Improving schools is now a racist act?

reply to post by TheRedneck


im sorry but i also have to agree with the rest of the crew members, city school was horrible is still horrible. Kids are uncontrolable

the violence, the gangs, the fights, teacher's getting threatened even shot at

reply to post by Asktheanimals

That's a very sad state of affairs going on. Put yourself inside the head of the average school age kid today and what are they thinking?: "Even if I went to college (IF I could afford it) there aren't any jobs". "I'll just join the armed forces when I graduate, problem solved."

or "Join a gang, sell drugs and steal problem solved"

reply to post by Tlexlapoca


Sadly that's true of too many kids.
What makes it so bad is they actually do make a fair bit of money and can do it quickly.
Wads of cash seem very helpful in getting the attention of girls too.
Rap and HIp Hop have romanticized gang banging and bear a good deal of the guilt for these kids ever getting involved.
The rest of the blame lies squarely on the lame brains who thought drug prohibition was ever a feasible solution to anything.
The war on drugs has done more to destroy the black community than any other single cause.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

The war on drugs has done more to destroy the black community than any other single cause.

Amen.

What really sucks is that EVERY President, for the last 20 years and more, have failed to fix this, and the massive Unemployment that affects the inner cities and the Poor. Its not just a Black thing though. Its a Minority thing. As a Country, EVERYONE is an American. Why cant we get passed racial and color barriers? Why cant this be a cause EVERYONE fights for? Our schools should be the second place to break any barriers the past has put up. It all starts at home though.

I have noticed there are quite a few people in there pointing all the fingers at the parents. The truth is, there's a mix of problems going on here, which I can attest to firsthand. I was diagnosed with autism when I was 6 years old mostly on the premise of my not talking 'til I was 4 years old (but had good cognitive functioning for the most part otherwise) and also because I had some "odd" behaviors associated with autism. I won't get too much into it here but the teachers in the special education program have treated me like an idiot and would ask for a challenge at times only for my paraprofessional to tell me "no" or to tell me something along the lines of I can't do it or I'm simply not ready when I was doing other things just fine. I was stuck reading preschool-kindergarten reading level material until I was through with my 4th grade (spent close to an entire YEAR playing catch-up in my reading literacy).

Throughout middle school and high school, I have seen friends in special education who were being taught math stuff that I learned back in elementary school. I actually was able to visit a few classes with my friends who were in there and half if not most of the lecture time was FREE TIME! The kids weren't learning sh!t in their classes quite honestly. One guy I dated in middle school admitted he was in there because he was simply too lazy to do the schoolwork, yet the school insists he stay in the classes because they assume he can't actually do the work even though he said otherwise. Even one of my psychology teachers (who owns 3 businesses and is a rather successful woman to say the least ha ha) from my former community college thinks that some of these special education kids need to be re-evaluated because some just downright don't belong in those classes (yet not too many think to do this sadly).

Point is, it's not always the parents' fault. I mean in my personal experience, all of the work I have done learning to read at the appropriate reading level (and a little beyond actually) and comprehension level... the school took credit for even though they didn't do # to help me. They lied to my parents about how much they helped me over the years and such when I was being re-evaluated end of 5th grade to see if I need to be in special ed after that (was free after that thankfully!). I eventually came out with the truth as to how the teachers REALLY treated me to my parents. My mother was deeply saddened this happened to me, both parents were absolutely HORRIFIED. I hid my inability to read at my reading level rather well because of being that EMBARRASSED. It angered me to see people point the finger all at the parents when the truth is, there are a wide range of factors.

I didn't get the best education not due to my race but bc of some label a psychologist decided to brand on me as a child (which is a diagnosis my dad questions to this day and now myself after having read the diagnosis papers and doing research). Was it because my parents didn't care? Absolutely not! They had no idea how horribly the school treated me as a child because they literally lied to my parents about it and I hid the truth from shame. I think that improving schools is being blocked or hindered at this point because of many reasons. Race is one of them and it's also because of the government. There's a lot of changes going on in the world, everyone knows the education system needs to be changed. The question at this point is how to go about it.

I hope my post brings about a different perspective instead of people playing the blame game (which really gets NOTHING done btw).

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by digital01anarchy
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

crestline california

Is the cost of living high? Perhaps her salary isn't that much when you consider cost of living.

lol cost of living is way high in California but not that high. you cant live on 8 dollars an hour that's for sure but at 7,500 a month even with 3 kids i don't think it was an issue house payments probably 2,500 then 300 dollar electric "big house" gas 70 or 80 dollars trash 150 water 200 phone 100 internet 40 cable 60 food 1000 = 5 people living in the house lol a 3 story house, 3 cars so 200 dollars a month in gas.

that still leaves 3000 dollars in the bank. They have a house that's 3 stories 5 bedrooms, fireplace, entertainment room, kitchen. 3 bathrooms overlooking a lake, they have a 4 car garage, a Jacuzzi, 60 inch screen tv,a personal bar, two very large decks, they bought the property below them to keep the view of the lake, and they bought the house next to them for 90 grand one bedroom one bath, living room and deck its two stories. they own 3 cars a acura tl, jeep Laredo and a subaro forester for teaching children how to finger paint correctly and count to 50. And to top it off she believes she earned every bit of it and should have been paid more. Plus her pension is super high and she will collect it for her whole life. 1 college loan in the late 80's for her masters maybe 40 grand back them her father paid for her BA.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Wow.

Okay, that's so...depressing.

reply to post by rainprincess64


Yes, I fathom what your saying but that fact is the most of problems DO start from home and related events.

we blame the parents because that is where the Majority of students have inherited their problems from. AND of course there are always exceptions like you say "ITS NOT ALWAYS THE PARENTS FAULT" of course or someone has a sickness and is not getting proper help.
But what this is most focused on is 'Whats the major problem here?' and the major problem is kids are not focusing and most are out of control. Why are they out of control?
When you include race, gang, government ect it all falls into 1 category Abuse. which indicates students abusing other students or teachers and teachers abusing students, parents abusing, police ect..

Originally posted by Tlexlapoca
reply to post by rainprincess64

 

Yes, I fathom what your saying but that fact is the most of problems DO start from home and related events.

we blame the parents because that is where the Majority of students have inherited their problems from. AND of course there are always exceptions like you say "ITS NOT ALWAYS THE PARENTS FAULT" of course or someone has a sickness and is not getting proper help.
But what this is most focused on is 'Whats the major problem here?' and the major problem is kids are not focusing and most are out of control. Why are they out of control?
When you include race, gang, government ect it all falls into 1 category Abuse. which indicates students abusing other students or teachers and teachers abusing students, parents abusing, police ect..

Oh no I get what everyone is saying and I agree a lot of problems do start in the home for sure. It's just that there are a lot of factors at play here and it's somewhat unfair to point it all at one source. The truth is, when we take a step back and see the bigger picture or the "big scheme of things", we should be addressing multiple problems from multiple sources. Parents are definitely the source for many problems for sure, yet there are a lot of crap teachers out there too. Plus a lot of the school boards and even the government also play a big role in our school system's failures today.

At the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the students themselves as to whether or not they get the best out of the education they receive (or even don't receive). People could be in the "best" schools in the world and not learn jack #, while people in the "worst" schools learn a life's worth of lessons. It depends on the students too, not just everyone else (parents, teachers, school board members, the government, etc.).

reply to post by rainprincess64


oh ok i see what your saying like for example lets say there are 3 problems A B C.

A is the biggest or first problem 1
B is the second 2
C is third 3

So we are all going to focus on trying to solve problem A because its the biggest problem. Meanwhile problem B and C will just get worse. When B becomes greater than A then were all gonna focus on trying to solve B and ignore A. a years later since we ignored problem C then it becomes problem #1 and then were gonna ignore problems A & B and focus on A, then go back to A then back to B and C and so on so on, so basically were just gonna keep going in circles, "like a scheme", instead of just focusing on all 3 problems to end the cycle.

I wonder if we can solve the education system in a mathematical equation
C< B
A>B


A=1
B=2
C=3

formulas:

1>2 1>3
23
3

Some interesting reading:

The increasing diversity of American society has led to more complex issues related to school and ethnic proportion. In the 1994 federal court case Ho v. San Francisco Unified School District, parents of Chinese American schoolchildren alleged that racial quotas under a 1983 consent decree constituted racial discrimination in violation of the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause. The desegregation plan did not allow any school to enroll more than 50 percent of any ethnic group. Originally intended to aid integration of blacks, the ruling had a negative effect on the admissions of Chinese students, who had become the largest ethnic group in the district.

Source
Doesn't appear to be just a problem for white people, black students are of course effected also.

From the news I've been reading this situation appears to have occurred by accident, as in the officials involved thought it wouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure desegregation can be effective in this capacity anyway.

So long as poor economic conditions cause poverty, and poverty leads to poor family life which leads to ineffective education and parents choose schools by the results they produce, desegregation as an effort will be neutered and education quality will be associated with race despite best efforts. (Poverty and family life I believe are bigger contributors)

You could argue that it might inadvertently allow black students a preference to potentially break the poverty cycle, but that's a very slow solution that might just upset more people.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Which brings up the question: why are the schools with the most money failing?

Might be wrong, but I suspect the issue is that money injected into a poor school doesn't solve the real issue which is generations of poverty and poor living which may not be able to be solved in a single generation. Increasing minimum wage or doing something whacky like spreading students from disadvantaged backgrounds rather than clumping them together might do more. (Probably still upset folks though!)

reply to post by Pinke

Might be wrong, but I suspect the issue is that money injected into a poor school doesn't solve the real issue which is generations of poverty and poor living which may not be able to be solved in a single generation. Increasing minimum wage or doing something whacky like spreading students from disadvantaged backgrounds rather than clumping them together might do more. (Probably still upset folks though!)

If the real problem is poverty, then the solution is education. Kinda ironic, isn't it?

The one thing that sets achievers apart from non-achievers is education. Even if one looks at those few who succeeded despite a poor formal education, one will see a desire to learn. What we need to do is to make it important to kids to want to learn. We have to show them there's something in it for them. What good is the honor roll when it doesn't make them more popular, more respected among their peers, or even make their life easier? We need to actively promote academic success, and I again think the best way to do this is to establish a semi-formal part-time minimum-wage school-based job market to make the better students into teachers aides, giving them some respect among their peers and a couple bucks in their pocket, and also helping the other students learn more.

Poverty can exist alongside hope. The problem is when there is no hope for a future outside of poverty. American kids are not dumber than their global counterparts; they are just more disgusted than their global counterparts. Kids want to learn, as long as learning is fun and rewarding. But punishing a class for the actions of a few kills the fun and makes the rewards seem unachievable... why try when you know someone else is going to just take it away from you? Why try when the teacher won't explain the answers to your questions? Why try when it just gets you beat up after school and picked on the rest of the time?

People try when they have hope for a better future, and we have finally taken that away. The school is failing, verified by hard numbers, and your only hope for a better school seems to be moving to another one.... but wait, you can't do that because of the color of your skin!

Talk about a good way to get rid of hope!

That's what has me up in arms over this... at least Alabama is trying to fix the problem by making schools accountable for bad results. But the Federal government is stepping up and declaring that they can't do that. We're stuck with the same old failing system... and we can't even try to fix it.

Moving people around by law or regulation won't work... that's the whole problem now! Give people a choice, make sure they face the consequences of their choices, and they will usually make the right choice. Take away their choices, or make the consequences of their choices irrelevant, and they won't bother spending enough time to make an informed choice.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


but you cant have a good education without a good economic system and you cant have a good economic system with corrupted corporations and you cant have corrupted corporations without the help of corrupted politicians letting it slide

Originally posted by Tlexlapoca
reply to post by rainprincess64

 

oh ok i see what your saying like for example lets say there are 3 problems A B C.

A is the biggest or first problem 1
B is the second 2
C is third 3

So we are all going to focus on trying to solve problem A because its the biggest problem. Meanwhile problem B and C will just get worse. When B becomes greater than A then were all gonna focus on trying to solve B and ignore A. a years later since we ignored problem C then it becomes problem #1 and then were gonna ignore problems A & B and focus on A, then go back to A then back to B and C and so on so on, so basically were just gonna keep going in circles, "like a scheme", instead of just focusing on all 3 problems to end the cycle.
...

Yup that is exactly what I am saying ha ha! Balance out the priorities instead of focusing on one at a time

reply to post by TheRedneck


I completely agree with you that kids in other parts of the world aren't necessarily smarter as you said but I think they are simply more "disciplined" or more willing to learn. Here in the States it seems that the morons set the pace for everything, let it be the laws that are set in place, classroom policies, workplace rules, etc., therefore punishing everyone else who are well not morons. As I like to say, there's always one or two morons who f*ck it up for everyone else. There seems to be a lot of "sue-happy" people and people who generally like to play the victim here and it ends up costing our freedoms too if you think about it. I mean there really seems to be very little reward for doing well here unless you're filthy rich or something and is far easier to be "punished" because of some incompetent fool or otherwise very selfish individual screwing it up for everyone else. It's kind of ironic how America is supposedly the land of opportunity, yet young people see otherwise (and even some adults now too).

This is a seriously misleading thread. The article has nothing to do with "improving schools", it is about a select few changing schools. Unless you are saying that having white children move to a school improves it... hopefully that's not the case.

I still cannot understand how most human minds can't make the evolutionary leap of realizing cause and effect when it comes to race and choice. Black kids grow up in homes with less income because their parent's are discriminated against. They see their parents work hard to get almost nothing in return. Then they are told they must work hard at learning a white co-opted history, to fit into white standards, to try and get a job where they will most likely be discriminated against, just like their parents. Would this be appealing to you? Would you want to sit down in a classroom all day knowing where it will eventually lead you?

No matter how hard a black person works, they will always have to deal with people paying attention to the stereotypes associated with their skin and not their skills. At this point in history, white people need to humble themselves, and learn from the black members of their human family, even if it hurts our pride. If these white parents want a better school for their children, then they should get involved to improve the ones they are in.

reply to post by Tlexlapoca

So we're right back to a corrupt Federal system... right?


reply to post by dulce5cinco

The article has nothing to do with "improving schools", it is about a select few changing schools. Unless you are saying that having white children move to a school improves it... hopefully that's not the case.

That is the opposite of what I am saying. The exact opposite.

Why does a distinction need to be drawn between black and white? Please, explain this to me, because I really and truly don't get it. Is dark skin superior to light skin? Vice-versa? Why? What is it about skin color that causes some people to lose all logical reasoning skills? Does eye color count? How about hair color? If not, why not? What's so special about skin?

I am saying there is no difference due to skin color, and the Federal laws are forcing a difference.

As to not improving schools, what exactly is your plan? Under the Accountability Act, schools that don't make the grade stand to lose students, which equates to losing money, which equates to losing job positions... that sounds like a really good incentive plan to me: shape up, or we'll let people take away your captive audience. What else would you do? Throw money at it? I already explained that the failing schools are some of the best funded. Pass another regulation? Oh, that's worked out real swell so far.

No matter how hard a black person works, they will always have to deal with people paying attention to the stereotypes associated with their skin and not their skills.

Oh, spare me. Really. No matter how hard I work, no matter how much I do, no matter how much money I make or how much power I achieve, people will always subtract 100 IQ points from their first impression of me... BECAUSE OF THE WAY I TALK. I will endure the endless jokes:

• "What do you call a woman in the South with all her teeth?" "A tourist!"
  
• "What's the difference between hillbillies and rednecks?" "Hillbillies raise farm animals, rednecks get intimate with them!"
  
• "What do you call 140 IQ in the South?" "A mob!"
  
• "What do you call a redneck with a new car?" "Grand theft auto!"
  
• "How do you amuse rednecks?" "A keg of beer and a bug zapper!"
  
• "Alabama - where men are men and sheep are scared!"

Ad infinitum. Despite the fact I just received my Engineering Associates with a GPA of 3.899 and was accepted to UAH, one of the top Engineering Universities in the nation with a scholarship... I'm still just a dumb old redneck to most people. And I ignore them. I know who and what I am, and I am proud of it! You should be proud of who you are as well... everyone should!

What you are complaining about is equality. Everyone hears stereotypical jokes... blondes, Southerners, Yankees (I got some good ones for them! ), Auburn football fans... Everyone has to deal with people not liking them at some time or another... it's just that most people don't try to make not liking them illegal. I can't... because if everyone who disliked me were committing a crime, we could just build a wall around the country and save money.

Try it... work hard, work smart, without complaining and you'll find out you'll have more respect than you can shake a stick at, whether you're black, brown, pink, green, blue, yellow, or orange with lavender polka-dots. There's a lot of people like me who don't see skin color as anything more than hair color, but we certainly notice entitlement attitudes and constant complaining.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I gave you the benefit of the doubt until I read your response here. There was a recent thread about this very topic in Louisiana, discussed extensively, which can be found here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Segregation in Huntsville does still exist, only it is defined by socioeconomic boundary lines. Please see the median household income graphic in the following link:
www.city-data.com...

Every one of Huntsville City's 9 failing public schools (of 20 located throughout the entire city) found in this video (see 35 seconds in) are located northwest of the city, are marked by extreme percentages of free or reduced lunch plans (greater than 80% of the total school population) and are overwhelmingly populated by black and minority students.

Take, for example, the following two middle schools: Chapman and Edward White
Chapman serves 323 total students; Edward White serves 443. The total percentage of minority students is 82% and 98%, respectively. That means that out of 323 students in Chapman MS, 58 students are white (nearly 1 in 5), and in Edward White MS, out of 443 students, 9 total students are white (1 in 50). In a city where the total MAJORITY of inhabitants are white (58%), versus 31% black, these are staggering and statistically significant figures and prove that this is a racially segregated area of the city.

This is where your argument begins to fall apart. You claim that white people are being forced to stay in failing schools. These remarks are inflamatory and incorrect based on the statistics. The students in Chapman MS, where the population of white to black students is a mere 1 to 5, did SIGNIFICANTLY worse on their standardized tests than did Edward White MS where the population of white to black students is 1 to 50 i.e. almost exclusively black! For score reports for both schools, see the following links:

Chapman: www.education.com...-scores
Edward White: www.education.com...-and-teachers

This is not a racial issue. 1 in 5 of those Chapman MS students were white and contributed just as much to those staggeringly low test scores as did the black children. Meanwhile, a MS of similar size and location that is comprised of 98% minority students did significantly better on their test scores (despite receiving failing marks for the school).

In short, 58 prodigous white students are not being held hostage against their will at Chapman, plotting their escapes through the windows and down the fire escapes in pursuit of better scholastic opportunities somewhere over the rainbow. Nor are they are being kept at these schools to increase a failing school's test scores- the scores simply aren't there, regardless of race at these schools! That is a socioeconomic issue that starts at home with the parents; it comes from self-esteem and pride instilled in the student base and a healthy respect for learning and educational achievement that begins with effective prenatal care and universal access to effective preprimary education. These students are all victims of a broken system- white, black and every other demographic group who has the misfortune of being financially trapped in Huntsville's northwest section. I don't see this being an issue in Huntsville's affluent east/southeast section, where household income averages over $100,000 annually...

Stop turning this into a white/black issue. It's a socioeconomic issue that affects all low resourced students in Huntsville, not to mention every other city...

The problems vary from State to State, many generalizations here that really do little to get to he Root of the problems, problems I might add that are by Deliberate design.

To the OP I would say, your state is Very different, eg., like what you describe in your last comment about race and education...it would Not be the same outcome in my state or other states I've resided in, and that has a lot to do with the national policies that enforced, may not really apply to certain areas and why they cause more problems than good.

As to the whole inner cities, Quite the reverse where my oldest attended school, which then was public, the Inner City schools were far better and VERY RACIALLY DIVERSE, where as when we moved to the suburbs the public schools were Horrendous, and why we homeschooled for several years.

But now, my two youngest, go to a Charter School, in an all WHITE "RICH" neighborhood, and guess what?

It's THE WORST,

For students on Drugs, majority of them on Probation, many on psychotropics (forced via probation as a cure to their drug/alcohol problems, and uh, it's not working these kids are getting more violent etc) and well,

The few teachers to a high number of students, think my two are like angels...no kidding, maybe it has something to do with all the years of Homeschooling, or maybe because being Liberal Independents (we are not conservatives but wouldn't say typical liberals as far as moral liberal goes, in other words we don't buy into the whole hedonist Permissive society NOR the neocon fascist society hype) and those influences and open communication Which the State has tried to destroy at one time in our life I might add...

Or maybe because we taught Critical thinking and Questionng authority but in a respectful mindful of others kind of way, etc...they say Thank You and Know their manners but they are not Nazi loving slaves either, encouraged to listen to their Internal value system and not be brainwashed "mindless clones for the corporatist machine"...

But Point being,

It's Not inner city schools or blacks, etc., that are Problem schools or those bad parents (you can Blame the State for Undermining parents through Both schools and their SS CPS/Mental Health Stazi minions for That one and the policies that Weaken family, community and INDIVIDUALS)

It's the STATISM that's the problem, always has been. As for the Charter School, the homeschool curric both my kids were using was Way tougher and they've had to SERIOUSLY dumb down for the In an ALL High class WHITE neighborhood area school,

The public schools are worse than the charter. And here's the worst part...we live in a state that has the Most College grads than most...so what gives here?

We've debated going back to the prior homeschool curric but the STATE has harassed this program so much that the Standards are beyond ridiculous, the workload alone was making my eldest physically suck, ten hours a day seven days a week, the equivalent of an eighteen hour credit college level semester...and WHY?

Because over all the STATE fascist were losing Money, those head counts, it's all about those head counts and federal dollars...counties bid and lie and they do not care about the Kids...it's all one big money racket.

We switched to the Charter to give the kids a much needed break from the over intense workload...but we Never expected it to be That Dumbed Down, constantly monitored by the PoPo and CPS just looking for the next kid to lure into their drug test lab rat snare...

And These again, are well to do upper middle class WHITE kids.

Do we blame Those parents too? How about the one teacher, lol, my daughter had that didn't even know proper English??? She's nice and all, don't get me wrong not trying to demonize her, but Seriously,

It's the System, can't just toss it off to the "oh it's those unruly gang bangers" or "well it's those blasted parents"

No, it's a host of reasons, and the STATE Uses or Exploits them, as the better operative word, for their OWN AGENDAS...

I do find it interesting though, that schools have always insisted that Homeschoolers are Religiously indoctornating, etc...

But for the First time, in both the Homeschool Corp curric And the Charter school, the kids had to waive through three months of Islamic Doctrine,

No kidding. Didn't see ACLU storming the doors to protest it either, fortunately, my kids already had years of world geography and Cultures and are well knowledges in human right abuses, to Think clearly and Critically enough,

To call BULLKAKI when they see BULLKAKI.

But not so much for the other hundred students or so...most don't even know where India is on a map. And again, That's a WHITE SUBURB YUPPIE SCHOOL,

So go figure.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Masters in education, plus.

I got about an 8th grade education and I make 200k plus...yep you need to move...