words when they go against what is being preached. When the mouth says one thing, but the rest does differently, it doesn't go by unnoticed. I think I'm doomed to see hypocrisy in all philosophy. That may be my curse.


He owns a ridiculous amount of Rolls Royces, so what? When has Osho said that owning physical objects is 'wrong'? You seem to think that the Buddhist philosophy is about external appearance, that the goal is to 'seem humble'. That is a silly thought at best. Buddhism suggests that we renounce attachment to the physical world, not that we abandon it. And we do this for ourselves, our own inner well-being, not so people will think highly of us. I would say that this is your curse, that you judge a human being by his outer appearance. But a person is much more than just their outwardly appearance. There is so much more within them that you have not seen... judging them just becomes foolish. So until you realize that Osho has never gone against his own teachings, you have missed the point completely.
edit on 20-6-2013 by HarryTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Ive been a member here for years under other accounts, before I made accounts I was a long time "lurker".

Dont juudge the cover


@ 'Les minas' or whatever - Your just being defensive and want SO hard to not beleive anything but the concrete world you experience with your 5 senses. Its easy to close your mind off to what you dont know. Its easy to ignore bodies of information that are infront of oyu. Its easy to make excuses and bash what you care not to understand..

Its hard to admit to yourself that you are not adept or expereinced in the spiritual nature, and therefore have no clue in which you talk about. I understand why it is so hard for individuals - they fear being mocked, ridiculed and living "a fantasy" as they are hastly to label it.

People as myself do not care what you think - the bottom line as I keep saying over and over - when your body dies, your consciousness will seperate from the materrial world you so desperately held on too your entire life. It will be too much of an experience for oyu to grasp in the moments - your essence will have little time, be turned around, and a new child you will become. Starting all over again until YOU FIGURE IT OUT.

And I have GIVEN you the knowledge needed to by pass the seperation from matieral and spiritual - the bridge is YOU, the KEYS are HERE, what will you do? Wait until death? I'll tell you right now science which is not an indivudal entity - its an idea - will have no use for oyu when you seperate from the body. You fear this FACT - because it nags at you to examine reality more closer and think the "unthinkable" - that which you have ignored and bashed your entire life span.

I apologize for trying to help you - the knowledge is (T)HERE. Your welcome, good bye

edit on 20-6-2013 by covertpanther because: (no reason given)



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