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Ontario couple finds 400-year-old skeleton, gets $5,000 bill...

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posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 


This is the exact reason why Archeology is such a tough science to progress. We have so much red tape in the field. I can't imagine the archeologists on the dig would want the property owner to soak the costs on this, especially since they have far more limited resources than the government.




posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Pervius
It's a smart tactic by the Canadian Government.....gotta hide the fact that someone else once lived in Canada and they had to be slaughtered off by the White Invaders.

Keeps all the truth out of history books. Get the public to fear announcing they found a mass grave full of Indians.....that were slaughtered off by their ancestors under the King of England.

Why do Canadian's call them "aboriginals".....they're Indians. "Aboriginals" are the native people of Australia....the other holocaust of the English Empire.

And your ancestors are lilly white?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 


I am no archeologist, but what would stop me "if I found an old skeleton" from doing my own dig site? I think I could go and buy my own tools and do exactly the same thing they would do. Is it illegal to do a dig by myself if I am not an archeologist? 1) dig 2)set up tent 3)sell tickets to see the old stuff 4) let the authorities know that I have found a body. No need to dig in my back yard I already did it



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by VoidWalker
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 
I am no archeologist, but what would stop me "if I found an old skeleton" from doing my own dig site? I think I could go and buy my own tools and do exactly the same thing they would do. Is it illegal to do a dig by myself if I am not an archeologist? 1) dig 2)set up tent 3)sell tickets to see the old stuff 4) let the authorities know that I have found a body. No need to dig in my back yard I already did it
I hear what you're saying...let me break it down for you:
OK, first off, if you live in Ontario, it is against the Ontario Heritage Act to conduct archaeological fieldwork without a licence from the Ministry of Recreation, Culture and Sport (or whatever they call themselves this week). There are also requirements laid out under the Ontario Cemeteries Act, and penalties for violating both acts. Maybe criminal code, too...not sure.

If you find human remains, you are obligated to call the police. A coroner or lab will determine if the remains are forensic or archaeological in nature. If they are archaeological, then there has to be some determination as to whether they are European or First Nations. Some age needs to be assigned to the remains. Chances are, though, that the FN will already have been called in for the exhumations, and as that is being done, the spiritual necessities will be attended to.

DIY? I can buy a set of sockets, but that doesn't make me a mechanic. There is technique involved that may not be apparent. This is a science that destroys its database so everything must be noted and mapped. Samples of soil may be taken for biological analysis. Archaeology is about more than just 'old stuff'. It is about getting the whole site to tell you its story. That requires a lot of training to master.

Selling tickets to see the remains? That takes a certain amount of dignity from them, wouldn't you say? These days, retrieving indigenous human remains is generally done with discretion...something that also serves the spiritual needs of the FN. I would even call it culturally insensitive of the Star to publish those photos...I'm sure the Anishnaabe feel that way.

I know your questions are benign and humorous in intent, yet there are a whole lot of reasons why it is a bad idea. I haven't covered it all but you get the gist. The system in place is flawed. We need to fix it, as it impacts on both the homeowner and the archaeological community...not to mention the descendants of those discovered. We're working on it.

If you want to try it yourself, get involved with the local archaeological society. Often they provide supervised excavation opportunities for members. No burials though.
edit on 19-6-2013 by JohnnyCanuck because: it needed clarity, eh?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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Why do Canadian's call them "aboriginals".....they're Indians. "Aboriginals" are the native people of Australia....the other holocaust of the English Empire.


actually Canadian's should be calling them aboriginal(meaning indigenous), or more correctly, First Nation's.

"Indian" was used, cuz Columbus that he was in India. Therefore, Indian is actually the racist and unacceptable name for them. learned that from my First Nations friends! AGREED on the first holocaust thing though!



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by VoidWalker
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 
I am no archeologist, but what would stop me "if I found an old skeleton" from doing my own dig site? I think I could go and buy my own tools and do exactly the same thing they would do. Is it illegal to do a dig by myself if I am not an archeologist? 1) dig 2)set up tent 3)sell tickets to see the old stuff 4) let the authorities know that I have found a body. No need to dig in my back yard I already did it
I hear what you're saying...let me break it down for you:
OK, first off, if you live in Ontario, it is against the Ontario Heritage Act to conduct archaeological fieldwork without a licence from the Ministry of Recreation, Culture and Sport (or whatever they call themselves this week). There are also requirements laid out under the Ontario Cemeteries Act, and penalties for violating both acts. Maybe criminal code, too...not sure.

If you find human remains, you are obligated to call the police. A coroner or lab will determine if the remains are forensic or archaeological in nature. If they are archaeological, then there has to be some determination as to whether they are European or First Nations. Some age needs to be assigned to the remains. Chances are, though, that the FN will already have been called in for the exhumations, and as that is being done, the spiritual necessities will be attended to.

DIY? I can buy a set of sockets, but that doesn't make me a mechanic. There is technique involved that may not be apparent. This is a science that destroys its database so everything must be noted and mapped. Samples of soil may be taken for biological analysis. Archaeology is about more than just 'old stuff'. It is about getting the whole site to tell you its story. That requires a lot of training to master.

Selling tickets to see the remains? That takes a certain amount of dignity from them, wouldn't you say? These days, retrieving indigenous human remains is generally done with discretion...something that also serves the spiritual needs of the FN. I would even call it culturally insensitive of the Star to publish those photos...I'm sure the Anishnaabe feel that way.

I know your questions are benign and humorous in intent, yet there are a whole lot of reasons why it is a bad idea. I haven't covered it all but you get the gist. The system in place is flawed. We need to fix it, as it impacts on both the homeowner and the archaeological community...not to mention the descendants of those discovered. We're working on it.

If you want to try it yourself, get involved with the local archaeological society. Often they provide supervised excavation opportunities for members. No burials though.
edit on 19-6-2013 by JohnnyCanuck because: it needed clarity, eh?


Yea yea they KNOW the law is flawed, like so Many laws, but hey, what's ruining the life of a slave peasant, or forcing their kids to go hungry or not have medical care because well, OMG the needs of the uga rich body of POWERS are just Soooooo much more important, and well Platitudes work,

Ya know, LET THEM EAT CAKE.

Well, Maybe, when those families Get those 5,ooo bills for alerting that there is remains that THEY THEMSELVES DIDN'T PUT THERE,

Maybe, if the authorities want to be Asses, and charge 5,ooo, then ADD another 5,ooo to the Extram remains that are gonna be ADDED to the ones found,

MAYBE when PEASANTS get SO FED UP with the BULLKAKA

And start making their OWN graves of Robber Barons

Things THEN

Will move beyond PLATITUDES,

ya think?

They gonna Keep pushing the Peasant Slaves till one day, the Slaves gonna snap,

And there won't BE enough GULAGS to house then all....just saying,

So the whole Platitude, oh we Kniw there is flaws, to That I say, a big F them,

They can take their knowing of flaws and take Ownership of their Robber Baron ways...stop the Transferring of their crap onto Innocents,

Or, we can have another Danton, Danton...
edit on 19-6-2013 by ThreeBears because: Addition



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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Sometimes doing the right thing entails a hefty bill on top.

Just don't report this kind of # I guess



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by chronicTRE
Sometimes doing the right thing entails a hefty bill on top.

Just don't report this kind of # I guess


But That's just it, ain't it?

HOW MUCH DO WE KEEP ON DISTORTING OURSELVES for these SCUM PARASITES???

More and more we like Contortionists have to Sacrifice, our selves and families so that these Elites can trample on us in their Luciferian playground...

ENOUGH.

They should take that 5,ooo bill and BURN IT,

PERIOD.

The time to say NO!

Is Long overdue...



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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They should have said it was Hoffa, the FBI would have been over there digging it up in an instant at the expense of the US government.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by ThreeBears

Originally posted by chronicTRE
Sometimes doing the right thing entails a hefty bill on top.

Just don't report this kind of # I guess


But That's just it, ain't it?

HOW MUCH DO WE KEEP ON DISTORTING OURSELVES for these SCUM PARASITES???

More and more we like Contortionists have to Sacrifice, our selves and families so that these Elites can trample on us in their Luciferian playground...

ENOUGH.

They should take that 5,ooo bill and BURN IT,

PERIOD.

The time to say NO!

Is Long overdue...
I know what I am doing about it. What are you doing about it?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by snowspirit
I read about something similar years ago.
A couple found a skeleton in their yard, and had to pay the expense for forensics and reburial.
It cost them thousands.

I knew then, that if I ever dig up a skelaton with a tractor or something, it's getting covered up quickly.
I'll say a few blessing type words, and a tree will get planted on them.....


This guy get it.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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My dad grew up in Point Edward where this took place and he always talked about digging up bones/ arrow heads and such was so common they just threw them away.

It sounds awful but that is what they did back in the 1930's it was a wild area and use to be a Carolina Forest stretching from the St Clair river right on through to Toronto.

Very good fishing as in just scoop and eat no problems for food back then.

We live about 2 kms from there and years ago we put a sand point in (well) and the first thing that the drill popped up was an arrow head.

If we ever happened to dig up any bones we would most assuredly have a banking/ thought session before deciding what to do.

Before you jump on me, my best life long friend is a Native born and raised right here.

I feel the Government should be responsible for the costs involved, after all they had no problem shipping every Native in Canada to a reserve.

In this area the result was "Dudley George Ipperwash" Google that and you will see how our Government deals with things they created in the first place.

A shame for the Natives and as usual a real piece of work by the Government.

S&F
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by snowspirit
I knew then, that if I ever dig up a skelaton with a tractor or something, it's getting covered up quickly.
I'll say a few blessing type words, and a tree will get planted on them.....
...and every time you hear about somebody who went missing years ago, you can wonder if it's them whose remains you hid.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...and every time you hear about somebody who went missing years ago, you can wonder if it's them whose remains you hid.


Wow, that is bold.

I wonder if you would report it if it mean't missing a mortgage payment or two...or 5.

Don't even attempt to lay guilt at the feet of Joe Public for this government FUBAR. If the government was even remotely concerned about finding missing persons, they would not only cover the costs of reporting/analysing, but also include a reward for doing the right thing.

As for me, it would be "back in the hole", followed by a lovely $5000 trip to relieve my poor conscience.
edit on 19-6-2013 by peck420 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
...and every time you hear about somebody who went missing years ago, you can wonder if it's them whose remains you hid.


Wow, that is bold.
No, it isn't. Why do you think they call the cops first? Why do you think they do a forensic analysis, file a case report and fill out transfer of evidence forms?

And if you have such a problem with this scenario, why not open a new window so that you can type up a letter of complaint about it to your MPP. Let me know how that turns out, willya?
edit on 19-6-2013 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because, eh?



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by snowspirit
I knew then, that if I ever dig up a skelaton with a tractor or something, it's getting covered up quickly.
I'll say a few blessing type words, and a tree will get planted on them.....
...and every time you hear about somebody who went missing years ago, you can wonder if it's them whose remains you hid.


Thankfully, I haven't dug up anything but animal bones.

The first thing I would do, is check to see what the provincial laws are, in case this is just in Ontario that the property owner gets the bill.

If I had $1000s to spare, or a good size savings account, it wouldn't be so bad. Or even room for another large monthly payment.
When you're one of the many Cdns living paycheque to paycheque with a mortgage, I'd rather not lose my home, and credit rating over an issue that should have other funding of some sort to pay for it. Maybe I'm being greedy here, by not being able to afford another bill?
The couple I read about years ago (also in Ontario) - their bill was much higher. That same bill in today's $$$ would be even more still.

Cdns pay high enough taxes, this type of situation is so rare that the homeowner shouldn't be on the hook for it. Who pays for it when it's not private property involved?


That's what makes a person think about not calling it in.
Good deeds often don't go unpunished....

Who knows, maybe guilt would get to me, and I'd re-find it when I knew I could afford the bill without losing the family home to pay the bill.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by snowspirit
Cdns pay high enough taxes, this type of situation is so rare that the homeowner shouldn't be on the hook for it. Who pays for it when it's not private property involved?
If it is a developer, then he pays. But it is not that rare for homeowners to find themselves in this situation.


That's what makes a person think about not calling it in.
Good deeds often don't go unpunished....
Which is precisely why the existing framework needs to be amended. I do believe that process has started...I'm certainly working on it.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 09:33 PM
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If they have to pay for the costs then they should sell it to offset their loss! ebay...

slightly petrified Canadian woman....



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 10:26 PM
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I live in a 100 year old home. Was digging under garage to install some pipe for a shower install. Found some bones. No one could identify so took to local universities anthropology dept and they lost them. Only took a few. The rest are still burried. I did not lay concrete in this area because I will want to revisit this again one day.

For all I know it could be an animal but none of my hunting friends could identify, and I was told they weren't from a dog by one guy. The only reason I haven't dug further, and have instead just left the option open via no concrete is because if it was human I would have to call the police and then deal with the guilt of disturbing a grave further. In the meanwhile its good to be reminded that task still awaits me (if ever I chose to pursue it).



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