I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

Originally posted by wildtimes
I like to think that we all have the opportunity to change things.

I agree, and beyond that, I think thats the only way it can happen. We, as individuals, need to realize how truly powerful we are. Together, we are much stronger in principle, but our cultural story allows us to somehow be more easily manipulated. I have reasoning on how this actually occurs, "scientifically," but that might be a bit more off topic than our overlord AI might want (joke! ).

I don't have much time left, either. Simply because I am beyond "middle age"....
I know I haven't as much coming as I had up to now.

I think that because all of our time is so short, it actually makes all the interactions and exchanges we have so much more profound. While part of us may exist outside of time, our memories, thoughts, and movements are temporary. What do we choose to do with them? It can, literally, make all the difference in the world.

I try to change things in my unique way also.

Your unique way has already had an impact on me, so consider it mission accomplished. That, of course, doesnt mean stop!

(And also, now I'm REALLY curious to know what your former incarnation on ATS was).

It shouldnt be too hard to figure out. I have tried to accomplish the same goal with different methods. This incarnation is the full experience, so to speak.

reply to post by Serdgiam


And this is all why I helped my friend make the transition to atheism. He sees the same opportunities in it that I do. Less reliance, more independence. The only way we can learn what we're really capable of is to actually take it upon ourselves to try instead of handing it all over to a mythical higher power. That's called "passing the buck", and we're just too good for that now.

If you had a "Git 'er dun" button that magically does everything for you, and you just kept slapping that button all the time because that makes life so much easier, where does your character come from? Your values? Your opinions and your beliefs? That's what a god has become to us. An easy way out.

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Originally posted by wildtimes
I'm very interested to hear your solutions and discoveries.

I cant go into some specifics, but I can say that I have essentially come up with the ToE as well as GUT. Why I can so easily say this is because I will simply be discarded as another "nut." The assumptions and dismissal work greatly in my favor, in this regard.

Greed is the twin sibling of religion at this point.
We MUST address the real problems of need, deprivation, intolerance, and exploitation.

Whatever it is you have come up with, I am 'on board' - as long as you reveal something that takes away "religious" zealotry and "greed."

It would take those away in time, but it does not address them directly. In fact, it is a solution that appeals to literally everyone, as well as the tools to carry it out.

I think that is the only way to do it. Luckily, and perhaps even inspired by God, the method of changing a tenet of all of our cultural story can not only be done by everyone, but it also benefits everyone (from the poorest to the greediest). It appeals to the entire spectrum because it satisfies the needs of everyone, and by doing so, also satisfies the greed.

It goes back to the post I made about education, but the core principle is to approach the foundation of our society with everything we have learned up to this point using the scientific method. It has never been applied to government, nor has it ever been applied to our cultural story. I think the current biggest hurdle is having people realize that our cultural story, the way the world is, is a result of all of our choices. We can make different ones, but what should drive the motivation?

If one can come up with a method that literally satisfies all paths, but is still discarded in general, what else can we try? I am asking honestly, because this is very, very important to me (and everyone, imo). I think all of our lives basically depend on it, and if not ours, then our children or grandchildren.

Okay, so, we're cool. Thanks for hanging in there long enough to hear me out.

We are more than cool. I haz an interwebz crush on ya

reply to post by wildtimes

Good Lord, pi!!! Can you REALLY say those things and STILL think you are pious and good? It's disgraceful, really.

Truth always hurts and is hard to be believed,until the material proof will be given,and will be...

Reality of the other world and the reality of this world has common points which is the human soul,only there is of an infinity stronger than this one here ,this is why this life must be lived in faith.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


To some, yes. I think we all need to honestly pursue our own path. There isnt one single path out there that will work for everyone. I think that we ALL need to find our own path, but then just as importantly, start walking. I think the saddest part about all idealogies is that so many of them dismiss the personal journey. In my beliefs, its the personal journey that should be encouraged above arbitrary conformation.

However, I believe in God and I can assure you, that with my life circumstances, it is most certainly *not* the easy way out.

reply to post by piequal3because14

this is why this life must be lived in faith.

Look around you. How much of what you now have was built on faith, and how much was built on science? Your computer, your phone, your house, your fridge, your television, your car, that road, that convenience store, the food you eat, the medicine that helps you feel better when you're sick, your clothes, your running water, your heat...wow. Science has done wonders for you. Imagine if we'd never had science at all. Just faith. The world would be a lot different, but not necessarily better. Without science, you might have died as a child.

reply to post by Serdgiam

However, I believe in God and I can assure you, that with my life circumstances, it is most certainly *not* the easy way out.

Why? Why do you believe in a deity? Why is a god the only logical conclusion?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Look around you. How much of what you now have was built on faith, and how much was built on science? Your computer, your phone, your house, your fridge, your television, your car, that road, that convenience store, the food you eat, the medicine that helps you feel better when you're sick, your clothes, your running water, your heat...wow. Science has done wonders for you. Imagine if we'd never had science at all. Just faith. The world would be a lot different, but not necessarily better. Without science, you might have died as a child.

I have never understood why some religious people are so opposed to what we creatively do with God's work.

Like I said before, the energy here is an absolute. We cant actually destroy it our create it, but we change it inherently. Even by eating, we are changing that energy in much the same way as we do with a steam engine.

I also have to say that we also have faith in the medicines and technology we use. In my case, I had faith that doctors could eventually find out what was going on, but I was wrong. They also had faith that they could succeed, and they were also wrong. But, I dont think having that faith itself is wrong.

And I hope the fact I believe in God does not deter conversations because of outright dismissal.

reply to post by Serdgiam

And I hope the fact I believe in God does not deter conversations because of outright dismissal.

That's why I'm asking instead of just attacking.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

However, I believe in God and I can assure you, that with my life circumstances, it is most certainly *not* the easy way out.

Why? Why do you believe in a deity? Why is a god the only logical conclusion?

Would you prefer I use the term "universe" or "all that is?" The name isnt relevant.

Though, I do not find it to be the "only logical conclusion." It is simply where my path lead me. Others may lead them to atheism, but in totality, it just shows the true complexity of what is here in the universe.

edit: And no need to roll your eyes I had not read your other post until after I posted that.

reply to post by Serdgiam

Would you prefer I use the term "universe" or "all that is?" The name isnt relevant.

Though, I do not find it to be the "only logical conclusion." It is simply where my path lead me. Others may lead them to atheism, but in totality, it just shows the true complexity of what is here in the universe.

What you mean by "god" is completely relevant, in fact.

So what do you mean by "god"? And what process led you to this conclusion?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Does this mean you're "God"? Because it would explain sooo much... About this world, I mean, not about you.

Although you don't know but after infinity comes more infinity,because lost souls wants to end that infinite suffering when they are in Hell.

In Heaven they will never say that after infinity comes more infinity,because there is a feeling that you will never want to end.

So for you after infinity will come more infinity,because my words are always the Truth....you will see

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Look around you. How much of what you now have was built on faith, and how much was built on science? Your computer, your phone, your house, your fridge, your television, your car, that road, that convenience store, the food you eat, the medicine that helps you feel better when you're sick, your clothes, your running water, your heat...wow. Science has done wonders for you. Imagine if we'd never had science at all. Just faith. The world would be a lot different, but not necessarily better. Without science, you might have died as a child.

And what is your point, did I denied science?

As always you to try to track things on a road of lie,in a way of disambiguation.

I never denied science,on contrary....I like science,therefore I think you are a radical believer in whatever you belive by comparing the two.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
What you mean by "god" is completely relevant, in fact.

Not in my perspective, but that wont apply to yours, obviously!

So what do you mean by "god"? And what process led you to this conclusion?

By "God" I mean an omnipotent and omniscient entity, or system. And that the "Love" of God can be explained through magnetism/electricity. We can intrinsically perceive this, though we also perceive a brain-based emotion that we label love. Different cultures through the centuries have come up with different words, but in modern English there is no differentiation.

The process was years upon years of actively trying to scientifically show "the God experience" and how it can be explained. My intention was to show how the universe itself was so amazing, that it has appeared as a "god" throughout many different cultures. At a certain point, I realized that in a twist of irony, I was also working towards showing how such a situation could actually be feasible. By practicing physics, science, and the scientific method, I was only exploring what others had through religion.

reply to post by Serdgiam

By "God" I mean an omnipotent and omniscient entity, or system. And that the "Love" of God can be explained through magnetism/electricity.

So a distinct and conscious entity, then?

And that the "Love" of God can be explained through magnetism/electricity. We can intrinsically perceive this, though we also perceive a brain-based emotion that we label love. Different cultures through the centuries have come up with different words, but in modern English there is no differentiation.

What makes you so sure this god isn't a translation of one of the four forces?

The process was years upon years of actively trying to scientifically show "the God experience" and how it can be explained. At a certain point, I realized that in a twist of irony, I was also working towards showing how such a situation could actually be feasible. By practicing physics, science, and the scientific method, I was only exploring what others had through religion.

A conscious, distinct, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity? This is scientifically feasible? Perhaps you should explain in more detail. I wasn't sparing with my descriptions, so I would appreciate the same from you.

reply to post by piequal3because14

Although you don't know but after infinity comes more infinity,because lost souls wants to end that infinite suffering when they are in Hell.

Read your Bible again, wise guy. A thousand years of suffering and then the final death, where the soul is destroyed and they are no more. Not an eternity of suffering. Get your "facts" straight.

In Heaven they will never say that after infinity comes more infinity,because there is a feeling that you will never want to end.

How do you appreciate something when you have nothing to compare it to? After a while, you would forget what it was like to ever go without. Maybe that's why we're here - we've already been to heaven, and now we're in Lucifer's universe to remember what it was like to be without. This way, when we go back, we'll appreciate everything anew.

Purely speculation, of course. A metaphorical translation of something similar to Law of One, which makes so much more sense than many of the religions being touted on Earth. In any case, what you're talking about just seems worthless to me. It seems...indulgent. Like gluttony.

It's ironic, isn't it? If you fail to please "God", you are rewarded with one portion of the seven deadly sins, and if you succeed in pleasing him, you are rewarded with the rest of them. It's as though you spend your whole life avoiding them only to embrace them in the afterlife. That just makes so much sense!

So for you after infinity will come more infinity,because my words are always the Truth....you will see

I sincerely doubt it.

reply to post by piequal3because14

I never denied science,on contrary....I like science,therefore I think you are a radical believer in whatever you belive by comparing the two.

Interesting! You never denied science!

this is why this life must be lived in faith

Science isn't developed through faith, Pi. Sorry to break it to you, but faith is little more than shorthand for, "I have these reasons to lie to myself, which I consider to be very good reasons, and the reasons you have for being honest with myself are complete rubbish."

First, a couple of things to understand. If you approach me with the concept of me being a religious person, you will not find that. Your beliefs being right or wrong is not only none of my concern, but it is something I am not capable of determining anyway. By learning about each other, I think we learn how diverse the universe can actually manifest. I have no interest whatsoever in you believing what I believe, but rather, of learning the different ways we all perceive what is around us.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
So a distinct and conscious entity, then?

As distinct and conscious as our mind is to our own bodies.

What makes you so sure this god isn't a translation of one of the four forces?

The universe would contain that as well. However, magnetism and electricity are a unique force here and I think our current understanding of how these things work and intertwine is limited at best.

A conscious, distinct, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity? This is scientifically feasible? Perhaps you should explain in more detail. I wasn't sparing with my descriptions, so I would appreciate the same from you.

We have knowledge of consciousness, but no real method to directly determine what is conscious or not. I do not attempt to claim otherwise. However, a "distinct, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity" succinctly describes the universe, and its constituents, itself.

AI, I am doing my best. I am not intentionally doing whatever you think I am doing. It is something that is a team effort. If you think I am not giving you satisfactory answers, then I would appreciate being told specifics. It may seem obvious to you, but it isnt to me.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Read your Bible again, wise guy. A thousand years of suffering and then the final death, where the soul is destroyed and they are no more. Not an eternity of suffering. Get your "facts" straight.

Sorry but I never read that book.

It's ironic, isn't it? If you fail to please "God", you are rewarded with one portion of the seven deadly sins, and if you succeed in pleasing him, you are rewarded with the rest of them. It's as though you spend your whole life avoiding them only to embrace them in the afterlife. That just makes so much sense!

Bubbling.

I sincerely doubt it.

Good.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by piequal3because14

 

I never denied science,on contrary....I like science,therefore I think you are a radical believer in whatever you belive by comparing the two.

Interesting! You never denied science!

this is why this life must be lived in faith

Science isn't developed through faith, Pi. Sorry to break it to you, but faith is little more than shorthand for, "I have these reasons to lie to myself, which I consider to be very good reasons, and the reasons you have for being honest with myself are complete rubbish."

edit on 22-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Sorry but this is my post,

And what is your point, did I denied science?

As always you to try to track things on a road of lie,in a way of disambiguation.

I never denied science,on contrary....I like science,therefore I think you are a radical believer in whatever you belive by comparing the two.