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I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

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posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam
 

You mean an educated guess? You have reason to believe that your hypothesis is a logical pursuit.


"Reason" is based on the containing system, meaning mankinds current knowledge base, and personal experience. If reason becomes involved, then science becomes stagnant. When we make new discoveries, we have faith that what we are seeing is how we are seeing it. We have a belief that is not based on proof, and it doesnt matter how that belief is derived. To confirm this with proof, we do experiments to confirm it with objective logic (math, etc).

The interesting part is those who are religious do not tend to confirm anything with objective logic but solely reside in subjective faith. Those who subscribe to "scientism" that do not objectively confirm their reason through active experimentation, math review, etc do not confirm anything with objective logic either. The belief/conclusion solely resides in subjective reason.

Faith is not an antonym to reason, they are both subjective psychological processes that are only confirmed objectively through personal experimentation, math, pattern recognition. You can use either one and be just as "wrong" about things. Most people do not follow through with the actual science part themselves, regardless of if they subscribe to semantics like reason and faith, science and religion, etc. If they are not actively pursued for ourselves, then we also have faith there that the proof that is provided to us would be the same as if we were to explore it ourselves.


Unless their reason is self-evident. Which is why it's called reason and not faith. A reason that requires faith is not reason. A reason is a process. It's cause and effect.


Reason is a subjective psychological process the same as faith is (which means they are both processes). Both also operate on subjective views of cause and effect. If we dont do the science for ourselves, then all we are doing is confirming bias.


Are you trying to undermine the role of scientific investigation and subsequent technology and intellectual development in comparison to the paltry show tricks that faith has to offer? There's levitating someone using wires or some crap and making the audience feel really awesome about having witnessed it, and then there's treating a cancer patient so they can live to watch their grand daughter get married.


You have completely missed my point...


There's mystery, and then there's answers.


What need is there for a concept like "answers" if there wasnt a mystery in the first place?




posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



You have completely missed my point...


Not for lack of trying. Maybe you should keep it simple. Like, one or two sentences. A basic theme, if you would. A summary. We can work from there.
edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Not for lack of trying. Maybe you should keep it simple. Like, one or two sentences. A basic theme, if you would. A summary. We can work from there.



Reason is a subjective psychological process the same as faith is (which means they are both processes). Both also operate on subjective views of cause and effect. If we dont do the science for ourselves, then all we are doing is confirming bias.


"Do the science for ourselves" means actual personal exploration of the topic at hand through experiments and actual first-hand objective proof. Most see no need to do so in either subjective psychology, and in many cases, that personal search is actively discouraged through various means.
edit on 7-7-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


So you're saying that reason is no better than faith? I guess I'm unsure as to what specifically you're trying to prove.
edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


So you're saying that reason is no better than faith?


Not even remotely. I am not suggesting a "good/bad" dichotomy with them at all.

I am saying they are both subjective, and that without personal exploration based in objectivity (one method is the scientific method), it is essentially second-hand bias confirmation.

I find that most people use both, including myself. At the very least, it has never been shown to me that they are actually mutually exclusive objectively.
edit on 7-7-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by colbe
 



Scary, atheists ignore other atheists...

"America's ... resistance is three fold: its patriotism, morality and spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." Stalin

Thanks whoever has the wonderful blog, Apocalypse Paradigm.


Quoting atheists now? Should I post the numerous quotes in which Hitler attributed his diabolical plan to that of "God"? Should I show you all the ways he claimed to be honoring the Christian paradigm with his actions? A little Google search will tell you that.

And then you say: "He was not a true Christian!" or maybe "He was only one Christian! He didn't understand Christianity!"

Just so. Stalin was one atheist. What he chose to do with his disbelief is on his head, not the conglomerates of atheism.


edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs. Don't you want to go to Heaven? People who reject God are headed the other way UNLESS they repent before they die? Will they at the last moment? Pray for conversions.

I love sharing a scientist's comment on God. Listen to the first couple of minutes here of a yes, Ted Turner's TED TALKS - Conception to Birth. God is so amazing~!

+ + +


www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by colbe
 



Scary, atheists ignore other atheists...

"America's ... resistance is three fold: its patriotism, morality and spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." Stalin

Thanks whoever has the wonderful blog, Apocalypse Paradigm.


Quoting atheists now? Should I post the numerous quotes in which Hitler attributed his diabolical plan to that of "God"? Should I show you all the ways he claimed to be honoring the Christian paradigm with his actions? A little Google search will tell you that.

And then you say: "He was not a true Christian!" or maybe "He was only one Christian! He didn't understand Christianity!"

Just so. Stalin was one atheist. What he chose to do with his disbelief is on his head, not the conglomerates of atheism.


edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs. Don't you want to go to Heaven? People who reject God are headed the other way UNLESS they repent before they die? Will they at the last moment? Pray for conversions.

I love sharing a scientist's comment on God. Listen to the first couple of minutes here of a yes, Ted Turner's TED TALKS - Conception to Birth. God is so amazing~!

+ + +


www.youtube.com...


I played this Youtube again, love Alexander's words, take the time, watch and listen from the start to about 1:30.


Thanks,

colbe



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs.


I am not dead. I am not lonely. I am free to be whatever the hell I choose to be. I am free to craft my own happiness from the ores of trial and error. I am liberated from the confines of a deity-centric dichotomy. I have no master. I serve no one. I exist for the happiness of no one, nor do they for mine. Just as with every sentient creature on this planet, I exist for whatever I choose. My only limit is what I allow myself to imagine.

And, quite frankly, imagining a deity seems a particular waste of time that would be better served imagining what I could do or be for myself and those around me.



edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by colbe
Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs.


Hitler is an example of the fruit of Christianity. People, run from Christianity's lonely, dead beliefs.

See how the fallacy of hasty generalization doesn't work? Try again.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



I am saying they are both subjective, and that without personal exploration based in objectivity (one method is the scientific method), it is essentially second-hand bias confirmation.


Precisely. Which is rather conspicuously absent in certain religious materials.

Fun fact: did you know that Christianity was made the official religion of Rome after Constantine and his ragtag group of warriors saw a cross-shaped UFO? They inscribed the cross on their armor and were subsequently victorious despite poor odds. Technology assisting the rise of religion!

Anywho, if you want to call the universe a god, that's on you. But I think the term "god" is a pretty vague label. It implies consciousness and personification. Is the universe a conscious entity? Does it have feelings? Does it think? And even if it does, why would it care about a single grain of sand on a beach the size of Texas?



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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The Irony and the Ecstasy:


The "Problem of Reality" in Philip K. Dick's 1978 speech How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later

Moved to Here.


edit on 7-7-2013 by pthena because: To much work put into it to get buried in such a long thread



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Precisely. Which is rather conspicuously absent in certain religious materials.


Do you actively practice math and science yourself, or do you get your findings from others?


Anywho, if you want to call the universe a god, that's on you. But I think the term "god" is a pretty vague label. It implies consciousness and personification. Is the universe a conscious entity?


We have already been over this.
I am using the term in a very specific reference here though, (the Universe) but it may not be an application you like. Essentially, in my belief system, there are synonomous due to both "god" and "universe" being exactly the same data set. Remember, I do not ascribe the same importance to words as you do, they are just cultural references of the same data set. The word doesnt matter.


Does it have feelings?


Do feelings exist? On what applicable scale do you determine what is doing the feeling and what isnt?


Does it think?


Do you think? And what scale do you think is most relevant for determining what is thinking and what is not?


And even if it does, why would it care about a single grain of sand on a beach the size of Texas?


I think the more pertinent question would be; "could it care about a single grain of sand on a beach the size of Texas? The "why" tends to be relegated to philosophy and bias.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by colbe
Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs.

Hitler is an example of the fruit of Christianity. People, run from Christianity's lonely, dead beliefs.

See how the fallacy of hasty generalization doesn't work? Try again.


I don't see the humor of your changing my words.

Ah and you failed to speak of who I posted about, Stalin. Did you forget? Naah, sell Stalin. You can't.

There are other atheist leaders, the world is aware of the history of their effect on humanity. This is the fruit of atheism.

The underlined, correction, obvious, Hitler did NOT live a Christian life.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



The underlined, correction, obvious, Hitler did NOT live a Christian life.


Oh, I do hope someone picks up that phone...

...because I friggin' called it!


And then you say: "He was not a true Christian!" or maybe "He was only one Christian! He didn't understand Christianity!"

Just so. Stalin was one atheist. What he chose to do with his disbelief is on his head, not the conglomerates of atheism.


Hitler chose to follow in the example of the god he admired. He attempted to commit genocide, just like "God" did before him.


Ah and you failed to speak of who I posted about, Stalin. Did you forget? Naah, sell Stalin. You can't.


Come up with some better examples. You're embarrassing yourself. You couldn't defend Hitler's actions, and you can't even defend your own case without using someone else's words. All you do is copy and paste, copy and paste. Let's get an original argument from you. Come on, I wanna see this.
edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by colbe
 



Stalin is example of the fruit of atheism. People, run from atheist's lonely, dead, beliefs.


I am not dead. I am not lonely. I am free to be whatever the hell I choose to be. I am free to craft my own happiness from the ores of trial and error. I am liberated from the confines of a deity-centric dichotomy. I have no master. I serve no one. I exist for the happiness of no one, nor do they for mine. Just as with every sentient creature on this planet, I exist for whatever I choose. My only limit is what I allow myself to imagine.

And, quite frankly, imagining a deity seems a particular waste of time that would be better served imagining what I could do or be for myself and those around me.



edit on 7-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



You sound like Satan but he was much smarter than you. Angels are smarter than humanity, why the are more humble than we are. The evil one, he is the exception and the angels he took with him to Hell.

Notice above all the "I am, I choose"...I, I, I. Satan's famous words: "I will not serve."

You can change AI, repent, turn to God. Pray, speak to God from your heart before you fall to sleep tonight.

Did I miss it, I asked, you never shared why your bitterness against Catholicism, the faith? Were you baptized Roman Catholic and this a rebellion against your dear parents? If they hurt you, forgive them.

I am serious, who can figure atheists?



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by colbe


Angels are smarter than humanity, why the are more humble than we are. The evil one, he is the exception and the angels he took with him to Hell.

"angel" just means messenger.

If someone sent a message by pigeon,
which one is smarter than humanity,
the pigeon who delivers the message
or the man who wrote the message?

The Angel of Destruction who David sacrificed to at the threshing floor didn't seem to be a very humble character. Was he Satan, or was he sent by Satan after Satan tempted David? Wait, or was that YHWH? It sort of depends on whether you look at Kings or Chronicles.
edit on 7-7-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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I have visited AnthonyCooper, and his state is rather belligerent and perpetually under the influence at this point. He swears to have reverted utterly. It seems the foundation of this thread has fallen out, but if anyone has more to add, by all means, carry on. Thank you for your contributions, all of you.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

You're welcome.

The thread helped me.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 





Notice above all the "I am, I choose"...I, I, I. Satan's famous words: "I will not serve."


What is the point of having a free will If it must always be spent catering to the self serving mentalities Of those who seek only to use me?




Did I miss it, I asked, you never shared why your bitterness against Catholicism, the faith? Were you baptized Roman Catholic and this a rebellion against your dear parents? If they hurt you, forgive them.

I am serious, who can figure atheists?


I have already told you the answer is No. I've answered your question at least 5 times already. Instead of asking more questions how about you go back and reread everything I have posted.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by colbe
 





Notice above all the "I am, I choose"...I, I, I. Satan's famous words: "I will not serve."


What is the point of having a free will If it must always be spent catering to the self serving mentalities Of those who seek only to use me?




Did I miss it, I asked, you never shared why your bitterness against Catholicism, the faith? Were you baptized Roman Catholic and this a rebellion against your dear parents? If they hurt you, forgive them.

I am serious, who can figure atheists?

I have already told you the answer is No. I've answered your question at least 5 times already. Instead of asking more questions how about you go back and reread everything I have posted.


You are correct about one thing, human respect is worthless. People are fickle but not everyone is out to use
you AfterInfinity. And God is never a "user." He is the most loving refuge when people hurt you.

Your replies contain hardly ever used words in real life. I'll admit, I skip over those kind of comments.

A "no", I must of missed it. Share a little more than one word, were you raised Protestant? Aren't your parents heartbroken with your atheism? Maybe they're atheists. How about your siblings?

Atheists have to be in constant state of anxiety.



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