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I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

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posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 





As an atheist, you can't, legitimately, refer to God as a basis for any of your beliefs, or thoughts. Therefore, I will remove all of your references to God:


I suppose that means you can't talk about any books or movie's then. If they are inventions of the mind, and purely fictional, then you can't refer to any of them, correct? I mean, you don't believe they are real, so you can't talk or think about them even though they do exist as an idea...right?

I don't agree with that. I'm going to discuss whatever I feel like discussing, short of breaking T&C's.
edit on 24-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


You dare to speak for me, tell me what my point was in posting this thread when you weren't even there in my mind when I posted it, and then instruct me not to speak for others?

I haven't spoken for anybody. I HAVE ONLY expressed MY THOUGHTS regarding YOUR WORDS.


Your above message seems very very self contradictory.

Well... I reckon that's a "mute point", at this time. Oh, well...

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by logical7


being grounded in the obvious does make living easy in some way but it also raises some BIG questions that demand answers, "why we have a sense of justice in an obvious unjust world?" "why empathy when/if it does not matter in the end?" etc

The only easy thing about it is not having to second guess every move you make as to which god may get offended by your behavior.

If my children needed protein to maintain health and I was reduced to going to a food bank, and all they had was pork chops, I would not have to weigh the option of feeding my children or keeping within a "god given" dietary code.

But it does matter in the end. My children/grandchildren will most likely still live in this World when I'm dead. Even if I didn't have children, other people I see or have never met will still be living in this World.

I know what I'm talking about, because I've seen many people die (as if a whole universe from their point of view winked out of existence). I used to get very upset when, after cleaning the body and helping zip it into a body bag, I would look around and see that nobody else had even noticed the disappearance of a universe. Life just went on.

While we live is the time to do good. And even if a whole universe goes with me, the other universes will continue on without me. Isn't that the essence of empathy? I think it is.

I've got this book by Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great. chapter 13, Does religion make people behave? is pretty good. After describing the Civil Rights movement in the U.S. (which I remember) he makes a very compelling case for how Martin Luther King Jr. was a good man in spite of being a Christian, rather than because of. Some statistics

Anybody , therefore, who uses the King legacy to justify the role of religion in public life must accept all the corollaries of what they seem to be implying. Even a glance at the whole record will show, first, that person for person, American freethinkers and agnostics and atheists come out the best. The chance that someone's secular or freethinking opinion would cause him or her to denounce the whole injustice was extremely high. The chance that someone's religious belief would cause him or her to take a stand against slavery and racism was sta­tistically quite small. But the chance that someone's religious belief would cause him or her to uphold slavery and racism was statistically extremely high, and the latter fact helps us to understand why the vic­tory of simple justice took so long to bring about.
page 180, Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


Moot Point...

Sorry that just bugs me...




posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 



I haven't spoken for anybody. I HAVE ONLY expressed MY THOUGHTS regarding YOUR WORDS.




In a sense, this has been my point all along.

No, it very truly hasn't been. Not even in a very, very small sense.


I don't see the words "I feel" or "in my opinion" in this response. I only see you declaring my statement to be false, as though you have any basis for telling me why I do what I do. If it were truly simply expressing your thoughts, you wouldn't have made such an absolute statement.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Hmmm. Good question.

Well... It wasn't as "good" as I thought it was. I was truly hoping that it would force you to keep your "answer" simple:

....my 'target of blame' would be the people who THINK they have, or SAY they have, "THE ANSWERS!" I said this earlier, and I still believe it. NONE of us has "THE ANSWERS!", but many are so frustrated that if someone merely CLAIMS to have "THE ANSWERS!" they will simply sit at the speaker's feet, mouths agape, enchanted, and then go home feeling "relief" - when really all they've done is 'given up' and accepted someone else's charisma as Truth.

This feeds the system of deception - the charismatic speaker feels "good", and so do the listeners, because they feel they have finally found SOMEONE who can tell them the Truth. It breeds laziness, and gives over our own powers of intellect, imagination, and investigation to another.

Because that was ONLY a very "charismatic" way of saying the same damn "thing", that I did, I reckon that I must, indeed, agree... I can give you a star for that! Do you want one?

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by pthena
 


Could you explain in more detail how you came to your current position the matter?


Warning: pthena, this is standard operating proceeduredome. Always more detail to an infinite degee is needed and then when provided; the rote (exasperated) response is "I never could figure out your posts anyway YOU DO NOT MAKE SENSE". Welcome to the CLUB, or rather what will be left after having been whittled away regarding your dignity; all that will remain: A TOOTHPICK. Be sure you have your own backup of helpful beavers.
edit on 24-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





Now get back on topic - Atheist was A Catholic. Now he's not.

My on-topic premise is that RELIGION IS NOT REQUIRED. Neither for MORALS, nor for HAPPINESS, and that it's fine if some phantom anthonycooper wants to explore life outside of it. That's his birth-right. And no one else gets to judge him -- or shame him, or pity him, or condemn him -- for that. It's HIS DECISION.


i actually did mention my view on that in passing, an atheist is a step closer to THE TRUTH.

well for the sake of it, i can give you that religion is not required for morals, but a strong belief in God does make it easy to be moral and also corrects immoralities if they exist. It should be a sincere belief and that puts all the priorities in place and gives a long term view of things rather than "everything is now and here" view which is an important cause of self-centredness and greed.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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edit on 24-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Warning: pthena, this is standard operating proceeduredome. Always more detail to an infinite degee is needed and then when provided; the rote (exasperated) response is "I never could figure out your posts anyway YOU DO NOT MAKE SENSE". Welcome to the CLUB, or rather what will be left after having been whittled away regarding your dignity; all that will remain: A TOOTHPICK. Be sure you have your own backup of helpful beavers.


Aww, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I guess some people really can't handle the truth. But I guess if I'm not able to be honest with you anymore, there's no point in talking to you.

Back to square one.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing


Welcome to the CLUB, or rather what will be left after having been whittled away regarding your dignity;

My dignity was already shot to hell before I got back into this thread today.

Be sure you have your own backup of helpful beavers.

I think I've already spotted a post by AfterInfinity that I can bounce back at him if he tries anything.

"I never could figure out your posts anyway YOU DO NOT MAKE SENSE"

I'm trying to keep it simple. If all else fails



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 



I think I've already spotted a post by AfterInfinity that I can bounce back at him if he tries anything.


You wound me.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity


You wound me.

This is page 65. I reviewed some of your back and forth with vethumanbeing, up to page 24.

Somebody should have started an off-topic appendage to this thread with pros and cons of atheism or something of the sort. I think I'll go look at wildtimes thread about ATS religious experiences.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


I know...I never expected this thread to end up with so many pages. I'd figured it would stop around 15 or so. Anyway, I have been mostly ignoring him, as his posts have generally been pointless and erratic.
edit on 24-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


Dude. Milt...!!! Why are you coming after me now, when I just agreed with your stance?

I think you are angry. Just as angry as AfterInfinity sometimes is.

I did not shoot either of you down! You asked me a question, and I answered it.
EDIT: I don't care if you give me a"star" or not. I'm only interested in the discussion at hand.



edit on 24-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


i actually did mention my view on that in passing, an atheist is a step closer to THE TRUTH.

Yes, you said that.
And THEN, you attacked the views of people who have a problem with ALL of the 'religions' again, implying (stating) that for someone to say "none of them are true" was somehow bigoted or ignorant or arrogant.

well for the sake of it, i can give you that religion is not required for morals,

Well, that's very refreshing, and reassuring!!

Maybe I misread you.
Again.
That happens between you and me more often than not.



edit on 24-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Warning: pthena, this is standard operating proceeduredome. Always more detail to an infinite degee is needed and then when provided; the rote (exasperated) response is "I never could figure out your posts anyway YOU DO NOT MAKE SENSE". Welcome to the CLUB, or rather what will be left after having been whittled away regarding your dignity; all that will remain: A TOOTHPICK. Be sure you have your own backup of helpful beavers.


Aww, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I guess some people really can't handle the truth. But I guess if I'm not able to be honest with you anymore, there's no point in talking to you. Back to square one.


TRUTH? You have no platform to proclaim any such thing, you base your belief systems in a "non-Existant GOD" Without some kind of nod to a being existing you HAVE NO ARGUEMENT at all. Similar to speaking about drought, railing against it , knowing there is such a thing as (rainfall--water) and hating it for not falling. There is no square one as you do not come close to enlightenning me to anything but your blatent contempt well hidden manipulations of the tuely sincere contributors to this thread, even those that have similar thoughtforms! When did you become an expert at determining potencial minions are not ripe for fodder, they ignored the RSVP at the "Chuckle Hut", starring AI, master ventriloquist, Punch sitting on the right knee.
edit on 24-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Best animated Cat Scene ever Antonio Banderas as Puss-n-Boots- 'trust me': I will not hurt you, (all false sincereity).

edit on 24-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Oh, I liked the hair-ball coughing the best.



posted on Jun, 24 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 

The event was "the return of Christ in 1844". The righteous were the ones who believed that it would happen, and when it didn't happen, the righteous continued to believe that they were right to believe it was going to happen.
That sounds like what I was reading today, Romans 14:13.
People who think it is a sin to eat meat from the market are sinning if they eat some because their belief makes it a sin.

If you were a New England Presbyterian and you had it pointed out that the Bible says Jesus would return in 1844, by the formula given in Daniel about the years, and you refused to believe it even though it seemed convincing that it really said that, then you would be sinning if you thought that your King James Bible was magically The Word of God as if He wrote it and translated it Himself.



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