A missing Piece of the puzzle... Chat room inspired

Sinter Klaas post

You can read this half way a list with topics about our origins. Just scroll down to the following title.

Sex with our evolutionary cousins? What's not to love?

I won't forget her is a link to the site. Darren Curnoe. Uversity of New South Wales


What this guy is telling us is that was even, more complex and unimaginable for us to have a clue.

Only when they identified the genome of the different humans, the unexpected happened.
There has only been found a finger from a human species that already traveled the globe. How unbelievable is that and there is still another species, but it's unidentified yet.

You know what I like best. This shows the way evolution actually works... We all figured that slowly and one species would change over time... bla bla
Somehow there were at least 3 different homo and a few that entered the scene a bit later on... And bam they all create hybrids and we can see ourselves now what has changed how and when.

Freaking awesome !

Well the subject came up during ATS live and continued after the show...

Ok the idea is Evolution..

Changes occur over time...
the issue is why do we not have any fossils of the intermediates..

The answer to this problem came to me for a business solution dealing with training issues

Intro

What is Homo Sapien Physically and how did he get to this present shape and leave no evidence?

1)Oposable thumbs
2)Upright walking
3)Teeth
4)skull size

Such and so forth

The answer is easy, very easy.. Growth and change


The idea was from why various training programs are failing in retail establishments..

Body
A) we have humans and athro what ever...

So how did we get from anthro to homo sapien...

Lets assume that no aliens were involved

1)Well lets say a small tribe had a mutation. and in a short time the mutation of the teeth became prominent

2)and in another upright walking

3)and in another oposable thumbs

4)and in another skull size


1 and 1 have child

2 and 2 have child

3 and 3 have child

4 and 4 have child

child one mates with child 2
child 3 mates with child 2

now do the hand shake walk math
one plus one
one plus two
one plus three
one plus four

two plus two
two plus three
two plus four

three plus three
three plus four

Four plus four

What makes this interesting?

You can use this model to introduce change quickly into an organism

On the evolutionary table, you change a whole species in under ten thousand years and you would have no skeletons of the links that certain persons would demand..

I know it works because it solved an issue in a business dynamic.. Why do we have bad employees?

A bad employees works on an infection vector yes.. But this is how the changes are introduced...

Applied Evolution interactions in groups

The long version is much more complicated but it does apply..



Conclusion-
Their are two sets of numbers for those who want to do the math..

each individual has a network of about Two fifty people according to wedding people per individual

Gladwell put out that some work has the number for efficient function of a group is at 150 per group.. anymore causes problem

with the lower number someone else can do the math for the formula.. but each facet as it grows and changes adds to the group... It allows for the introduction of changes in the gene sequence at a vast rate and leave little evidence...


My personal vision is one where some scattered group developed individual mutations and each one made different additions.. We will not find a missing link because there is not one. The group interbreed to the point where a new species emerged quickly...

So no missing link...


In review
main traits we have

broke down into gene expression

interaction of the gene expressions

high birth rate and early death rate equal rapid changes

no middle species

The business model is really simple

Run your training program and staffing along these lines

Different managers have different strengths
Move either the managers or the Assistants around constantly..

The employees will develop the strengths of those that travel
(and their bad traits)

Do it constantly and your organization will grow and succeed as long as the ones transmitting are competent

Like evolution the bad ones will weed themselves out

Change is easily introduced quickly and good traits can be maintained..

reply to post by ripcontrol

1)Well lets say a small tribe had a mutation. and in a short time the mutation of the teeth became prominent

2)and in another upright walking

3)and in another oposable thumbs

4)and in another skull size

Concurrently? You already stated the problem with that...

the issue is why do we not have any fossils of the intermediates..

If you would?

Again a thanks to Sinter Klaas for bringing it up..

It is really simple and I have been busy and not thinking about it..



Questions..

Please note the point is important

Size of the Group/ Groups

Determines interaction rates of genes expressed

which affects speed of change

reply to post by intrptr


changes occurred to quickly..

No missing link exist because the specimen would not have left behind evidence. The speed of the change would not have left large numbers of the middle species available.


Another interesting point

What introduced the changes...

Take teeth-
would result from what influences

It's simple, when you have a species that gets isolated and mutation will make a higher survival rate that will pass to the next generation, leaving the old part without the mutation to all die and seem flawed. Ater maybe a couple extra beneficial mutations you will be left with a changed species.

If that species will be reunited with their former group they left, they aren't changed that much to be weird if the just start to breed again. But this time ité interbreeding because by doing this they add their mutations to a species and will also cause the result of that only few with the new mix will survive an disaster cause it turned the whole place into the erea that people moved to.... So here you see 3 different end up as on, without leaving a trace of the older two and 1 new mix of genetic variety... that seems to suddenly appear.

The old genetic material is still there, but an addition would never been noticed. So it happens there miss a few steps in between.

I hope I got it explained right.

Nice thread !

reply to post by ripcontrol

changes occurred to quickly..

No missing link exist because the specimen would not have left behind evidence. The speed of the change would not have left large numbers of the middle species available.

Not even one? How long did it take to get to that point ? When you say changes occurred "too quickly" you sort of throw out mutations that have a "positive" effect. Many more are negative which would tend to degrade the progression. Only a few could be positive in any group. Especially small, close, "quick" groups.

So, no evidence of the changes really means there is no evidence to support the theory?

Originally posted by ripcontrol
reply to post by intrptr

 

changes occurred to quickly..

No missing link exist because the specimen would not have left behind evidence. The speed of the change would not have left large numbers of the middle species available.


Another interesting point

What introduced the changes...

Take teeth-
would result from what influences

Mutation and birth defects that can occur from close mating of relatives could also be the roulette wheel that pushes forward the effect.

More defects more random chance for the process to kick out a good mutation that increases survivability .

Originally posted by ripcontrol
the issue is why do we not have any fossils of the intermediates..

... and leave no evidence?

Lots of fossil evidence exists.
But if you want to dive further into specifics, be my guest.
Q. Which *specific* intermediate do you claim that there are no fossils for?

reply to post by intrptr


Well there is evidence... It can be read by decoding the genetic material. However the possibilities are endless. And the complexity beyond comprehension without a step by step study.

reply to post by intrptr


First I am glad to see ATS hasn't completely devolved to name calling and BS...

I am going to roll your question into one

but first...

Let me apologize to everyone... This thread got interrupted and I went ahead with the beta..
(Yes I was trying to ignore naked women biting me to type this dang thread.. It pisses me off for some reason they seem to always pick the damn time I am trying to read something or organize my thoughts...) This thread is truly great potential and thank yall for tolerating the bad spanglesh.. (I think I am going back to college to be a supervillian.. and for some uninterupted research time..)

now back to your regularly scheduled rare moment with a self centered man..

I want to thank for being a skeptic and at least asking questions.. ATS needs a your doing it right award... Your question have helped bring bring back the main picture and in brighter color...

Your wanting to know why no missing link from my statement..

Picture in your head the grouping of animals that we would have came from. Hold that image...

Now picture the most beautiful person you can think of nude. Hold that image as well.. (dont be a pervert... think divinci or voyager style.. )

Compare both images... Look at their teeth.. Look at their feet.. Look at the base of their skulls.. And dont forget their noses...

A lot of differences right.. good..

each of those differences is a gene expressed differently.. Now how do I get from tribe A to the homo's I have to put up with in traffic..



Lets start by looking at factors
Disease
Diet
Mating choices
Predators

Each of these will increase the spread of those traits that deal with them...

Now in the down and dirty version I posted first I went with the old math problem of a room full of people shaking hands.. Each person shakes someones hand one time.. How many hands get shook..

Now the funny part.. Homo sapiens are not by nature monogamous creatures.. So the math problem gets interesting because some people shake more then one hand.... and some dont shake at all...

Now to your question, the above input as front loaded data..

In this situation with clicks formed or several neighbors raping and pillaging other tribes... nearby.. (ethnic cleansing is an evolutionary tool used by a lot of animals.. watch some of the crap on the discovery channel) we have those traits transferring..

Now what makes this game interesting is that the environment encouraging these changes will hit all teams on the field...

Using the business model which I have personally seen in action...

The changes may have occurred very rapidly.. I see in my head a picture where the animal and test group start out with a large growth spurt due to a huge environmental explosion of resources... ( diet availability made the game changers..)

With a large output of population it allows for genetic spread to begin.. (keep in mine ma natures ole biddy nature.. you do not fit in you for any reason she will attempt to fire you.. Its is the reason behind bulling they are attempt to dominate and remove you from the herd)

These changes would occur very quickly with a quick growth.. (remember the nile and parts of africa have gone through various ecological changes.. This is where the morons running climate change have left out data you need for this picture.. the poles move and the present rate is at forty miles a year roughly..)

now with the environmental changes combining with population changes.. Also add in tool use (otters and chimps with a few others..) It leaves you with an argument similar to the UFO one.. Going by the the air traffic and road traffic standards how many aliens would have accidentally crash in our neighbor hood .. on this planet in a populated area... The math was not in any way in favor of it occurring.. Better odds for you to win powerball off of one ticket... So think what are the odds that one mid transformation species would have a bone set make it over ten thousand years...

Weather, predators, others using the bones, environments... now add in natural selection with the mid ones being absorbed into the tribe..

TBC----

reply to post by ripcontrol


Now our little homo is coming out... Its traits are leading to the Sapien model..

The evidence, would not be in a situation to survive..

We have glimpses and thoughts left as to why..

Some odd thoguhts..

You have all heard of fire and it being awesome.. Home many time in class did you hear of home....

Our other cousins... build nest to shelter from the environment... So nest building while important is not covered in most of the basics..

The question is never address in basic studies this simple question... Which bright ancestor built a structure in the middle of the open space.. it brings a lot of assumptions

Why is it important?

Well like all good police work... Where are the bodies...

So my good people who I have a few issues with .. The LEO's.. please chime in and give us some of your thoughts on this.. You would have more field experience then the so called experts on missing links...

Do you agree with my theory.. if so lets assume I am wrong.. Where would the bodies of the missing links be?

What should be interesting here is the addition of murder to the equation.. You see to remove the competition you cant just kill him or her.. other tribe members that support him or her would come for you.. However you might have to do it quietly..

So I might be wrong.. one of the apes you non red heads come from may have left a few bodies they had to hide.. And those genes would have been passed on..

The question for you is this

What condition first have to exist for the damn missing links bones to be there?

Then where..
Please cover in your homework
locations where these conditions would exist
tribal movements based on known routes

And most important of all
Why did sir francis drake engage in approved piracy for the crown and yet never was crowned king..

reply to post by ripcontrol


I like the way you bring the info you came up with. but I think it got a bit hard to follow.

Lets me try, please.

Say you have modern man. like exist for the last 3 million years looking like an African homo sapien.

But way before he bacame modern and was still only hominid they split and 2 other species emerge.

Whe modern man starts to show up in the world there are 5 species all together but those that split before the first modern African have already traveled the globe and are alle mixes of differnt species, as they are all neanderthal

All off the changes they caused from 5 distinct species and numerous variations The all end up as one human species that are alike.

But you still have the the modern looking African and then you have u and all our differences,

So 1 black human species ends op as the same human species with all our specific genes that evolved and are simply more around and that makes the human still look different.

We only have some bones of Neanderthal early human and a hobit. plus a finger and two teeth ?

How the hell did make is change that much without even making us genetically different. As close as we are to all others isn't normal in a single species.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


The question, if I may reform from what you have posted...


Are the genectic peoples studin us ours DNA able to isolate each individual trait based on micco con sumin..

It is best said who would they proceed to isolate each trait...

To much tribal politics interfer from morons...

The human DNA code is based on 46 genes
3 bill it think base pairs..
and the amount of base chemicals on them determines interaction and or expression
and then errors occur in transcription...

You have people when you try to have a discussion on what is life think your referring to abortion (yes da man does not forget slights from those with power)

Those in power of the tribe will interfere to suit their political needs...

My rant here is simple
Why is the sky blue? I prefer pink...

Actually the thought I had was simple...

The order of stacking and growth and change is mapable... the species would have had to have bio part a before b

this is where some of you up for Culling will interfer with stupidity..


However their is another thought here I will share with the select few of you bright enough to read my GREAT post..

In the formula of changing organisms ( not asms.. please keep you mind out of the gutter.. and that is a different class) a possibility emerged no one ones to mention.. Oddly enough it fits with part of the topic from ATS live (You didnt listen.. Go beat yourself with leaves then come back..)

The topic was more advanced civilizations before ours..

Will someone tell our dear lady and resident expert she was point blank Wrong..

I'll do better then provide proof.. I'll put money on it.. Well maybe gold due to the economy

Introduce new DNA to a tribal group..

The first organism with the trait would be the higher value content one..
then offspring would not carry the full trait-

It would be a little bit of time before those with the trait at the progenitors level would occur
(no you may not use alabama or arkansas as an example.. Shame on you.. Their first cousins..)

The same process would occur with organizations of human tribes.. The math is against you my dear lady...

The possibility of a genetic Forward pass exist...just like a genetic throwback does

So treating civilization same way..

By the same principals a more advanced civilizations may have existed and we are its descendants... Like gene spread... The organism died but the DNA of the Civilization was spread out..

Their are at least two libraries that have been destroyed...

Math points to you being completely wrong
and to possibility of some very interesting discoveries hidden in the Genome..

It also states that your governments will not be sharing so relax and enjoy your eighty or so fiftey years of life..

(psycho-hstorical trends indicate they have the information and are hiding it.. look into history and the destroy of the great library and the chinese one.. )

in conclusion..

I am insane but more importantly I am right..

This information when applied to real world gives us proof the process is true...

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

How the hell did make is change that much without even making us genetically different. As close as we are to all others isn't normal in a single species.

First sub species of a single line

Actually it kind is..

Color is merely a variation not a race.. I am not even sure the races as they are defined can account for a sub species..

Its like moths and predators.. The black ones prospered because the white one were culled

they still procreate and Black female moths have to explain white baby moths..



It points to a trait of exactly genetically where DNA requirement are for breeding..

So the answer is to your question
to the best of my ability

Ever species genetic code is like a building construction plan
some plans have base requirements
"Well bob we have to have x, y, and Z"

This may be a hidden genetic advantage is that our blueprints allow for the variations..

Some species do not....


The best example is the Cat I am descended form

The have a gene that allow mama kitty to get laid by multiple donors...
Now the gene that is of interest is the fact the donors each may get a chance to father offspring in the same litter..

In humans the same gene is off..
however like the female cats the homo female has the gene and the same attitude
Once in a while fraternal twins are fathered by different men... this gene sequence is on in the female..

So there are a lot of instances where this is occurring
Gayness
Seperate fathers in same birth set
ectra

While signifacant differences its allowed by the rules..

They used genetic markers to follow a single trade that is identified. with other markers from other specific genetic variety. Something like that.


You are telling some genomes missing cause the carrier got missing. As they can adopt adopt a child, passing a lot of genes wouldn't be all in.

Certain genetic material caused people get a lighter skin which will make it better for a life with less sun to have.
The other things I can't explain why, but that they are there is no secret. Try seeing 1 Chinese man in a crowd of 100 , They all look alike, if you aren't used to focus on more details.

I can't really say I understand the style you write in, is making me a bit doubtful to get it projected in the right way