Woman Denied US Citizenship Because of Atheism

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

New? It's not new at all. I've been told that, but for the 10 commandments plastered on all government buildings, we'd all be eating each others brain goo.

I have yet to rape or murder anyone. I don't steal, I try to avoid lying, I'm a helpful person and try to be kind to everyone around me. All of that time, not believing in a god, or gods as defined by any religion.

guess that's just a fluke.

Well, I guess it's "news to me" - I didn't pay much attention to what was said about atheists and their "lack of morals" until recently. It seems to me to be patently absurd.

I agree with you. Morality does NOT COME FROM RELIGION.

atheists need to man up- if you are atheist you are a physical literalist, smart animals basically- everything is just a coincidence, there was no design behind any of this.

As an atheist there is nothing of real significance to your actions, other than for social control and order


Be happy with that and stop pretending otherwise

I hate to sound contrary here because I don't agree with this either...but the title is misleading. She wasn't denied because she is an atheist. She was denied because she refused to take the oath. Conscientious objection to military service only works if based on religious belief. I don't agree with it because it seems to violate tye separation of church and state, but that's how it is. Ask Muhammad Ali.

In any event, maybe this case will serve a greater purpose. Conscientious objection should always be able to be used. By anyone. Regardless of creed. When a person joins the service they are also sworn to disobey any unlawful order. Last I checked, invasion was illegal. I don't agree with this crappy war machine either. And I am a vet.

Oops. Probably shouldn't have said that.
Don't worry NSA,, I promise I am not a terrorist, I'm a Patriot. Oops again. (quits while he is still unincarcerated)

reply to post by Serdgiam


It is true, atheism refers to nothing else other than non-belief. It is not a belief nor a moral guideline as to how one should behave. This does not mean that atheists do not have morals. A plethora of other doctrines, ideologies, laws, rules, rationality, logic and ethical standards inform an atheist's moral beliefs.

reply to post by Credenceskynyrd

atheists need to man up- if you are atheist you are a physical literalist, smart animals basically- everything is just a coincidence, there was no design behind any of this.

As an atheist there is nothing of real significance to your actions, other than for social control and order
Be happy with that and stop pretending otherwise

DID I SAY I WAS AN ATHEIST?

No, I did not!!!
And I am not a man. In fact, I blame MOST of the world's ills ON MEN. You don't see women -- with RARE exceptions -- calling for war in the streets - only in Government, Politics, and CHURCHES.

I am an agnostic. Woman. Mother. Daughter. Sister. Wife. Friend. Helper. Educator.
and PEACE-LOVING HIPPY.

Get it right.

The FACT IS THAT RELIGION DOES NOT CAUSE MORALITY. And people without RELIGION are JUST AS MORAL as anyone else. Regarding the non-religious and "atheists": there is nothing of real significance to their actions"??!!!

Shame on you. Based on that statement, I would wager that You wouldn't know morals if they came up and tried to shake your hand. What a shallow, superior, self-righteous attitude.
And you all wonder why people are leaving the churches in droves....:shk:

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

It is true, atheism refers to nothing else other than non-belief. It is not a belief nor a moral guideline as to how one should behave. This does not mean that atheists do not have morals. A plethora of other doctrines, ideologies, laws, rules, rationality, logic and ethical standards inform an atheist's moral beliefs.

See, this is the thing..

I hear the same words over and over again but actions seems to contradict it. I do not feel this is exclusive to atheism, but rather the human condition.

This article brings up an issue that is a problem. Bringing atheism into it discards all of us who may not claim that title, yet would be denied citizenship on the same grounds. Exclusion is the issue, regardless of grounds. I have given up the religious mess altogether, and yet, because I have no title.. it seems none would stand by my side in the same situation.

reply to post by wildtimes


Reer fft fft.

I don't see a reason to get so upset at that post. It is basically true.

I hate this whole "atheist church" type movement springing up everywhere. It is silly. Atheists should just stick to their beliefs and shut the hell up, honestly. The fighting doesn't do a lick of good.

In this case, if the woman had had any sense she woulda just lied and that would have been the end of it. Instead she decided to flaunt her ideals and it bit her in the ass.

reply to post by JayinAR

Well, if that member was calling me an "atheist", no, it basically ISN'T TRUE.

But, yeah. You're right. I'm JUST SO TIRED of being accused of being a demon, the downfall of mankind, a witch, a hater, and all that jazz. Atheists are NOT devoid of morals. That is my point.

Sorry. Was in a spitfire mood at the moment. My avatar subtitle isn't fiction!

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Reer fft fft.

I don't see a reason to get so upset at that post. It is basically true.

Really? Do tell. Why are the live of atheists meaningless?

I hate this whole "atheist church" type movement springing up everywhere. It is silly.

You hate it? So don't attend. Problem solved!

Atheists should just stick to their beliefs and shut the hell up, honestly.

Insert any other group in that sentence, and go out and shout it from the roof tops. See how many people agree with your sentiment.

The fighting doesn't do a lick of good.

In your insignificant opinion.

In this case, if the woman had had any sense she woulda just lied and that would have been the end of it. Instead she decided to flaunt her ideals and it bit her in the ass.

Ah! Spoken like a true patriot. Lying is always the best.

There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers. —Proverbs 6:16–19

reply to post by windword

Really? Do tell. Why are the live of atheists meaningless?

I hope he answers you, wind!!!
I really do!!

You go, girl.

reply to post by wildtimes

Morality does NOT COME FROM RELIGION

Indeed! In fact, very little good comes from religion. I'm always stunned by the display of the lack of faith that the ubber religious have in THEIR God. If they truly believe that their God is the creator of humanity, how could they think that he/it didn't leave his/its embedded signature on the human soul? They think a list of ambiguous and superficial rules defines their Gods wishes.

reply to post by windword


So are you saying you don't lie?
Everyone lies from time to time. It is part of the human condition. And I can't think of a better reason to ever lie than lying to the damn government.
If Jesus were alive today to see this monstrosity we call the US Government he would flip out.

Also, if my opinion is insignificant, why bother responding to it? Is it to be arguementive? To be self righteous?
I will go with the former considering the implication you are somehow above lying.
You'd be like the only person on Earth.

It isn't that an atheists life is meaningless. I read the post in question as an indictment on the atheistic world view. Meaning that without a creator, everything, not just life, has no purpose. No meaning.
I can agree with that. I don't understand why that is confusing anyone.

reply to post by JayinAR

If Jesus were alive today to see this monstrosity we call the US Government he would flip out.

Yes, he would.

Also, if my opinion is insignificant, why bother responding to it? Is it to be arguementive? To be self righteous?

If you think ATHEISTS' opinions and actions are insignificant, WHY?
Is it to be argumentative? Self-righteous?

reply to post by wildtimes


I don't think that way at all though. In fact, until a few years ago I considered myself an atheist. My argument is with the senseless arguing. There is no point. If atheism is defined as a lack of God belief, it makes no sense to go out looking to pick a fight. It happens all the time, from both sides, and it stinks.

An atheistic church? That is ridiculous on its face.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by windword

 

So are you saying you don't lie?

Everyone lies from time to time. It is part of the human condition. And I can't think of a better reason to ever lie than lying to the damn government.
If Jesus were alive today to see this monstrosity we call the US Government he would flip out.

He's not alive? News to me! And are you trying to tell me that Jesus didn't foresee American Society? Hmm. Not a very insightful God.

Also, if my opinion is insignificant, why bother responding to it? Is it to be arguementive? To be self righteous?
I will go with the former considering the implication you are somehow above lying.
You'd be like the only person on Earth.

I know it's hard for you to wrap your tiny little mind around, the fact that SOME people don't automatically resort to lying when given a tough question.

reply to post by JayinAR

I didn't mention an "atheist church."

My argument is with the senseless arguing. There is no point. If atheism is defined as a lack of God belief, it makes no sense to go out looking to pick a fight. It happens all the time, from both sides, and it stinks.

The reason to go out looking to POINT OUT FLAWS is that indoctrination into religion harms people's souls and minds. It makes them forget about today, here, now, and focus only on their own "salvation" with no regard for the multi-billions of people who are SUFFERING.

reply to post by windword


And not everyone believes Jesus was a deity.
See my point yet? We can quibble about this sorta ish all day.
Doesn't do a damn bit of good.
And personally I try to argue the points without the snide remarks and insults. You're doing Jesus proud by telling people whp view things differently they are insignificant and have "tiny little minds"

Tiny little minds indeed.

reply to post by wildtimes


I didn't say you said it. I was using it as an example of atheists acting in an inflammatory way. It happens all the time. They have no regard for how their actions are taken by others. Forming an atheistic church could easily be viewed as the height of blasphemy.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand.

You can get citizenship as a conscientious objector.

But, our secular government is stating you can only prove it through religious affiliation.

Our secular government is stating only god believers can be conscientious objectors.

But, a precedent has already been set that an atheist can be a conscientious objector.

A conscientious objector (CO) is an "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service"[1] on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, and/or religion.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by windword

 

And not everyone believes Jesus was a deity.
See my point yet? We can quibble about this sorta ish all day.
Doesn't do a damn bit of good.
And personally I try to argue the points without the snide remarks and insults. You're doing Jesus proud by telling people whp view things differently they are insignificant and have "tiny little minds"

Tiny little minds indeed.

Atheists should just stick to their beliefs and shut the hell up, honestly.

No, sorry, I don't see your point.