7 Dead, 30 Wounded in Weekend Violence

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This is what "gun control" gets you. Chicago has among the most restrictive gun ownership laws in the country, so according to liberal propaganda, it should be among the safest. Chicagoland shootings are consistently growing in number and severity.

Seven people were killed and at least 30 others were shot in violence that plagued Chicago over Father's Day weekend. Five of the fatalities and 11 other shootings occurred overnight Saturday leading into Father's Day, including the fatal shooting of a 16-year-old boy.

Chicago is basically a "gun free zone" which really means that it is a free fire zone where criminals can kill civilians any time with little fear of retribution. We need to go back to the second amendment and allow all citizens to carry when, where, and what they wish. Give citizens the freedom to defend themselves instead of turning them into helpless prey.

Here it is again in another gun free city:

Five people shot in the Bronx, Staten Island and Queens over 21-minute span

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Gun control does not make citizens safer. It makes you a more likely target. Criminals do not want to target armed people. That is why gun ranges have so few shootings.
Seriously though. Disarming yourself leaves you open to attack with no means of self defense. No thanks.

This is what "gun control" gets you

Gun control was overturned a few years ago there, so this has nothing to do with that.

This is what you get when you have overpopulation, poverty and a lot of minorities.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


In my opinion, Illinois is not even in the top ten states with the strictest gun control laws and I would argue that Chicago is an example of chaos stemming from socio-economic reasons.

Chicago has a history of attempts at reformation with regards to its disenfranchised and groups conducting illicit activities. In my opinion, it is these past failed attempts to address increasing crime rates and stagnation/degradation of communities that have perpetuated te city's current issues..


Guns are just a tool to create chaos, not necessarily the cause and to promote or object to further regulations with respect to this is irrevelant in my opinion, as crime would still continue.

Just curious if you have any stats on these type of actions in the last month. Or are we going to make this point based off of one weekend?

reply to post by CB328

Well, there is overturning the effective ban on guns? Then there is seeing a city or state actually respect that and follow it. Overturning Chicago's absurd laws in the McDonald Case didn't change much and they're almost proud of that fact. In fact, I'd say they are, actually.

Prose cutors, judges ignore federal ruling against state concealed carry ban

Even that 'conservative bastion', the New York Times....can't play much for saying otherwise in Chicago's case.

Strict Gun Laws in Chicago Can’t Stem Fatal Shots

So, indeed. Chicago does carry some of the most extreme laws in this nation on guns, gun stores, gun ranges and anything else remotely related to the public actually having a mean, nasty and dangerous gun. Does them a lot of good, huh?

@ Intrepid

I wish this could be called cherry picking headlines.... but Chicago is a war zone by stats as well as anectdotal experiences.

Chicago, the third-largest U.S. city, last year recorded a homicide rate more than three times New York City’s and double that of Los Angeles. It also had about 900 more non-fatal shootings than New York despite having a third as many residents. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is co-founder of Bloomberg LP, parent company of Bloomberg News.

In a nation beset by handgun deaths and injuries, Chicago is a big city that bleeds more than almost any other.

(Source: Chicago Shootings Cost $2.5 Billion As Murders Top New York’s)

Originally posted by CB328

This is what "gun control" gets you

Gun control was overturned a few years ago there, so this has nothing to do with that.

This is what you get when you have overpopulation, poverty and a lot of minorities.

Do you really believe that or are you just pushing your assigned talking points?

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Recent events On December 11, 2012, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, in the case of Moore v. Madigan, ruled that Illinois' concealed carry ban is unconstitutional, and gave the state 180 days to change its laws.[14][15] On January 8, 2013, the Illinois attorney general requested that the decision be reviewed by the full appeals court.[16] This request was rejected on February 22, 2013. The attorney general is considering whether or not to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.[17] On April 29, 2013, the attorney general asked the Supreme Court for an extension of the deadline for filing an appeal, from May 23 to June 24.[18] On May 3, 2013, the Supreme Court granted the extension.[19] On May 31, 2013, the state legislature passed a bill that would allow licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns. The governor has not said whether or not he will sign the legislation. If the act becomes law, the state police will grant concealed carry permits to qualified applicants age 21 or older who pass a 16-hour training course. However, any law enforcement agency could object to an individual being granted a permit "based upon a reasonable suspicion that the applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety". Objections would be considered by a Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board, which would decide whether or not the permit would be issued, based on "a preponderance of the evidence". Concealed carry would be prohibited in a number of locations, including CTA and Metra buses and trains, schools, government buildings, stadiums, casinos, parks, street festivals, and bars and restaurants that get more than half their revenue from the sale of alcohol. Permits would cost $150 for residents or $300 for non-residents, and would be valid for five years. Concealed carry permits issued by other states would not be recognized.[20][21] Also on May 31, 2013, the legislature passed a law, not yet signed by the governor, that would require lost or stolen guns to be reported to the police within 72 hours. The same law would require a dial-up check of the buyer's FOID card when a firearm is purchased in a private sale. The check is already required at gun shows or when a gun is sold by a licensed dealer.[20] On June 3, 2013, the attorney general requested the appeals court to grant a 30-day extension, from June 9 to July 9, for implementing a concealed carry law.[22] On June 4, the court granted the extension.[23]

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


In other words Chicago was a cesspool, is a cesspool, will always be a cesspool and the gun issue is irrelevant.

Originally posted by intrepid
Just curious if you have any stats on these type of actions in the last month. Or are we going to make this point based off of one weekend?

Well, let's see. Here is another weekend in chicagoland:

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Shootings in Chicago May 31- June 1, 2013 25-year-old man shot in Burnside At about 3:30 a.m., a 25-year-old man walked into Advocate Trinity Hospital on the South Side with a gunshot wound to his buttocks. Someone shot him in the 9200 block of South Blackstone Avenue in the Calumet Heights neighborhood 17-year-old boy, 25-year-old man shot in Lawndale Two people were shot walking home from a party in the Lawndale neighborhood about 2:55 a.m., Gaines said. A 17-year-old boy was shot in the foot and a 25-year-old man in the legs, and both were taken to Mount Sinai Hospital. 31 year old man shot in Austin A man, 31, was shot about 12:35 a.m. in the 5600 block of West Thomas Street in the South Austin neighborhood. He was taken to West Suburban Medical Center in Oak Park with a wound to his knee. 20-year-old man shot in Austin Someone shot a man in the arm on the West Side, near the intersection of Lemoyne Street and Lawler Avenue in the North Austin neighborhood. The 20-year-old was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital 20-year-old man was shot in Austin A a 20-year-old man was shot on the street in the 1400 block of West Lawler Avenue by a gunman who came up to him and fired multiple times with a 9-mm handgun. The only wound the man suffered was from a shot that went through his right elbow After he was shot, he fled the scene and was picked up about a block away in the 1500 block of Lawler before being transported to Mt. Sinai, where his condition had stabilized. The victim was not cooperative and that he was combative with both hospital personnel and police officers. 19 year old man shot in Gresham A man, 19, was shot about 6:30 p.m. in the 7800 block of South Marshfield Avenue in the Gresham neighborhood. He was dropped off at Little Company of Mary Hospital and transferred to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn 16-year-old boy shot in West Lawn A 16-year-old boy was shot about 4:30 p.m. in the 7200 block of South Central Park Avenue in the West Lawn neighborhood and walked into Holy Cross Hospital. He's in good condition

Here are some interesting stats for you:

NUMBER OF HOMICIDES IN CHICAGO IN 2011 441
NUMBER OF HOMICIDES IN CHICAGO IN 2012 535
NUMBER OF HOMICIDES IN CHICAGO AS OF June 10, 2013 164
NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOT IN CHICAGO IN 2011 2,217
NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOT IN CHICAGO AS IN 2012 2,670
NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOT IN CHICAGO AS OF May 15, 2013 666

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

In other words Chicago was a cesspool, is a cesspool, will always be a cesspool

True, and if I were to venture near said cesspool I would want a gun. Body armor too.

Originally posted by intrepidand the gun issue is irrelevant.

Not at all. If the citizens could open or concealed carry, there would be fewer shootings. Most criminals are cowards and do not prey upon those with the capacity to resist.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

In other words Chicago was a cesspool, is a cesspool, will always be a cesspool and the gun issue is irrelevant.

You do have a way with words. I suppose that isn't inaccurate to say about Chicago's status both in the past and present.

The gun issue would seem to be relevent though, when the numbers setting records and topping or far exceeding other comparable cities are shootings and not stabbings or throwing people onto train tracks or the like.

Ditto for saying it's either a mighty coincidence in theirs being among the most extreme laws in the land for legal and private gun ownership with all that crime. I've noted this before...but Missouri has absolutely no registration system to track private ownership or sales of firearms whatsoever. None. The feds require their sheet for the ATF to be happy and it ends there. Local county Sheriff tracking ended a long time ago. Kansas City and St Louis are also rough rough cities ...with St Louis being Murder Capital of the nation for one year, not that many years ago.

So how would one explain the difference? Guns flow easily and without much, if any regulation, beyond the 1 page of federal in my state ...and gun crime is a small fraction of Chicago.. Why, here in Missouri (and St Louis for comparison) you can toss a loaded handgun into your car without a permit at all, let alone any silly card giving you permission to own it in the first place. What will Chicago do?

If (1) the person's ID card has been revoked or is subject to revocation, (2) the card is expired and not eligible for renewal, or (3) the person does not possess a valid card and is not otherwise eligible, the penalty is a class 3 felony, punishable by two to five years imprisonment, a fine of up to $25,000, or both


430 Ill. Comp. Stat. 65/2, 65/14

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I submit the certain knowledge of the criminal element that a low % of residents have a firearm at all, let alone one outside their home is a direct cause and effect to at least some of the wildly uncontrolled street crime rates they suffer. Criminals who know each attack on a citizen may be where they die from return gunfire tend to have a long moment of pause in choosing how they go about being criminals, in my experience.

OK BUT are gun deaths down over the past 20 years? Btw, I already know this one.

I won't keep you in suspense:

1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 506

en.wikipedia.org...

I'd say a 35 to 45% drop is a win.

reply to post by CB328

overpopulation, poverty and a lot of minorities

And gangs. I grew up there and witnessed it. Majority of minority youths have to take a side or join a gang to survive the streets. Sad cycle.

Chicago was built by gangs and separatism based on race/nationality. Its built into the collective consciousness there

reply to post by intrepid

So gun deaths were the highest during the period of the nation wide assault weapons ban and since the expiration of the AWB, have gone down. Interesting.

reply to post by intrepid


Well, I really took some time to reply to this because what I found in the first quick look, came as such a surprise for what the statistics actually show on this, I had to spend some time to understand it a bit better.

This would be a fun thing to do a whole thread about for someone, in narrowing the numbers to useful tables that don't necessarily show everything, quite like these do. It makes it a bit of a challenge to see the important ones. It's really not quite what I expected in some ways while being everything I did in others.....

First, your 100% right about gun deaths progressively dropping and by firearm in particular, across the nation. The highs during the coc aine wars of the 1980s, when crime was nearly epidemic and nightmarish in some parts of the country, have been coming down steadily ever since. The thing is, I don't see how it has any correlation on that for gun laws. The only significant change in Federal Gun Law came in 1994 with the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban. There are things I haven't liked about the Brady Bill, but others are helpful, like the NICS system for an instant background over the phone. That took days by lack of options otherwise at one time.

Federal Gun Control History

The Assault Weapon Ban sunsetted and expired in Sept, 2004 ...while gun death rates slowed a decline slightly, but continued to drop. Economic issues and the nation being led by Little Abner for domestic policy sure didn't help either.

Outside that? This has all been state level and states vary wildly from Illinois requiring a State Issued Firearms card to legally own any firearm, anywhere in the state ....to states and many others like mine, who keep minimal records of who even has or changes ownership outside FFL, or no records at all. (Stores and legal Gun Show tables on FFL) So how does that work out? Well.. That was the surprise!

First, the rate of all crimes...guns or not, and across the board has been steadily declining between 1992 and 2011. I hadn't expected to see that.

The Crime Trends across the nation between Metro and Non-Metro didn't compare how I think either side of the gun debate would necessarily find useful to make points with, while also showing that overall drop in almost all categories. I'm still surprised by that alone.

The chart specific to national murder rates by state and weapon type are also downright mixed to anything I would have expected to see for states with very strict vs. very loose gun laws. It doesn't work against my point of no correlation, but supports it. I'd have first expected to see a definite difference in ratio between states on total vs. all firearms when it's that way in some but not in others. Laws don't seem to be a factor on that.

Finally, Robbery rates by state and weapon of choice hit the same odd way. Not higher in open gun states predictably more so than not. Nor are they lower/higher in highly restricted states in enough to say that's a pattern.

It doesn't begin to show for gun laws making things sigificantly worse until looking at the specific metro areas..and a few charts have it like this one. After all, local metro areas where state's haven't written in laws to prevent it, generally have stricter gun laws and to extremes at some times, than rural areas. (when the option to pass more exists..and doesn't in all states.)

Illinois is a cesspool from top to bottom..Gangs, gun violence, drugs, and third world living conditions. I live in the lower/bottom of the state and it is a constant state of meth madness. Some towns look like something off the Walking Dead. They look like war zones..third world countries. The southern most counties have BIG problems with meth and coc aine. There is major corruption even in small communities/farm communities..however, down here it is to each his own. The sheriffs sympathize with good and it is well known..that if you shoot..kill or no kill drag the body into the home and the sheriff will take care of the reports.

Right now we are having a big jump in robbery, assaults, and petty crime. I am surprised that things are starting to visually be worse than just a few years ago. An example, my parents live on 20 acres outside of town. Up into a few years ago the homes down their road were nice..decent homes with nice yards. Now several of the homes are abandon, up for sale, up for auction or look like they have been ransacked. One of the nicer ranch style homes have the windows busted and hanging off the hinges. The doors have been kicked in and are hanging sideways and there is garbage spilling out of the house, windows and doors into the yards. My parents think the owners moved out and now they are meth havens. Homes are constantly being broken into out there.

I know 'they' say the economy is getting better and things in general are improving..but honestly, they have gotten worse here. Before you only heard stories of how bad it was but now we have visual indicators that validate the fact the things are falling apart here.