reply to post by jammybunn
The answer will vary, and in some respects can be extensive. And yet.. the fact is. .none of it will be conclusive or a perfect right on answer..
because the simple fact is... we don't know. The bible's smallest topic is death. Or rather, what happens after death. In the old testament there
were rules to follow and only God's "Chosen" people to me, seemed like the ones who would make it into heaven. In the New Testament it was by faith
of Jesus, because as he explained it, when we die, we will stand before God to account for our sins.. but because he died for those sins, then anyone
who believed in that and had faith in him.. he will instead stand up and state "her/his sins belong to me, they are paid for already" But the bible
is never clear, nor mentions those who didn't even know of Jesus or before him, etc. So, here is my own personal theory after reading the bible
1. We are told that Jesus is the "word" of God.. and the term "word of God" shows up repeatedly in the OT. So, therefore, we know, or at least to
me, it would seem that Jesus, Just as God and the Holy spirit, was always there.
2. There is a moment in the OT, where Saul is going to be heading into battle, and he goes to a fortune teller who calls Abraham up from his sleep,
because Saul wants her to contact him so that he knows what he should do. Abraham admonishes him for waking him from his great sleep (death) and for
seeking him out, rather than God. Saul then loses the battle, because he did not have faith in God. This is one part of where the belief of psychics
and fortune tellers being "ungodly" comes from. Because you should seek out God and have faith in him for your life path other than a fortune
teller. Anyway.. we see here, that it appears that Abraham was "sleeping' and called up to speak to Saul.. not apparently, in Heaven.
3. Jesus told us.. no one, not even moses has been to heaven
4. In revelations there is actually a lot of info. We are told that in the end times, the dead in Christ (those who died believing in Christ) are
called up when he returns and taken off to heaven right away. Immediately given white robes and then have to wait till the end times are over to get
to go to the new Earth... So, therefore.. not in heaven immediately after they die.. only after Christ has come back. Many christians believe that
when the end times come, we will also be "raptured" .. Revelations never actually says this.. it says 144,000 are taken, the rest are kept here to
5. The bible then says.. in the very very end.. there is a multitude in heaven, such as never seen before... and those found in the book of life go on
to heaven as well as the new earth, those not found.. are sent to hell. So again... no one in heaven yet.
6. Revelations also reads out.. that those who did not believe in Christ, but then do so after the great war between of the end times, are excepted.
We then, apparently live here again on a new Earth, with a new Jerusalem, in peace for 1000 years.
7. Revelations than states.. that the devil again is let loose (have no idea why) and God finally finally ends everything. And everyone who was in the
city and had faith in God and Jesus, go on to heaven... and those who did not, it states... that they are wiped out. If you read it, you will notice..
in ever ever says, that they go to hell to be tormented for all eternity, it states, clearly that the devil, all his cohorts and all those who
completely turned from God and Jesus are as smoke.. as if they were never here at all, ever, they are just, gone. as if they were never made or born.
My advice? Read the OT, the NT and Revelations, you might get a completely different interpertation than me, as you can see from the answers..
everyone gets it differently. And, no two answers are alike.. because no one knows for sure, all we have to tell us, are religious books, those who
have died, claimed to have seen something and have come back, and our own interpertation on what we read.