It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Lies, Greed, and Fear: The origins of Christianity

page: 3
10
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 08:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ
 



I know how to love god because I know how to love myself. There is no separation between god and I. God is the only being that exists. We are each the entirety of that being.

Jesus would never make anyone keep promises, for he knew that any obligation is a restriction of freedom.


Did you come up with these ideas on your own or did you get them from the spirit world?


If I tell you I created them you'd accuse me of being associated with Satan. If I tell you I got them from the 'spirit world' you'd accuse me of being associated with Satan.




posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 08:53 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


That depends on how you created them.

What type of mysticism are you practicing?



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by HarryTZ
You're using the bible to try and prove the bible. See the problem?


I don't have to "prove the Bible." I'm using the Bible to pick apart your lies about the Bible. You make the Bible say things it doesn't say, and you make Jesus out to be someone He isn't. So of course I'm going to use the Bible, God's word is the mind and heart of Christ Himself.


Originally posted by HarryTZ
God and Jesus were one, just as is every other person, place, thing, and situation is one with God.

Ah. Pantheism. Gotta love that one. If God is everything and everybody, then God has no ontological status and therefore has no inherent worth. But God isn't pantheistic. He isn't everything and everybody. He is transcendent but not wholy other like the numinous in Rudolf Otto's philosophy. God is the creator of the heavens and the Earth, therefore has absolute ontological status.


Originally posted by HarryTZ
Again, quoting the bible to try and prove its validity. This is completely nonsensical, I hope you know.

Again, you speak Satanic lies and make the Bible say things that aren't there, and I'm putting a stop to that. Guess what? I'll continue to quote the Bible.



Originally posted by HarryTZ
See, all you have to defend your beliefs is a book written almost 2000 years ago that has been so messed up by so many people that it's just not even funny. And when someone sees something fishy about what the bible says, hey, not a problem, let's just blindly cite more verses hoping they eventually believe us.

That "book written almost 2000 years ago" has correctly stated every one of our existential situations. It judges you for every sin you commit, it correctly described the world the way it is and always has been, and has been the catalyst for more positive change in the world than anything else in history. That "book written almost 2000 years ago" survives today, even under two thousand years of close scrutiny. That "book written almost 2000 years ago" has been the driving force of a religion that went from a tiny group of people persecuted by literally everybody else around them, to being the largest religion in the world. So I'd be careful about saying it's been "messed up", because it's a billion times greater than any of the New Age nonsense you're preaching.


Originally posted by HarryTZ
If you would rather trust your entire existence to a physical book instead of your own pure consciousness, that is not my decision.

Also, it's a bit ironic that you are referring to my standpoint as 'New Age', considering that its teachings and wisdom stretch back farther than any other religion on this planet.

I do trust my entire existence to a physical book, because it's not the physical book that matters: It's the spirit that moves through it. That book is the vehicle that contains the immutable, immovable, unchangeable, glorious and beautiful Word of God that is sweeter than honey and more precious than all the silver and gold in the world. You should try reading it one time, I pray that your heart and mind will be opened to the truths and that the Spirit of God moves through you.

You're right. The "new" in New Age isn't really indicative of what it is. The teachings you speak of are just mutations of ancient pagan mystery religions. Mutations that just morph and change around like a chameleon for whatever time and place that need be. Satan is very good at that, because Satan is cut off from the creativity and artistry of God. Satan can't make anything new, he just switches aspects around to make it seem new.


Originally posted by HarryTZ
This is true. But if Jesus was the person that I, and many thousands of other people, think that he was, then our view makes a bit more sense.

Unfortunately, what you and the "many thousands of other people" think He was has absolutely no basis in reality. You don't base any of your conclusion on anything other than vain imaginings. And you wonder why I quote the Bible so often? Because God isn't subject to my imagination, and neither is He subject to yours.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:08 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 



I am in touch with myself. I don't see what some made up entity or entities has to do with it.


Well, believe it or not, a lot of people who are actually in touch with these entities (that you claim are made up), are saying a lot of the same things you are and I was wondering how hard core into mysticism you really were.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by HarryTZ
If that was true there wouldn't be any Roman Catholics left, now would there. Don't you see what you're doing? You're bashing other religions, all the while thinking that yours is THE religion. I am telling you to transcend all religion and free yourself from the irrational dogma that has probably been forced into your brain since you were just an infant.


No. There are still Roman Catholics left because the Vatican has had plenty of time to learn how to deceive people and speak to their selfishness and pride.

Bashing other religions? Bashing other FALSE religions. Christ didn't come in the form of some multiarmed ashura, or a desert prophet who built an army and killed tens of thousands of unbelievers, or preach that you are redeemed through Christ by praying to His human mother or doing good works until you somehow obtain impossible spiritual perfect. Christ came with one teaching: Believe, and you will be saved.

Irrational dogma? No. It's perfectly rational, unless you start interjecting random nonsense into it like you've been doing. Forced into my brain since I was an infant? I was a stone cold atheist for most of my life, and then a Buddhist for two years. All it took was one moment of natural revelation to bring me to my knees in tears begging God for forgiveness.

I hope the same thing happens to you, because I'll tell you right now, the entire Bible and the entire life and being of Christ will be completely irrational to you until every fiber of your being in inundated with the Spirit.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God


So I somehow sinned before my birth, before there was anyone or anything to even sin against? How does that even work? And don't you quote the bible on me. I want your input.



We don't have a choice in the matter. We don't have a choice on being saved either. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. There is no autonomy, there is no free will. You're a slave to something, and it's either going to be Satan or Christ.


Didn't god give us free will? You can't pick and choose which parts of the bible you like and which parts don't suite your fancy. Practice all of it or you're not a christian, at least in my eye.

I do agree that we are slaves, however. But we are not slaves of Christ or Satan. We are slaves to our ego. The ego is that which believes and tells you that you're separate. In truth, there really is no free will. Your will either comes from your unconscious ego, or, once the ego is transcended and all boundaries have been lifted, the will comes from the compassionate nature of existence itself. This is the will that Buddha, Jesus, Moses, Krishna, Babaji, Sai Baba, Osho, and every other ascended master acted by.



What you're "teaching" is of a cultish nature. What is a cult in Christian terms? It is any teaching that claims to be rooted in "classical Christianity" but adds or takes away anything from God's inspired word. That's what you're doing, therefore, you belong to a cult, even if it's just you in your lonesome sitting there taking lines from Satan himself.


No. I do not subscribe to any beliefs or religions. I see Jesus as an ascended master spreading the message of existence.



Good luck being enlightened without Christ. You'll have an easier time biting your own teeth.


Nobody who thinks they need some entity or person outside themselves will become enlightened. Notice how there are no Masters who subscribe to a religion. They have transcended it completely.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


That depends on how you created them.

What type of mysticism are you practicing?



Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually centers on practices intended to nurture those experiences.

-Wikipedia



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:14 PM
link   
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
 



I don't have to "prove the Bible." I'm using the Bible to pick apart your lies about the Bible. You make the Bible say things it doesn't say, and you make Jesus out to be someone He isn't. So of course I'm going to use the Bible, God's word is the mind and heart of Christ Himself.


Yeah, what's with everyone who doesn't study the Bible who want to continue to put words in Jesus' mouth?

I'd really like to know why Jesus' name gets brought up at all in any of this, just for that reason.

This sounds more like some kind of Buddhism to me. If Buddhists want to use Jesus as an example of how to live, so be it, but I have a huge problem with them trying to put words in Jesus' mouth.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:16 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


I know the definition of mysticism. But what are YOU PRACTICING? Meditation? Prayer? Magic? Divinity?



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
I hope the same thing happens to you, because I'll tell you right now, the entire Bible and the entire life and being of Christ will be completely irrational to you until every fiber of your being in inundated with the Spirit.


I am too far down the path for that to happen. And I am infinitely thankful.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by HarryTZ
So I somehow sinned before my birth, before there was anyone or anything to even sin against? How does that even work? And don't you quote the bible on me. I want your input.

You were born by the will of God. You live by the will of God. Every second of every day has been predestined by God. So yes, you were sinful before you were born, because God knew all of us completely and fully before even the foundations of the universe were spoken into existence. (Jeremiah 1:5)

You want my input without the Bible? No thanks. My heart and mind are prone to evil. God's Word is my bread of life and the lantern on my walk.


Originally posted by HarryTZ
Didn't god give us free will? You can't pick and choose which parts of the bible you like and which parts don't suite your fancy. Practice all of it or you're not a christian, at least in my eye.

I do agree that we are slaves, however. But we are not slaves of Christ or Satan. We are slaves to our ego. The ego is that which believes and tells you that you're separate. In truth, there really is no free will. Your will either comes from your unconscious ego, or, once the ego is transcended and all boundaries have been lifted, the will comes from the compassionate nature of existence itself. This is the will that Buddha, Jesus, Moses, Krishna, Babaji, Sai Baba, Osho, and every other ascended master acted by.

No. God didn't give us free will. Nobody said God gave you free will. The Bible teaches us clearly and honestly that autonomy is just an illusion. Any references to "choosing" or "doing" I make is under this concept of illusory free will. Any choice or action you make is by the Will of God. So no, I'm not "picking and choosing" things.

You wouldn't happen to be a Ba'hai, would you? Because I keep hearing you talking about things that I've heard before. Jesus and Moses didn't teach those things. The Buddha didn't even teach "transcendence over the ego", the Gautama Buddha taught that the ego is an illusion.

I'm starting to think you're mistaken about a lot of things.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:20 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


Nobody is ever too far down the path (unless they're swimming in the lake of fire). You've still got time.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


I know the definition of mysticism. But what are YOU PRACTICING? Meditation? Prayer? Magic? Divinity?


I try to live in meditation. I allow my consciousness to witness events without identifying myself with them. Meditation is not a process. It is a quality. A clear-minded, opinionless state of mind. It is the natural state. Prayer is just an intense meditation. It is devotion. Magic... I really don't see how magic is relevant. Divinity? All is Divinity itself.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


Nobody is ever too far down the path (unless they're swimming in the lake of fire). You've still got time.


I refuse to live based on another man's life. I am completely independent. I try to live as if I am the first being on the planet. Enlightenment cannot be reached dependent on something external. It is an internal process, completely alone. I am truly sorry that your life took a turn for the worst, but you do not need a god to solve your issues.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:31 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


What exactly do you mean?

Why do I feel the word "nothingness" coming on?



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:40 PM
link   
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


ROFL
you've touched a nerve
Notice how the "holy" ones simply refuse to post on topic and won't address the subject of the OP:

namely the pathological xtian tendency to project "evil", especially their own on others and on the universe itself.
it's never a xtian, just the devil, or his little helpers [of which you are being set up to be outed as one, what with the INQUISITION regarding your beliefs ]

when a muslim does something bad it's all Islam's fault
but of course different standards apply to "god's ARMY"

fortunately, despite all the lies and evasions, jesus left us a pearl of wisdom and guidance





"BY THEIR FRUITS [ACTIONS] YOU SHALL KNOW THEM"

for the most part, historically, christianity is nought but a a blood drenched banner raised up to the concept of DOMINATION
ever seen that cross surmounted ball baby jesus is holding?

it's the inverted astrological symbol of Venus, also known as the [pre-xtian] astrological symbol Mars [father of Fear and Terror] also known to mystic's and esoterics as the symbol of DOMINION.

of course, you'd need to study "the deville's bookes" as they refer to any information they didn't burn that reveals the terrorist origins of the particular sect [read degeneration of the original revelation ], that came to dominance , to know that.

basically it's the most extreme form of "Sanity" ever produced humans it's psychopathology, and how the teachings of a young radical [in the properly positive meaning of the word] jewish rabbi became a tool of kontrol serving the agenda of the children of Aryas [father of the aryans, not Arius the "heretic ] is WAY BEYOND the scope of the OP

that said, true followers of Jesus, like Francis of Assisi, are simply too busy doing the Imitatio Dei, to be meddling in others lives.

S&F
edit on 15-6-2013 by TheMagus because: added edit & comment



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
You were born by the will of God. You live by the will of God. Every second of every day has been predestined by God. So yes, you were sinful before you were born, because God knew all of us completely and fully before even the foundations of the universe were spoken into existence. (Jeremiah 1:5)


This logic is so far beyond nonsensical that it's laughable. You're saying that god already determined every action that I am going to perform, yet I'll be damned if I don't do something else. That I deserve punishment for doing that which god predestined me to do, with no hope for 'redemtion'. And you took this over atheism and Buddhism? Open your eyes brother.



No. God didn't give us free will. Nobody said God gave you free will. The Bible teaches us clearly and honestly that autonomy is just an illusion. Any references to "choosing" or "doing" I make is under this concept of illusory free will. Any choice or action you make is by the Will of God. So no, I'm not "picking and choosing" things.


Why do you believe that? Because the bible says so. Why do you believe the bible? Because it was written by god! How do you know it was written by god? Because the bible says so!


You wouldn't happen to be a Ba'hai, would you? Because I keep hearing you talking about things that I've heard before. Jesus and Moses didn't teach those things. The Buddha didn't even teach "transcendence over the ego", the Gautama Buddha taught that the ego is an illusion.

I'm starting to think you're mistaken about a lot of things.


I do not have a religious belief. The Buddhist lifestyle, however, more closely describes mine than any other system of beliefs.

Yes, the Buddha taught that the ego was illusory. He also taught the the physical world was, as well. You can call seeing this illusion for what it is, anything you like. I like the way transcend sounds.
edit on 15-6-2013 by HarryTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ
 


What exactly do you mean?

Why do I feel the word "nothingness" coming on?


Ah. So you know a bit more about mystical philosophy than I would have guessed.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:52 PM
link   
You guys should head over to the Philosophy and Metaphysics forum and look at some of my topics.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheMagus
Notice how the "holy" ones simply refuse to post on topic and won't address the subject of the OP:

Nobody is claiming to be holy. If I had to put myself on a spectrum between Hitler and Jesus, I'd be right next to Hitler. (Romans 3:23)


Originally posted by TheMagus
namely the pathological xtian tendency to project "evil", especially their own on others and on the universe itself.

Yes. Because humans aren't inherently evil or anything like that.

No, humans are evil. We're all wicked, sinful, and depraved, and it really doesn't matter how hard you plug your ears up with your fingers, close your eyes, and go "la la la la la la la", there is objective evil in the world and it's apparent in the entire history of humanity. Human history is just one giant example of the evil nature of humanity.


Originally posted by TheMagus
it's never a xtian, just the devil, or his little helpers [of which you are being set up to be outed as one, what with the INQUISITION regarding your beliefs ]

You seem to refuse to see where I'm coming from as a believer. I'm nowhere near perfect. I'm most likely even more flawed than anybody who has posted here on this thread. But you know what the difference is? I am fortitude by Christ who dwells within me and regenerates my entire being so that I absolutely CANNOT do evil acts even if I wanted to. If I did do evil acts, I wasn't really saved.

My position is simple: You and I aren't any different. We're both fallen creatures prone to doing sinful things. But my life is a testimony that by the grace of God I am made whole and have no need for selfish, worldly desires and material possessions.

And because I am fortified by Christ, I have the duty as a Christian to give a reason for the hope that is within me (1 Peter 3:15) and implore others to seek our Christ, because if there's anybody here who knows that you can't save yourself, it's me.


Originally posted by TheMagus
for the most part, historically, christianity is nought but a a blood drenched banner raised up to the concept of DOMINATION

Yes. By who? Fallen men who do depraved things. What do you expect? Human beings will do what human beings do. But don't start placing the burden of that responsibility on Christ.

But that's not what it's about, is it? Unbelievers will always do that: Play the "Christianity has murdered people" card even though they know that's a blatant lie. True Christianity has never persecuted, imprisoned, or murdered anybody period, because NOTHING in the Bible advocates that. But you know that. You just have a limited hand to play, so you keep doing back to things like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials because you think it fits your agenda when attacking the truth claims of Christianity.


Originally posted by TheMagus
that said, true followers of Jesus, like Francis of Assisi, are simply too busy doing the Imitatio Dei, to be meddling in others lives.

Nobody here is meddling in anybody's life. The OP posted a multitude of clear and blatant lies about Jesus and the Bible, and I am called to defend them. Do they need defended? No. But as John Calvin put it, we must give a response (apologia) to "stop the mouths of the obstreperous."



new topics

top topics



 
10
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join