If You Are A Christian Freemason...

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posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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Freemasonry claims to be superior to Christianity.

"Freemasonry is not Christianity, nor a substitute for it. It does not meddle with sectarian creeds or doctrines, but teaches fundamental religious truth." - Albert G. Mackey

Even worse, Freemasons consider the theology and Biblical doctrines as being "theological barnacles".

"Drop the theological barnacles from the religion of Jesus, as taught by Him, and by the Essenes and Gnostics of the first centuries, and it becomes Masonry, Masonry in its purity, derived as it is from the old Hebrew Kaballa as a part of the great universal religion of the remotest antiquity." J. D. Buck

All the "Secrets" of the symbols of Masonry have their roots in Kaballah, an ancient Judaic form of mysticism and magic.

"All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kaballah and return to it; everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the Illuminati, Jacob Boeheme, Swedenborg, Saint Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and their Symbols." - Albert Pike

Oaths are important in Freemasonry, yet we're taught:

But I tell you, don't take an oath at all: either by heaven, because it is God's throne; (Matthew 5:34)

What's truly disturbing about a professing Christian being involved in Freemasonry is that, by being a Freemason, you are yolking yourselves with unbelievers. There aren't just Christian Freemasons. There are Muslim masons, Hindu masons, Buddhist masons, Jewish masons. For all we know, there are Satanist masons. And guess what? You're tying yourselves together, all of you, regardless of whether you worship the one true God or a false god.

Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? (2 Corinthians 6:14-15)

You have also promised others to not only, under penalty of death, reveal any secrets of Freemasonry, but if any other mason does so, you are to "cut his throat from ear to ear" and "bury his body at the bottom of some lake or pond" and that "all this must be done in secret". This is "your obligation". Not only that, but if any minister prays in the name of Christ in your lodge, the same must be done to him if that is called for.

"When a brother reveals any of our great secrets; whenever, for instance, he tells anything about Boaz, or Tubalcain, or Jachin, or that awful Mah-hah-bone, or even whenever a minister prays in the name of Christ in any of our assemblies, you must always hold yourself in readiness, if called upon, to cut his throat from ear to ear, pull out his tongue by the roots, and bury his body at the bottom of some lake or pond. Of course, all this must be done in secret, as it was in the case of that notorious man Morgan, for both law and civilization are opposed to such barbarous crimes, but then, you know you must live up to your obligation, and so long as you have sworn to do it, by being very strict and obedient in the matter, you'll be free from sin." Edmond Ronayne

Now. You can say that these are just some sort of metaphorical mumbo jumbo that you only take in stride, but let me ask you something...

This "notorious man Morgan" that was referenced in the previous quote by Ronayne, is a man named William Morgan. After announcing plans to make a book exposing secrets of Freemasonry, he mysteriously wound up dead after his decomposed body washed onto the shores of Lake Ontario.

So let me ask you this: You're not only making Freemasonry superior to the religion you profess to believe in, not only does Freemasonry disrespect your faith, not only does Freemasonry make serious calls to kill people (especially ministers who pray to Christ in your assemblies), but according to masonic literature I've read (and I've read much of it), Freemasons are to consider Hiram Abiff to be "the greatest man to have ever lived, possibly greater than Jesus."

Before you come after me, let me tell you one thing: I don't believe in some fantastical Freemasonic world domination conspiracy theory. I don't believe Freemasons directly worship Satan or some false god (unless they actually do worship Satan or a false god). What I do believe, is what I know, and that is that everything about Freemasonry just oozes antichristian sentiment out of every crack.

I ask that you please reconsider your membership to Freemasonry. There will come a day when you will stand before God, and your life will be judged. What will become clear is that you associate and have a brotherhood with the many, many unbelieving members of Freemasonry, and that you (whether knowingly or unknowingly) yolk yourselves to practices and teachings that not just contradict God's Word, but in many cases insults it.

I post this not out of hate or some kind of anger fueled by conspiracy theories about Freemasons. I'm doing it because I genuinely care for you, and when I see an obvious contradiction of terms between Christianity and Freemasonry, I am called to say something. John 7:24 calls Christians to "Stop judging according to outward appearances; rather judge according to righteous judgment." I'm not judging you because you have the outward appearance of something ungodly, but because, having delved into Freemasonic literature and having learned what I've learned, I absolutely MUST say something. Not for my own good, but for your own.

That is why God calls for you to leave your lodge, cancel your membership, sell your apron and other masonic items, and instead of finding communion with other Freemasons who may or may not be your brothers in Christ, to go to church and find communion with your fellow believers, and find communion with the one and only God.




posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:32 AM
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One thing that confuses me about Freemasonry, and it truly is confusion not condemnation, is the large number of people who say "It's just a good group of guys helping the community and having a good time." That's absolutely fine with me. You can find other groups with a similar goal: Kiwanis, Rotary, Elk, Moose, Knights of Columbus, VFW, American Legion, etc.

My confusion is with these "Joe Six-packs" and the oaths of each Masonic degree. Those oaths aren't even close to the other groups. They may not be the same as presented in the OP, but they are presented seriously, with excessive (perhaps symbolic) penalties, and all sorts of mysterious trappings.

What does Mr. Six-pack make of these oaths? Does he regard them as meaningless play acting? I don't know of any Mason that would agree with that. They are quite serious and are meant to be taken seriously. So, how does Joe reconcile himself to oaths that are stronger and more forbidding than those he took when he was married or joined the military?

I don't like his options. He might mentally declare the oaths to be play acting, in which case he's announcing to himself and the world that he is perfectly prepared to take a meaningless oath and that oaths don't really mean anything. Or he could be taking a serious oath which he intends to keep, submitting himself to death for violation of it. I can't come up with any other lodge or group that has such a penalty. Even the oath of witnesses only threatens them with a perjury conviction.

There's something wrong here.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


The "death" in the oath is the death of your membership not the person. Originally way back when masonry was first brought around actual death may have been a real penalty, but today it's no more than a symbolic death in the loss of membership, your masonic death not physical death.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by EViLKoNCEPTz
 


Maybe they changed it because they can't get away with murder these days like they did back then with Morgan and Joseph Smith (supposedly).



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 





Freemasonry claims to be superior to Christianity.


Freemasonry makes no such claim. I could stop right there with your first lie, but I'll continue.




Even worse, Freemasons consider the theology and Biblical doctrines as being "theological barnacles". "Drop the theological barnacles from the religion of Jesus, as taught by Him, and by the Essenes and Gnostics of the first centuries, and it becomes Masonry, Masonry in its purity, derived as it is from the old Hebrew Kaballa as a part of the great universal religion of the remotest antiquity." J. D. Buck


You quote J.D. Buck but you know nothing about the Dr. do you? You found that quote out of context and thought it served your purpose. Foolish. If you had taken the time to read Dr. Buck and actually learn any truth about Masons you wouldn't have written this ill conceived thread in the first place.

Taken from his Introduction of "Mystic Masonry" Here is what Dr. Buck really thought of Christianity and religion:


"What, then, shall we conclude regarding the real genius of Christianity? Is it all a fable, put forth and kept alive by designing men, to support their pretensions to authority? Are historical facts and personal biography alone entitled to credit? While everlasting principles, Divine 'Beneficence, and the laying down of one's life for another are of no account? Is that which has inspired the hopes and brightened the lives of the downtrodden and despairing for ages a mere fancy, a designing lie? Tear every shred of history from the life of Christ today, and prove beyond all controversy that he never existed, and Humanity from its heart-of-hearts, would create him again tomorrow and justify the creation by every intuition of the human soul and by every need of the daily life of man. The historical contention might be given up, ignored, and the whole character genius, and mission of Jesus, the Christ, be none the less real beneficent, and eternal, with all of its human and dramatic episodes. Explain it as you will, it can never be explained away the character remains; and whether Historical or Ideal, it is real and eternal."


Not the anti-Christian you try to make him out to be now is he? This happens about 2 or 3 times a month here on ATS, we have a member who resides not so quietly in a stained-glass house and throws stones at somethings he/she doesn't know anything about or more than likely is too scared to find out the truth on Masonry and creates ignorant threads about the "evils" of membership. If you really had the best interests of Masons in mind you wouldn't lie about them or the brotherhood. I feel you have serious doubts about your own faith and are projecting to reassure yourself. Kinda sad and I feel sorry for you.

There are other members who will be along shortly to pick apart the other lies and half-truths, so I'll leave it to them to finish what I started.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 


You apparently know nothing of the Mason's. They aren't as scary as you'd like to believe. It's just a bunch of men who like to dress up and reenact their history through plays and hang out and make connections with other like minded individuals. The only religion in Masonry is you have to believe in a single supreme being, a creator. Most of their meetings involve a bunch of chit chat and story telling no different from the VFW, Elks, Moose, Shriner's etc. All of which members aren't supposed to discuss what goes on behind closed doors. It's just a fancy boys club. My great grandfather was a Mason from the late early 1900s til he passed in the mid 60s. About the only serious thing they do is raise money for charities, mostly medical in nature.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 02:09 AM
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I ask that you please reconsider your membership to Freemasonry. There will come a day when you will stand before God, and your life will be judged.


They answer like little kids who take life as a joke , the kids who like to experience things for themselves. In the end , they say "what is the big deal ?". They think that Adam ate the fruit because he was curious , not because he was tempted. They ignore #1 enemy of all humans. That is what Satan wants.

They just remind me of my former conversations with Satan , he was saying the same thing.

I think the guy who threw the bomb on Japanese people was thinking similar way.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by mideast


I ask that you please reconsider your membership to Freemasonry. There will come a day when you will stand before God, and your life will be judged.


They answer like little kids who take life as a joke , the kids who like to experience things for themselves. In the end , they say "what is the big deal ?". They think that Adam ate the fruit because he was curious , not because he was tempted. They ignore #1 enemy of all humans. That is what Satan wants.

They just remind me of my former conversations with Satan , he was saying the same thing.

I think the guy who threw the bomb on Japanese people was thinking similar way.


Well I'm going to join the International Concatenated Order of Hoo-Hoo. My old man was a timber yard man, so why not.

All hail the holy oak, which ageth and keepeth the darkened spirit.

And may Douglas Fir have mercy on your fireplace to warm forever the cockles of your buttocks.

All Rise.

My last conversation with satan was rather terse. He tried to give me a "Jesus loves you" pamphlet. I cursed him in the name of the Holy Karri and walked off, the evil scum bag.

.. golly religion is a load of bollocks.. cult this cult that, oh look, a cult..



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 


I think you have to look at it in a historical context. Masons formed when you HAD to be a Christian, now people don't. With all due respect for your faith, there are some dumb strains of it, and I think a secret society where people could get away might be a big part of its history. These people were rationalists, they saw divinity in math (geometry) as many scientists due to some extent today. They were an incredibly influential group in history (scientists generally are) but as people have felt free to come out of the closet about their lack of faith, their influence has faded and its really just a boys club now. So if you want to warn about this boys club where faith in God is a requirement of membership, be my guest. Its just not that relevant, people question faith in the open now, to your face, not behind closed doors after a secret handshake like they used to in the past.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Yes Charles, there are many other groups you could join. Those who chose freemasonry do so of their own free will. And we take our oaths very seriously. In them, we make promises to do things like help out anyone who might need out assistance, not sleep with other peoples wife's, not tell everyone your trusted friends secrets. Terrible things like that.

We promise to follow the tenants of Faith, Hope, and Charity.

You know, from an outside ignorant perspective, one might say a catholic symbolically practices cannibalism and vampirism. Being a Catholic myself, I know that isn't true, nor the true meaning of that ritual, but you are doing the same thing by speaking of things you don't have full knowledge of.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by mideast
They just remind me of my former conversations with Satan , he was saying the same thing.


//starts looking for the door and quietly shuffles that way. "thinking, woo hoo, in my head" //



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by Carreau
 



Taken from his Introduction of "Mystic Masonry" Here is what Dr. Buck really thought of Christianity and religion:



Not the anti-Christian you try to make him out to be now is he?


What's clear is that J.D. Buck had no idea what he was pushing. He was pushing the "Greater Mysteries of Antiquity" which all lead back to magic and pagan worship that God tried to put an end to.

This is a common mistake today. People claiming to be "Christian" while practicing mysticism and magic thinking it's all a part of the faith, when they are being duped by the pagan demons of old.

Mysticism plays no part in Christianity and the Bible made that clear.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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The difference is subtle, but important. In this world, there are two types of people walking the path across the wilderness, but both are builders. Edgar Casey called the mind the builder and he noted this for good reason. None of us do anything to generate our world other than these two: We think and move only. If you reduce all things to their root position, the truth emerges clearly. Take away the multiplicity of divisions in our lives and focus your attention on the two thing we do. Thinking and movement are governed by will. Will is governed by law. If you act, law reacts. If you use the law wisely, it rewards you. If you break the law, it breaks you.

Will resides in three domains. We can have the will to take, receive or give. God's will is always to give and receive. The will of the thief is to take. The entire outline of the Bible expands this will, as applied to law, as a parable showing us how to think and move with the law instead of against. Intention is acting toward a hope. Intent is the design we apply toward a desire.

This is where we can note the difference between a true Christian builder taking the name of Christ and the builder rejecting the Chief Cornerstone of the temple. The cornerstone is the first stone set in place. It determines the rest of the building. If that cornerstone is rejected for another, the entire building crumbles. In this case, the Chief Cornerstone of Christ is the bedrock of giving. Taking is the Cornerstone rejected. Since our world is built by the Masons, the bricks are falling and we can clearly see the debt left by the thief.

God said, "Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated." Which one gives for what is harvested and which one harvests what was not earned? Abel was a Shepherd and Cain was a farmer. Cain gave the sacrifice of his works and Abel gave the sacrifice of his best unblemished animal. Why was Abel's sacrifice superior? Because our salvation cannot be earned by our works. The sacrifice is of our beast (Animal nature to be selfish). Abel gave his best first. Masons refer to themselves as the sons of Cain.

1 John 3:12

Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.

Satan's Seed is Cain. He was first born, yet Abel was the Lamb to the slaughter. Esau was first born, yet traded the birthright for a bowl of soup after killing Nimrod (Hunter). Repentance comes when we slay the beast and no before. We must lose our animal natures as our sacrifice, yet God does not intend to take our will. He only intends to see our faith and willingness to give him our best first. The best we can give is to follow His will and trade the will of the thief in for His will to give and receive only.

How, then, can we describe the Mason? They form private associations for gain behind closed doors. They hide their light under a bushel (Secrets) and swear oaths, as described by the OP, to the private good of the individual and not the corporate good of the many. Instead of offering their first and best to God, they offer the works of their hands thinking God will accept the offering of Cain.

Are there other differences? Yes. God calls us out of Egypt (Refinery) and into the promised land. Egypt represents the worthless mystery of the Pagans and the promised land is the true mystery held by Adam and Enoch. The Masons study the Mystery School religion of Osiris, which is the worthless mystery. Christians follow the true thread of truth given by Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Moses was required to know both and this is why he was schooled in Egypt, but answered the call of God to come out of Egypt with both perspectives understood. The true expression of the Mysteries were then revealed in the life of Christ, the Capstone of the temple.

Enoch One

And now as to the Watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them:

3 "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth." 4 Say to them therefore: " You have no peace."'

As I said before, resolve all stories to root truths and you can then know them by their fruit. As I show this, I am clearly aware that Christians lack in many of these same areas. What is the difference? Christians have no private associations and the temple doors are open. There are no secrets. While the Masons are living in Egypt and Babylon, the Christians are moving out of Egypt, crossing the wilderness between and entering the promised land with the Shepherd.

The difference is subtle, but tells the story of which Shepherd we follow. One gives and the other steals, kills and destroys. Theistic Satanism is the mirror to truth, believing the lie of knowledge and rejecting the one giving it.

edit on 19-6-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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Any mason still denying the real G they worship, baphomet, symbols behind black/white tile floors, etc
--they are lying for obvious reasons (oaths)
--they are not initiated enough yet
--they are the low IQ majority that have no clue, just a warm body and checkbook(masons isnt free btw)


The Christian/Freemason... gullible, follower, needing to "belong to something" out of psychological lack of suitable feeling of selfworth or endowment. SQUARED (x2)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by HanzHenry
 


if you were truly a christian, you would worry more about your own spiritual path and not try to judge others. But then I have yet to see very many TRUE Christians here. (you know, people who follow CHRIST'S teachings.)




posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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I don't know if this is worth going on about, but I'd like to spend a little more time on this business of the oaths of Freemasonry.

For me, an oath is like an oral contract with the Universe, as well as the person or group I'm making it to. I can't tell you the number of times I've been asked to promise to do X, Y, and Z, only to respond, "I'll promise to try, but my first priority is to ABC."

I examine the words of any oath I'm going to take and I make sure I can keep it before I agree to it. That's because I see oaths as important, vital to my image of myself as an honest and honorable man. If I take an oath, I will perform it, provided it doesn't result in someone's wrongful destruction, or violate an earlier oath. And I expect every word to mean what it says.

Many thanks to the posters who addressed the issue:

Those who chose freemasonry do so of their own free will. And we take our oaths very seriously.
As I would, were I to join. Yet we also have:

The "death" in the oath is the death of your membership not the person. Originally way back when masonry was first brought around actual death may have been a real penalty, but today it's no more than a symbolic death in the loss of membership, your masonic death not physical death.
Which says, the oath isn't really what it says, forget the words you're saying. It just means that if you break our rules you can't be part of the club. Which is the same message as every other club in existence, but none that I know of use such dreadful penalties in the oath.

The other thing, just brought up by this second comment, causes me to worry about the organization itself. Note that it is saying, we used to take our oath seriously and literally, but now we don't.

I'm sure Masons do some good things, and joining is by free will, but still, there's something that's just not quite right. It's as though, instead of meeting on the square, they're meeting on the 87 degree angle.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


in our oaths there are penalties. The penalties are symbolic. You are supposed to feel as if those terrible things happened to your conscience should you break your oath. Since your oath consists of things like not being a turd and treating others well, it's not hard to do. If you want, you can google the oaths. (as I am sure you already have)

Masonry isn't for the overzealous, so you may not like it.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Charles-
You're taking things out of context here. Back when it's likely death was a real penalty of violating ones oath, being a Mason was considered illegal. It was punishable by death at the churches hands. If someone betrayed they're oath(and if in fact they actually killed them for it) the penalty was to prevent them from ratting out the entire group to the church. As times changed so did society and being a Mason wasn't an offense punishable by death. Instead of completely rewriting their own history the penalties became more symbolic in nature. A little understanding of the times these oaths were originally written will help in your understanding of them. These weren't written recently, or in a time similar to ours in the grand scheme of things. They were written during and age where heretics and witches were murdered out of fear. And during a time when the death of a traitor was seen as acceptable. As times change so does society as a whole, including secret ones. There are some very good books and documentaries about the history of the Mason's and how as times have changed so have they as a group, much like the Catholic Church has changed over the centuries.

ETA: it's also worth noting that the penalty of death may not have even been handed down by the Mason's themselves but as a warning that if you were found out by an "outsider" the church may have you killed for being a Mason. So it may have been more of a warning that being a member came with some very real risks at the time, but from outside fsctors.
edit on 6/19/2013 by EViLKoNCEPTz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by EViLKoNCEPTz
 


Does that mean that the oaths have changed too?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


No the oaths haven't changed in words, only meaning. They became more symbolic as society became more acceptable of other cultures and groups. The Mason's don't like to rewrite their own history, they like to embrace it as it was for the good and the bad.





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