If You Are A Christian Freemason...

reply to post by capod2t


It's not bullyesque. I live my life by Scripture, and my Scripture calls all Christians to go out with righteous judgment (Matthew 7:1-5) as Jesus did, facing the false teachings and bad teachers wherever you find them. It's because Christians fail to do this these days, that the worst kind of heretical teachings and blasphemy are running around, being applied to Christianity.

I'm not bullying you. I'm not forcing anything down your throat. I'm telling you what the Bible says, and you can take it or leave it. But please, don't masquerade Gnostic, Neoplatonic, and Hermetic teachings as being Christian. God's Word alone is sufficient, not uninspired, contradictory nonsense.

Jeremiah 17:9 tells us that the "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?"

Proverbs 3:5-7 makes it clear that you must "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil."

"Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint." (Isaiah 1:5)

Instead, we are told "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Luke 12:34)

Our treasure is the Kingdom, given to us by our Lord and Savior. In being a slave to Him only, we are freed from worldliness. We cannot rely on our heart or our mind first, instead, we must rely on God, and in seeking the true God through His holy Word, our heart AND mind will find its way to the right place.

If you really want to know God, seek Him by praying to Him and reading the Bible daily.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Dear FollowTheWhiteRabbit,

I disagree with your understanding of Mary and the Church, but may I suggest we return to some issues that have something to do with Freemasonry?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by capod2t

Dear capod2t,

You are not going back far enough for real information. You have to go back to the original source documents.

I don't understand, I quoted from the Vatican web site. How much more originial can it be?

Masons (and other illuminated groups such as the Rosicrucians) are secret because they had to be back in the day when the Catholics were wiping everyone out.

I don't understand your use of tenses either. The Masons (begun in 1717 as far as anybody knows) were never in danger of being wiped out by Catholics.

They are secret today, because back before they existed they were being wiped out by Catholics?

Thanks for suggesting I look up those individuals. I started with Giordano Bruno. Here's what I found at Wiki, my usual first stop:

While Bruno was distinguished for outstanding ability, his taste for free thinking and forbidden books soon caused him difficulties. Given the controversy he caused in later life it is surprising that he was able to remain within the monastic system for eleven years. In his testimony to Venetian inquisitors during his trial, many years later, he indicates that proceedings were twice taken against him for having cast away images of the saints, retaining only a crucifix, and for having made controversial reading recommendations to a novice. Such behavior could perhaps be overlooked, but Bruno's situation became much more serious when he was reported to have defended the Arian heresy, and when a copy of the banned writings of Erasmus, annotated by him, was discovered hidden in the convent privy. When he learned that an indictment was being prepared against him in Naples he fled, shedding his religious habit, at least for a time.

This guy doesn't sound like an admirable figure at all. A sneaking heretic. When he was eventually brought before the Inquisition, these were the charges:

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith and speaking against it and its ministers;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith pertaining to Jesus as Christ;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith regarding the virginity of Mary, mother of Jesus;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about both Transubstantiation and Mass;
claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity;
believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes, and;
dealing in magics and divination.

en.wikipedia.org...

It looks like he was treated as a heretic according to the customs of the day when he refused to recant his positions. This is not a guy I'd want to hold up as a hero.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


The Mason's faced the same fear of extermination as the heretics and "witches" of the same time period. Even today there are still Christian sects who murder those who they believe to be "witches". Ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds hate, hate breeds violence and violence breeds fear. It's a vicious cycle brought on by religious dogma and the ignorance of those who don't seek to understand their fellow man from any other position than the one their "God" tells them too.

Originally posted by EViLKoNCEPTz
reply to post by charles1952

 

The Mason's faced the same fear of extermination as the heretics and "witches" of the same time period. Even today there are still Christian sects who murder those who they believe to be "witches". Ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds hate, hate breeds violence and violence breeds fear. It's a vicious cycle brought on by religious dogma and the ignorance of those who don't seek to understand their fellow man from any other position than the one their "God" tells them too.

edit on 6/19/2013 by EViLKoNCEPTz because: (no reason given)

You're mixing up intolerance for beliefs and lifestyles with hatred of the person and murder.

What I mean by that is this: Consider homosexuality. I am completely intolerant towards homosexuality. Homosexual behavior is sinful and evil, and is not a lifestyle, but just another sin. Does that mean I won't befriend a homosexual? No, I have in the past and I will continue to do so, but they'll know that I don't tolerate their lifestyle. It doesn't mean that I want to throw them in jail or kill them. I love a homosexual male or female just as much as I love anybody else. In fact, I love them far more than I love myself. But I cannot accept their lifestyle in any way, shape or form.

In the same way, I love Freemasons, even the rare few who are bad people. My boss at my second real job was a man named Mike. He was the GM at the store I worked at. He was a Freemason, and a very open one. He is a wonderful person, fair, respectful, nice. In the terminology of the Freemasons, he really was "on the square" with every person he managed, met, and worked for. Does that mean I have to tolerate his Freemasonic beliefs? Of course not. But I don't hate him or want to kill him.

No Christian, no TRUE Christian wants to hate anybody or kill anybody. Hate and murder are Satanic. If you have hate in your heart or murderous thoughts in your mind, then you have Satan trying to influence you.

It's just like Islam. ANY religion, belief, or philosophy that advocates hate and/or murder are the most obvious ones that are from the devil himself.

Whatever has happened to Freemasons in the past, or any members of any secret societies, in regards to so-called Christians persecuting them or hating them, I abominate. If there's one thing I can't tolerate more, it's intolerance to the person. It's hatred towards the individual, it's wanting to kill someone or bringing about their death in some way.

I don't want to persecute or kill Freemasons. I love them enough to want to come on here and make this thread. I love them enough that I would remain on this thread and debate the topic with actual Freemasons. Not because I hate them, but because I love with dearly, not just because a good friend and boss was a mason, but precisely because I don't know them personally but I know what they practice.

reply to post by EViLKoNCEPTz

The Mason's faced the same fear of extermination as the heretics and "witches" of the same time period. Even today there are still Christian sects who murder those who they believe to be "witches".

That's exactly what happens when "Christians" try to mix ancient voodoo with Christianity.

The Bible says not to do it!

reply to post by Deetermined


It's the same reason why people buy anointing oil and "holy" water from TV preachers who say that it will cure all their ills. The same reason why people view God as if He's their own personal genie that will give them health, wealth, success, and prosperity if they just believe hard enough and ask for it.

It's the same reason why Catholics in South America, Hispanic countries, and Asian countries think statues of the Virgin Mary cry blood, and kiss the feet of statues of saints.

It's all the same thing. Introducing magic into Christianity. It saddens me when any of that kind of thing happens.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Unfortunately, I see so much mysticism still being practiced by so called "Christians" today that I think the rest of us are outnumbered. There's a reason the Bible said not to do it, but no one wants to take the time to know who God is and what he said. They all want to take shortcuts that lead straight to the lower levels spirits who are all so willing and ready to suck them in and pull them down with them.

reply to post by charles1952


Charles

I appreciate your questions. I am skimming these topics over and, as such, am probably lacking clarity. This stuff goes deeeeeeeeeep and could take up pages. I also want to respect the thread and its topic.

However, I will speak to the following.

You are not going back far enough for real information. You have to go back to the original source documents.

The Vatican would not be a source of reference for me (unless they gave me access to their secret archives and library!). I was referring to scrolls and scripts written prior to the New Testament and Pre-Vatican. In other context, I was referring to Old Testament writings. Examples of each are the Gospel of Thomas or the Testament of Solomon, respectively.

Masons (and other illuminated groups such as the Rosicrucians) are secret because they had to be back in the day when the Catholics were wiping everyone out.

The Gnostics, the free thinkers, were forced underground or faced horrific fate under the power hands of the Romans and Vatican until the times of Martin Luther, when came the Protestants. Any groups, or "cults" not aligned with the Catholics, the only "tolerated" Christian Religion at the time, were in danger. It wasn't until the 1700s when they began to surface, however the groups existed well prior to that. There are Masonic writings that go back a thousand years prior.

Of the founding fathers, the rebels, many were Masons. Many of them, while seated in Christian churches on sunday, were noted and documented Diests. Take a look at the designs of Paris (post French Revolution) and Washington DC. Where are the Christian symbologies? Not extant. Rather, these and other cities of Masonic influence reflect the ancient mysteries, the Old Religion, of which I believe Jesus was illumined throughout His childhood.

With regard to Bruno and Campanella, they were radicals, like Jesus. Nonconformists and recalcitrant. Pioneers.

Less than admirable? According to who? the authorities of those times? Would this be your judgment of Copernicus and Gallileo as well for stating the earth revolved around the Sun before it was accepted?

btw, I avoid Wiki as a resource as well.

reply to post by capod2t

Rather, these and other cities of Masonic influence reflect the ancient mysteries, the Old Religion, of which I believe Jesus was illumined throughout His childhood.

No, this was just a way for pagans to continue to do what they wanted to do by mixing ancient religion with Jesus.

Jesus never would have practiced or taught such things because God spoke out against it, even before Jesus came to earth.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

No Christian, no TRUE Christian wants to hate anybody or kill anybody. Hate and murder are Satanic. If you have hate in your heart or murderous thoughts in your mind, then you have Satan trying to influence you.

I would throw INTOLERANCE and JUDGMENT in there as well.

Who are you, as a recipient of God's Unconditional Love, to love conditionally? UNconditional love incorporates not only tolerance and accpetance, but celebration of diversities and respect of others' paths, for all paths lead to God.

Farewell, Friend.

reply to post by capod2t


Please understand that there is a difference between selfish intolerance and judgment and righteous intolerance and judgment. While Christ turned over tables and whipped money changers in the temple, calling the religious leaders of his day hypocrites and dogs, Christ protected the life of an adulterous woman and ate with tax collectors and other unwanted people.

In other words, God loves everybody, but that doesn't mean He has no judgment. For what sort of judge would one be if they only found people innocent?

Jesus was like a doctor. When he saw a disease, he gave a diagnoses and then a cure. In other words, when he saw sin, he pointed it out, effectively judging others in their sin (or, in other words, "you will know them by their fruits").

God is intolerant towards sin. He is intolerant towards blasphemy. He is especially intolerant towards people saying He commanded things that He didn't command, or that HIs Word says things that it doesn't say.

Christians are to be like Christ: We must confront sin, point it out, and distribute the cure. The cure is the forgiveness of sin by the redemption obtained by the blood of Christ.

God loves everyone, otherwise everyone wouldn't be here. However, His love and grace can be pulled away, just like His wrath can be withheld. Jesus said "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world but for those You have given Me, because they are Yours." (John 17:9)

Jesus doesn't pray (or intercede) for sinners, but for believers. Because if Jesus died for literally everyone, then nobody would go to Hell. Therefore, his preaching of Hell wouldn't make any sense. Jesus does not intercede for unbelievers, otherwise the diagnosis of sin he made throughout the New Testament would be absurd. Why would he point out sin, say people are going to Hell if they don't repent and accept him as their Lord and Savior, and then intercede in Heaven for everyone?

You say "for all paths lead to God". Jesus said HE was the way, the truth, the light. Jesus said HE was the only way to God. All other religions are contradictory to Christianity. You cannot have a philosophy of pluralism and function in any religious way, because then Christianity would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

This isn't a diverse multiple choice question. Either you serve Christ, or you serve Satan. Either-or, an A or B question. There aren't any other choices beyond B.

reply to post by Deetermined

Are you familiar with Christianity, really? Are you at all familiar with Buddhism? Ever notice the correlations? Ever wonder what Jesus was doing for the first 30 years of his life?

This certainly is a deep rabbit hole, and the evidence is there, but so many people get caught up in the flat, exoteric dogma of their own belief system and never consider anything beyond that...

Anyways, pulling my rip-cord and bailing out of this thread. Enjoy!

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Jesus Christ do you really believe what you write? Just a quick question, do you believe in Satan also?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

Freemasonry claims to be superior to Christianity.

Freemasonry makes no such claim. I could stop right there with your first lie, but I'll continue.

Even worse, Freemasons consider the theology and Biblical doctrines as being "theological barnacles". "Drop the theological barnacles from the religion of Jesus, as taught by Him, and by the Essenes and Gnostics of the first centuries, and it becomes Masonry, Masonry in its purity, derived as it is from the old Hebrew Kaballa as a part of the great universal religion of the remotest antiquity." J. D. Buck

You quote J.D. Buck but you know nothing about the Dr. do you? You found that quote out of context and thought it served your purpose. Foolish. If you had taken the time to read Dr. Buck and actually learn any truth about Masons you wouldn't have written this ill conceived thread in the first place.

Taken from his Introduction of "Mystic Masonry" Here is what Dr. Buck really thought of Christianity and religion:

"What, then, shall we conclude regarding the real genius of Christianity? Is it all a fable, put forth and kept alive by designing men, to support their pretensions to authority? Are historical facts and personal biography alone entitled to credit? While everlasting principles, Divine 'Beneficence, and the laying down of one's life for another are of no account? Is that which has inspired the hopes and brightened the lives of the downtrodden and despairing for ages a mere fancy, a designing lie? Tear every shred of history from the life of Christ today, and prove beyond all controversy that he never existed, and Humanity from its heart-of-hearts, would create him again tomorrow and justify the creation by every intuition of the human soul and by every need of the daily life of man. The historical contention might be given up, ignored, and the whole character genius, and mission of Jesus, the Christ, be none the less real beneficent, and eternal, with all of its human and dramatic episodes. Explain it as you will, it can never be explained away the character remains; and whether Historical or Ideal, it is real and eternal."

Not the anti-Christian you try to make him out to be now is he? This happens about 2 or 3 times a month here on ATS, we have a member who resides not so quietly in a stained-glass house and throws stones at somethings he/she doesn't know anything about or more than likely is too scared to find out the truth on Masonry and creates ignorant threads about the "evils" of membership. If you really had the best interests of Masons in mind you wouldn't lie about them or the brotherhood. I feel you have serious doubts about your own faith and are projecting to reassure yourself. Kinda sad and I feel sorry for you.

There are other members who will be along shortly to pick apart the other lies and half-truths, so I'll leave it to them to finish what I started.

i think this quote lends support to the OP. it is clear that the historical reality of christ
is seriously questioned and doubted (rightly so) but because humanity on the whole need
to have a myth to follow, they cannot be stopped from following such a figure.
but the character can bring no truth to those with 'better' information.
and so is not worthy of worship or respect.

i was always confused by the need to believe in a higher power when seeking
to become a freemason. automatically excluded are many, many possible fine members
who, with intelligence and critical thinking skills, remain agnostic for want of information
or experience to sway them in the matter.

Well, in order to be a freemason you have to take an oath to reject all light except the light of freemasonry. This means you're rejecting Jesus, so you can't be a freemason and be a christian both. So a "christian freemason" is actually an oxymoron. Like saying "jumbo shrimp" or "tight slacks".

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by capod2t

 

Rather, these and other cities of Masonic influence reflect the ancient mysteries, the Old Religion, of which I believe Jesus was illumined throughout His childhood.

No, this was just a way for pagans to continue to do what they wanted to do by mixing ancient religion with Jesus.

Jesus never would have practiced or taught such things because God spoke out against it, even before Jesus came to earth.

edit on 19-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

And the stone the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone (Psalm 118:22).

Whoops, sorry freemasons, your rejection of Jesus didn't work out.

reply to post by Heliophant

Are you familiar with Christianity, really? Are you at all familiar with Buddhism? Ever notice the correlations? Ever wonder what Jesus was doing for the first 30 years of his life?

I don't need to wonder, I know what he was doing. He was learning his adopted father's trade. Ya know carpentry? Making furniture, building homes that type of stuff, back then carpentry entailed not just building homes but making furniture, building cabinets etc. Being the first born it would have been his job to take over the family business unless he was going in to the ministry, which couldn't legally begin until he was 30, not that it stopped him from teaching Torah, he was teaching Torah before his bat'Mitzpah, which should have been impossible because you memorize and read your first Torah lines for your bat'Mitzpah when you first turn 13. Being legally a man at 13 he would then be apprenticed to Joseph.

Why is it so hard for people to realize that love is god, and god is love?

If you want to be religious, live in love.

Be kind, caring, compassionate, tolerant and understanding of all beings, human, plant and animals.

What more is there to understand than living under those principles?

If you live in love, from the heart, not from the head, I can promise you that you will discover god.

You will not need to read any books, or opinions from others. You will not need to search for meaning or understanding.

You will discover it within your own heart.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well, in order to be a freemason you have to take an oath to reject all light except the light of freemasonry.

So incredibly untrue it's laughable.

My faith being in the God of Abraham, I believe my life is well founded. It matters not what another Man thinks of my decisions or beliefs, as the God of Abraham is whom I will ultimately answer to.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


en.wikipedia.org...

I wouldn't be so sure that Jesus was building cabinets during this time.