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I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

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posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 

Dear boymonkey74,


I better warn you Colbe thinks that the Catholic child abuse scandel is the fault of homosexuals.

So do I.

The best, and most well known, non-religious study of the Church abuse scandal is the one done by the John Jay College of Law. Among other things, it points out that 81% of the cases were male-male, and only 19% were male-female.

Further, 77.4% of the victims alleged that their first abuse was at age 11 or older. So, it wasn't pedophilia, we're looking at homosexual activities with post-pubescent males. (Both taken from tables in Chapter 4.3)
www.jjay.cuny.edu...

I hope you enjoy having false ideas erased as much as I do.

With respect,
Charles1952




posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



So, if satan made the decision to truly repent and ask for forgiveness from your god, he would not receive it?

I am not saying a devil would actually do this, but if he did, you are saying he would be turned away?

I guess the truth might hurt.

Not before the souls he have in his possesion.

But some souls we be left forever in the possesion of the Devil.

And I know which one.....even if not that many will be left there in a distant future.

Because those left there will never ask for forgiveness.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by piequal3because14
I guess the truth might hurt.

Our individual perceptions of the "truth," and our beliefs surrounding it have no relevance whatsoever to reality or what really takes place. They are merely a part of it.


Not before the souls he have in his possesion.

But some souls we be left forever in the possesion of the Devil.

And I know which one.....even if not that many will be left there in a distant future.

I dont see how this is relevant to what I am asking you, would you mind explaining how this answers my questions?


Because those left there will never ask for forgiveness.

While I do not believe you can have knowledge of any such things, I see that as the easy way out from my question. Think of it like a thought experiment, or something similar.

If they did ask for forgiveness and truly repented, would they be turned away by your god?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



If they did ask for forgiveness and truly repented, would they be turned away by your god?
They don't because they live in the purity of the Devil,like many here on Earth does,....or did!



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BenReclused
 



Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I explained to him how he could make his own salvation. His fate is his own to determine.

Actually, the point was for him to own himself.

In order to convert him to atheism, you must have told him that the above weren't possible, if he held a belief in God. Did you?


I told him his options regarding the above were limited in most traditional religions, including Catholicism.

It seems that you avoided my question. I didn't ask whether, or not, religions limited his options. I asked if you told him that a belief in God limited those options. If so, why?


Disclaimer: I am about to be really sarcastic, so if you're sensitive with a particular allergy to humor, I would advise you skip the next eight lines.

I CONVERTED A CATHOLIC INTO AN ATHEIST HEHEHE I'M SUCH A BAD PERSON NOW I'M SURE TO GO TO HELL AND ROAST WITH THE HOMOSEXUALS AND WICCANS!!! I AM JUST SO PROUD OF BEING EVIL AND SINFUL!!!

...Ahem. There. Now I've given you a reason to be upset. Here, let me bask in it. *pulls out sunglasses* Ah, hell hath no fury like an indignant theist.

Nah... I'm not upset, in the least. Actually, I was quite amused by your little "tantrum".


To be fair, I've only ever said I was proud of helping him, not converting him.

No, that's not fair, at all! That is, only, dishonest.


So in conclusion...I have both furthered the cause and preserved my integrity in the process. I inadvertently converted a Catholic to atheism. You may bow now.

That comment IS nothing more, or less, than an expression of the pride you took in furthering "THE CAUSE", preserving YOUR "INTEGRITY", AND in CONVERTING "a Catholic to atheism".


If you don't believe me, that's not my problem.

You should be more concerned about being honest with yourself, than what I may believe. I DO, indeed, feel that is your responsibility.


Freedom of happiness, in other words. Sounds good to me.

You seem to feel that "freedom of happiness" is incompatible with the existence of God. Why?


I'm perfectly happy to let you submit your opinion...as long as you accept mine in return.

Why do you feel that I should "accept" an opinion that I disagree with? I, CERTAINLY, don't expect that from you! Or, anyone else, for that matter!


Again, your interpretive difficulties are not my problem. There's a therapist 15 miles down the road who is willing to listen to your complaints for $45 an hour.

I have no doubt that YOUR therapist would interpret YOUR title in the same way that I do.

See ya,
Milt
edit on 21-6-2013 by BenReclused because: Typo



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by piequal3because14
 


But why would a father turn his face from me, his supposed child? Is he ashamed of his creation?

edit on 21-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Yes, it seems that our biological parents are better fit for the job than the Christian god.

Christians say that 'God's love is unconditional', but 'only if you love him back'. Quite the contradiction if I may say so myself.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by piequal3because14
reply to post by Serdgiam
 



If they did ask for forgiveness and truly repented, would they be turned away by your god?
They don't because they live in the purity of the Devil,like many here on Earth does,....or did!



Right.

So, are you saying they wont repent? (in which case, you might want to look up what a thought experiment is!)

Or, are you saying that if they would repent, they would be turned away?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



The best, and most well known, non-religious study of the Church abuse scandal is the one done by the John Jay College of Law. Among other things, it points out that 81% of the cases were male-male, and only 19% were male-female.

Further, 77.4% of the victims alleged that their first abuse was at age 11 or older. So, it wasn't pedophilia, we're looking at homosexual activities with post-pubescent males. (Both taken from tables in Chapter 4.3)
www.jjay.cuny.edu..



That's a fine line that you're walking there Charles. One has to wonder why these priests chose children to have their "homosexual" relations with and not with consenting adults.

Post pubescence means after puberty. An 11 year old is only beginning puberty. Puberty typically ends at between 15 - 17 years of age for boys. The molestation and rape of these children isn't about sexual urges or the expression of love though, it's about control. Taking advantage of children who are not experienced with their own sexuality and who can't legally consent to sex is child abuse and not a "homosexual" trait.


Just to be service-y: the word for abuse of post-pubescent boys is Ephebophilia (from ephebos, the Greek word for an adolescent boy).

Also, I think it's absolutely preposterous to claim that the abuse of pre- and post-pubescent children by Catholic clergy has anything to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality: these abusers have a serious mental illness that causes (or at least predisposes them to) their unconscionable behavior. No healthy person - gay or straight - wants to abuse children. Period.

Finally, Bill Donohue and the Catholic League's agenda here is clearly to turn the force and momentum of outrage at the abuse scandal into outrage at gay people, their allies and the liberal culture at large that accepts their existence.


Best New Catholic Church Defense: It's Not Pedophilia If the Boys Were Post-Pubescent


See, if the kids were post-pubescent—12 or 13, according to Bill—then it's not pedophilia anymore, it is homosexuality. And that means it's not the fault of the church, it is the fault of Gays.



MELBOURNE, June 6 (UPI) -- The Catholic Church in Victoria, Australia, revised upward the number of children it says were sexually abused by clergy and staff from 620 to at least 849. In its original submission to the Victoria child abuse inquiry, the church said it had paid compensation to 620 victims, the Australian Broadcasting Corp. reported Thursday. Further analysis of church documents revealed at least 849 were abused since the 1950s

Those found guilty include 114 brothers, 98 priests, 42 lay people, nine nuns, two seminarians and two listed as unknown.

Read more: www.upi.com...



O'Grady was a priest at St. Anne's from 1971 through 1978. He also served at parishes in Stockton, Turlock, Hughson and San Andreas before being arrested in San Andreas in 1993. He spent seven years at Mule Creek State Prison in Ione after pleading guilty to four counts of sexual abuse with children under 14 in Calaveras County while he a priest in San Andreas.

He was paroled from Mule Creek in 2000 and deported to his native Ireland. In late 2010, O'Grady was arrested on charges of possessing thousands of photos of child pornography. He was sentenced to three years in an Irish prison after pleading guilty to three counts of possessing child pornography.
www.huffingtonpost.com...


N.J. Catholics Outraged Over Archbishop's Defense Of Accused Priest's Access To Children

German priest admits 280 counts of child abuse


THE HAGUE, Netherlands — The head of a Dutch inquiry into child abuse in the Catholic church school system says yearly complaints are up 100-fold since allegations emerged of worldwide abuse.
www.huffingtonpost.com...


Spanish priest arrested over '21,000 child porn images'



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by HarryTZ
Yes, it seems that our biological parents are better fit for the job than the Christian god.

Christians say that 'God's love is unconditional', but 'only if you love him back'. Quite the contradiction if I may say so myself.


Not all christians say that.

And it most certainly is a contradiction isnt it?

It leads to the question of whether to believe the basics, the actual tenets of the religion, or all of the baggage that religion has tied on to it over the years. It would seem that that specific contradiction would be quite a powerful tool for control, and that makes me think there is a good chance that organizations that seek control are very likely to have created it themselves, knowing full well it is contradictory. Yet, they also know that enough people will willingly follow along so that it wont matter.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



Right.

So, are you saying they wont repent? (in which case, you might want to look up what a thought experiment is!)

Or, are you saying that if they would repent, they would be turned away?


Pure and simple they cannot....



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by piequal3because14
reply to post by Serdgiam
 



Right.

So, are you saying they wont repent? (in which case, you might want to look up what a thought experiment is!)

Or, are you saying that if they would repent, they would be turned away?


Pure and simple they cannot....


Ok, you are saying they can not repent? Is that because of personal choice, or because they would be turned away? Im really not sure how else to ask this, honestly...



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BenReclused
 



Taking pride in one's positive influences on another is one thing, wanting to be honored for that, is quite another.


Oh, right...that's what Christians do. My bad.

NO NO WAIT. That's what GOD does. Sorry, my bad again.

edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Oh, right...that's what Christians do. My bad.

Nah... Only misguided individuals do that! And, you have proven that act doesn't require a belief in God.


NO NO WAIT. That's what GOD does. Sorry, my bad again.

We both know that you don't have a belief in God, so I reckon that's just another one of your "snide comments". Well done!

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
And you guys wondered why my friend is now an atheist...life is just so much better without a god telling you how to think and feel.


edit on 21-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Depends upon where he lives for the moment, in some areas social castigation (outcast) would be norm, in other locations hed be stoned or allowed to marry. That is not a God deal, that is a STATE governed or one that involves the question of social morays. If you are referencing scripture, well, that is just an interpretation of Gods will by Man. Dont blame it on God, only a humans perception of what they think God may think. Life is so much better without a God Concept if you are a narcisist or an Egomaniac, or one that tends to harm others by taking things from them (that could be sold to a customer, or consume; the contents of anothers refrigerator, top shelf (freezer, the carton of souls disguised as strawberry icecream).
edit on 21-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


So let me get this straight, my good chap: you're here to poke holes in my ideas without giving me anything to replace them with?

No! Those "holes" were already there. I'm only bringing them to your attention. It's up to you to decide what to "plug" them with.


Just wanna leave me with a broken boat?

Why not? You don't want to abandon it, and I can't help you "fix" it!

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by piequal3because14

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by piequal3because14
 


But why would a father turn his face from me, his supposed child? Is he ashamed of his creation?

edit on 21-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
Because you took his name Here,
www.abovetopsecret.com...and you realy did that!


Here is the answer right before you. AI said it. There is gram of pievance factor here, a problem of God not showing particular favoritism towards this particular child, a slighting felt at some point that has engendered this entire dialoge (FATHER FIGURE rejected or neglected its child) and here within is the reason for ALL OF THE WRATH and railing against the "absent Father=GOD" .
edit on 21-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

Dear vethumanbeing,

Sorry to disagree a little here, but the Secret Archives have been open to scholars for years. The material in it is frequently used for reference work. Granted, you have to be a scholar in a field somewhat related to the material, and you need a recommendation from a University, but it's open for viewing.


For scholars only, (no ghosts of Plato, or Socrates, Decartres, Herodotus). Gracious of them by fact THEY STOLE THEM from family estate archives during the inquistion; and before that the destroying, murdering of the great landholding families of France (Templars) and stealing their lands. Id like to see the offical 'list of willing donors" otherwise, (by a chokehold).

edit on 21-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


And you guys wondered why my friend is now an atheist...life is just so much better without a god telling you how to think and feel.

I wasn't aware that God ever told your friend "how to think and feel". Did He?

See ya,
Milt



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


And you guys wondered why my friend is now an atheist...life is just so much better without a god telling you how to think and feel.

I wasn't aware that God ever told your friend "how to think and feel". Did He?


God must have spoken, and in so doing exists. There must be a family dynamic happening here, something Jung or Freud would probably love to explore.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Serdgiam
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


I dont know what it means that I am beginning to understand your posts... Im a little scared vet...

I do think that they have given some access recently, however, I highly doubt they have given access to *everything* (we are both probably on the same page there).
It does start to veer a bit OT, and while incredibly interesting, I feel we need to refrain out of respect to AI. Whether or not you have that respect is not up to me, but I do. At least a little.


Respect for AI? Of course I do otherwise why bother responding to its thread? If you can decifer my posts you must be using the 'random number generator' that AI invented for ME ALONE. Refrain from veering off topic? You wont really know it until your post becomes officially "off topic" removed and that is up to the Gods of ATS. See, when you experience it you will know there is a Godform that DOES EXIST.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


" It seems that you avoided my question. I didn't ask whether, or not, religions limited his options. I asked if you told him that a belief in God limited those options. If so, why?"

Because gods always want something, and are in a position to procure it in any way that amuses them. So they make us dance.

" Nah... I'm not upset, in the least. Actually, I was quite amused by your little "tantrum"."

it wasn't a tantrum, it was a message.

" No, that's not fair, at all! That is, only, dishonest."

in your opinion. Unless you claim to be psychic?

" That comment IS nothing more, or less, than an expression of the pride you took in furthering "THE CAUSE", preserving YOUR "INTEGRITY", AND in CONVERTING "a Catholic to atheism"."

welcome to humor.

" You seem to feel that "freedom of happiness" is incompatible with the existence of God. Why?"

I feel he throws the baby out with the bathwater.

" Why do you feel that I should "accept" an opinion that I disagree with? I, CERTAINLY, don't expect that from you! Or, anyone else, for that matter! "

I said accept, not agree with. Big difference.



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