They have good reason to be worried. Their situation will not be getting better anythime soon.


BG

As long as the Bush Administration is hell bent on dennying gay people their rights then they have a very good reason to be worried. What if this causes a backlash of violence against gays? Many things can go wrong.

I really don't know what to make of all this, but I have two short points.

(yes, I like numbering things)

1) I don't think that they are being unafforded any rights that they have had before, so let's please not get out of hand like they are subjegated.

Some of the things they are asking for are perfectly right. I think we should be able to include anyone we want in our legal family.

2) Let's try to keep the religion and the rightwing folks seperate regardless of what a few nutbags are shouting. They may be the loudest, but they are not the majority by far.

I cannot believe so much time and energy is being wasted on such a matter. Do we really care if two men or two woman marry? I sure the hell don't but that may be because I'm not religous. Why does anyone have a problem with this?

It's so sad and it makes my heart hurt! I have a regular at work, a very nice man...he has had several strokes and is in a wheel chair. He brings his little Pom in. He really loves that dog, and because he is gay, people keep trying to poison it. I just can't stand it....it is the lowest, most cowardly, piece of low life scum that will kill something innocent became they don't like the owner. People have cut his phone lines, trashed his car...the police don't seem to to try to do much. I think it is an absolute travesty....in the name of "family values" this is what kids should be taught is family values!?

Isn't that from a movie. Sounds like "As Good As it Gets" with Jack Nicholson.

Because the gov't and 51% of the supposed population does. This is very muddy. Just because someone voted Republican it's being represented that they are against gay union. Maybe they voted that way because of the War, economic policy, whatever but it's being used to slap gay rights.

Yeah, you really have a seperation of church and state.
Just like you have checks and balances.

Despite them marrying or not the stance of bush in the white house against gays overall will bring a new group of people out there in a crusade of their own and I am afraid that in the name of Jesus and the bible we are going to see a new intolerance rate against gays in this nation, I am afraid of hate crimes.

NO it most certainly is not! It'sa very sad situation that is happening here and it upsets me...so tell me..how does that sound like that movie!? If I am remembering that movie correctly, the main character (Nicholson) was not gay, he had mental issues, he was not in a wheelchair...WTF are you talking about!?

Nice avatar Ocelot Great minds think alike.

I wish people would leave religion out of it. The bible is full of laws or commands that are selectively followed by various christian denominations. It would be much more logical to take it as a consitutional or bill of rights issue. If all citizens are equal under the law (though in reality women aren't, but that's a whole n'other argument 8- ) then if hetero couples are recognized and afforded certain rights and privileges under the law, then everyone should be.

There are two ways to go with this -

"OMG you could marry your grandma or your neighbor just to get marriage benefits. "

This is a bit histrionic, but I've heard it often enough. Solution - get rid of special rights for married couples. No one would marry grandma for the tax breaks if there weren't any tax breaks.

"WOW gays have relationships just like hets."

Recognize that gay people in marriage-like relationships want some of the basic legal protections married hets get. Inheritance rights, medical decision rights, custody rights, etc.


As it stands, gay couples have to spend thousands to get what het couples get for the price of a license and marriage ceremony. Hostile relatives can prevent one partner from even visiting the other in hospital, they can take children away from a surviving partner, they can override medical and/or financial wishes if a partner is incapacitated. The list goes on.

There are so many issues that straight people take for granted when it comes to why gay people want to be married. It boils down to the concept that all citizens should be equal under the law, and if a man or woman has special rights because they are married, then so should gay couples. Or else no couples shouls have those rights, and everyone should have to pay lawyers to draw up the pertinent documents to protect families.

I have to say, that i had the good fortune to work with lots of gay people at a publishing company i worked for 15 years. If i had to chose between straight and gays i would pick the gays handsdown. This business with the dog just goes to show how ignorant and sick people are

Tell me about it, is better to ignored the real ignorants, around.

I thought we have some changes on the name calling allowance around the boards.

KrazyJethro is referring to Nicholson’s neighbour in the movie, who was gay, in a wheel chair and had a little dog. It actually does sound very similar to the situation in the movie.

It's not just a republican/democrat split.

The perfect example is Oregon - a state which went to Kerry and passed a gay marriage ban at the same time.

It's only a matter of time, though. This rash of marriage bans is just a lashing out of fear at something which isn't fully understoood.

There is a reason that this is all happening now:
Just twenty years ago, you could barely whisper the word gay. Now it's everywhere. People are openly gay; there are gays on television and in movies.
Twenty years ago you didn't need a gay marriage ban because it wasn't an issue. Now it is an issue. And it's only a matter of time before they get their rights.
It's a shame, that in America, they have to fight for them at all.

If Kerry had won Ohio, he would be president right now.

The referendum would still have failed in all 11 states where it was on the ballot.

Why are you blaming Bush? It's because it is much easier to blame him than to look at reality - people are unwilling to accept gay marriage.

That kind of emotional, irrational thinking is as much a barrier to progress as evangelicals are.

And, BTW, I know quite a few Kerry supporters, Democrats, who are against gay marriage. What can we learn from that? Hopefully, at the very least, that it is not strictly a Republican thing, as some are trying to make it.

Exactly. Kerry, himself, is against gay marriage.

Don't judge a whole cart by a few bad apples.

More propaganda, more meaningless drivel that is supposed to pull at heatstrings.

How about some facts, though?

Homosexuals have no rights as homosexuals. They never have had them, and they never will, although one day congress may created "rights" for them.

Homosexuals have the same rights as human beings as the rest of us. As this is a Christian nation, however, the idea of the majority of the citizenry wanting their culture and society further degraded and weakened by such ideas. There is no conspiracy against the "homosexual", unless you count the attempts to twart the left-wing conspiracy a conspiracy in itself. I'm sure many here do believe that. Funny how the adherence to the ethics and morals that have been with this nation since its foundation is not a conspiracy of some sort, and one can reasonably account the 11 states' amendments protecting family values and marriage to the Mass ruling for civil unions, which is the counterculture move, traditional morals is acounted for as "homosexual-baiting". This is laughable. What you are seeing is the proper response on the attack of traditional family values, and you can thank the attack for the election day turnout that kept Bush in office.

Of course, no one said it will be easy.

The morals and ethics this country was founded on have been at the root of discrimination against one group of people after another since its formation.

The only traditional family value is LOVE and its near total absence in this nation clearly can't be blamed on homosexuals.


[edit on 8-11-2004 by quango]