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I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

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posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Then I guess I won't make much of a difference.
*shrug*
But I will speak for those causes until my breath fails me. If I've influenced even ONE person to toe that line, it's worth it.
(And I know I have. AT LEAST I raised two kids that 'get it' and I taught others to the best of my ability. Not that my ability is so great - but, that's my intention and motive.)




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Out of curiosity, what are you most afraid of in this world? I feel your answer is going to be an interesting one. The reason I ask is because our fears are a very essential part of what we believe in and why. Fear plays an enormous role in any religion or belief system you name. In fact, it plays a heavy role in human existence, period.

So if there is one question that reveals anything about us, it is - what are we afraid of?
edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Out of curiosity, what are you most afraid of in this world?

Tough question!

The destruction of this planet, and the suffering of my children.

WHAT ABOUT YOU? What are YOU most afraid of?


edit on 20-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


AND I want to add a thing that doesn't 'frighten' me so much as make me viciously angry: The indifference of 'mankind' to EVERY LIVING THING on this planet.
edit on 20-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



WHAT ABOUT YOU? What are YOU most afraid of?


Suffering. I understand its purpose, doesn't mean I enjoy it.


AND I want to add a thing that doesn't 'frighten' me so much as make me viciously angry: The indifference of 'mankind' to EVERY LIVING THING on this planet.


Indifference in general irritates me. That and self-imposed ignorance - when people choose not to understand more than they do.
edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


We humans all have to suffer, Aft.

It's part of the life experience. The 'imposition' of a "dominionist ideal" of destroying the planet because "it doesn't matter and Jesus is coming to save us" really, REALLY scares me.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Thank you for the post.


It doesnt address the main point of my issue; that applying the same standard to our own actions is perhaps more difficult than when using it to judge others. It was interesting how you manipulated the analogy to put yourself in the place of a deity, though not surprising.

That said, it will help me in my own path as I see that the way I am relating just doesnt translate to those who are perhaps like-minded to you. I appreciate the opportunity.

While I do not think what you are doing will actually fix the issue (I truly mean no offense with this), I greatly appreciate your conviction and passion.

Thank you for taking the time.

edit on 20-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


That said, it will help me in my own path as I see that the way I am relating just doesnt translate to those who are perhaps like-minded to you. I appreciate the opportunity.

While I do not think what you are doing will actually fix the issue (I truly mean no offense with this), I greatly appreciate your conviction and passion.

Thank you for taking the time.

You're welcome.
So, would you now tell me (us) what your own path is, please?
I'm all for having multiple approaches.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


It was interesting how you manipulated the analogy to put yourself in the place of a deity, though not surprising.

Wait.

WHAT?!!!

I was talking about our human ability to understand how nature works! That has nothing at all to do with being a 'deity'.
Now I wish I hadn't starred your post.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Sure, though I cant publicly announce all of it. Please respect that


Education reform;

Teaching our children the scientific method, and having them explore the world with it in the elementary school years. Then, in later years, we teach them what we know. This gives opportunity to be wrong (something which is missing even more nowadays) and teaches how to learn before what to learn. We do it the other way around, and as I have said, its indoctrination and not education.

Energy reform;

We have the technology and science to provide energy needs for everyone on the planet. It is currently seen as more profitable to not do this, although that is a faulty idea.

Perspective & Cultural Story reform;

While this is a broad topic, I am speaking of one specific. That is what I have been talking about all along; exploitation is a worse avenue for everyone than enabling and encouragement. We put greed before need, but the problem is that doesnt satisfy the greed or the need. When we handle everyones needs, it actually satisfies individual greed more than the way we choose now. The amount of progress from this one change alone would be beyond anyones imagination in a matter of one or two generations.

We go along with what we already know, because its easy. Fight against what you feel is wrong, and things will all sort out. The problem is, that is exactly what we have been doing for thousands of years. Instead, the idea is to consciously approach our cultural story with the scientific method.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


It was interesting how you manipulated the analogy to put yourself in the place of a deity, though not surprising.

Wait.

WHAT?!!!

I was talking about our human ability to understand how nature works! That has nothing at all to do with being a 'deity'.
Now I wish I hadn't starred your post.


Sucks to be you


I said it wasnt surprising because AI did something very, very similar as well, and intentionally. Perhaps you didnt read those exchanges though.

Interesting how you took it as a negative accusation though..
edit on 20-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



We humans all have to suffer, Aft.

It's part of the life experience. The 'imposition' of a "dominionist ideal" of destroying the planet because "it doesn't matter and Jesus is coming to save us" really, REALLY scares me.


As I said, I understand the purpose of suffering. I have incorporated a lot of Taoist principles into my atheist philosophy. The candle and the shadow, etc. There is always an opposite. Opposites lend meaning in similar fashion to the Torus model. I explained this to my friend, actually. It seems that few grasp the dual nature of everything. What I mean by this is the hilarious fact that dualism is compounded. No matter how far you zoom in or out, every duality has a duality has a duality has a duality has a duality. This is why balance is so important, because if you insist upon always choosing one side, you will forever be struggling with what to choose at each juncture. If you learn balance, you will be able to choose what is best for you at each juncture, filtering duality to the necessary degree to bring yourself harmony in this existence.

Taking it a step further, this compoundment of actions or ideals is so pervasive that if you were to imagine a single idea as a point in space, you could draw a ring around it. Every straight line has an infinite amount of points, right? Every single point on that ring represents a direction by which that idea, that single point in space, could be expressed or developed. Now: adjust that ring by the smallest possible integer. Instantly, you have another plethora of possible expressions and expoundments. Another integer, again, more expressions and ways to flesh it out. Another integer, another integer, another integer. This concept essentially means that any given idea is infinite in its expressions and applications.

Our only barrier is imagination. Now we come to language, the tool of our imagination. If you cannot express or define an idea, how do you start to communicate it? A feral scream on a mountain top? Running naked through the streets like a madman? No. There are more refined methods as long as you can understand them. Calibrate them. Focus them. Craft. But how is language created exactly? You take a pattern of symbols or vibrations and attach meaning to them. You anchor them. You attach an emotion or another anchored pattern to that pattern. And when you have a vast web of interconnected and inter-anchored patterns, you have a web of understanding. But what if someone introduces a new concept and convinces you or tricks you into rearranging that web of understanding? Suddenly, you no longer feel the same. You no longer think the same. You see things differently and react differently. You even live differently.

And as time goes on, these people who introduce these ideas show those ideas inside a box. And as our understand and comprehension evolves and expands, those patterns that are anchored to those little boxes remain the same...because the emotions and ideas inside those boxes are impervious to the influences and developments that caused others to evolve. These ideas stagnate. They shrivel and die. And then you are left with outdated and dysfunctional ideas that continue to plague the underworld of our communications. These are the rotten apples.

These rotten apples form a fence around our imagination, forcing us to stay within the boundaries imposed by these ideals that were never allowed to evolve. As such, the same ideologies carry over from generation to generation, fostering and fertilizing the ideals that you have mentioned above. The understanding we have today does not reach those ideas. The light fails to illuminate the contents of those boxes. And so, our imagination is stunted. Which means, of course, that our growth and comprehension suffers as a result.

Now you know a small part of why I fear suffering. Suffering is a symptom of resistance. Resistance to what? And why? These are the questions we fail to ask ourselves, and so we fail to understand ourselves...and that's when we fail to imagine other possibilities.

Because, you know, the first step to imagination is understanding what we already have.

edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


teaches how to learn before what to learn.

I'm VERY CERTAIN that I have already mentioned that education is supposed to teach HOW TO LEARN. It is doing that less now, by teaching rote and to-the-test lessons. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW the history of the world, and to look at the bigger picture.

But, whatever. I guess you still don't 'get' me.
And that's like, fine, whatever, if you don't want to share it publicly. Respect that? I have no reason to 'respect' that you won't go public with your 'method' or 'path.'

What are YOU most afraid of, Serdg?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



I said it wasnt surprising because AI did something very, very similar as well, and intentionally. Perhaps you didnt read those exchanges though.


See my above post. Everything I explained there is one of the "tent poles" that convinced him to make the transition. He understands exactly what I mean when I say that our understanding has failed to evolve, and therefore, so has our spirituality.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I am just getting to that post, but I wanted to respond first.

Putting ourselves in the "gardener" position isnt a negative to my perspective.

Heck, even in many religions, there is the idea that "God only helps those who are willing to help themselves." By turning into the gardener, that is exactly what we are doing. I think it is a good thing, but it wasnt taken that way.

edit: Oh, and "the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest" ;P
edit on 20-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Sucks to be you


I said it wasnt surprising because AI did something very, very similar as well, and intentionally. Perhaps you didnt read those exchanges though.

WHAT?!!

You think I'm a 'student' of Aft's? Hardly. SO WHAT? if he said something similar??????

I've read the ENTIRE THREAD, post by post.

No, it doesn't 'suck to be me.'

Okay, you know what? I tried. If you have anything more to say, I may or may not respond, but do NOT put me in a handbasket with anyone else on this board, Serdg.



edit on 20-6-2013 by wildtimes because: typo



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wild. Chill out. Explain. Imagine that Serdgiam is one of those kids you like to help and realize that his understanding is only as good as you help it to be. Getting angry never helps. Just take a deep breath and relax. He is a user on the internet and he has no power over your place in this reality. There's no need to be upset. Just help him understand and ignore him if need be.
edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I think duality dives into a very interesting topic, to be sure.

Since I understand things through science/math (or attempt to do so!), I will state how I see it.

Duality, or what we conceive of as duality, arose from a 2d particle (Circle) snapping into a 3d wave. To contain the full data of the initial particle at any one point in time, there needs to be two waves. I think we perceive this as duality. Using these to our advantage, and "compounding the interest" is far more pertinent than you may understand. This is the part I am not able to go into.

When we learn to dance along with other dualities, we allow the full data to be shown..

I think you bring up an interesting point with "Bridging the Communication Gap." Its a difficult thing, inherently. I actually believe that this can most easily be done through math and also the scientific method. But, it needs to be a foundation of education for this to even be relevant, which is why I think the scientific method should be the basis for primary education. I think we all realize that there are some serious issues with our educational system, but what solutions are there?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wild. Chill out. Explain. Imagine that Serdgiam is one of those kids you like to help and realize that his understanding is only as good as you help it to be. Getting angry never helps. Just take a deep breath and relax. He is a user on the internet and he has no power over your place in this reality. There's no need to be upset. Just help him understand and ignore him if need be.


Well put!

All we do is communicate how we are perceiving something. We may be entirely wrong.

Like I said though, you (wild) seem to be perceiving something as a negative when I actually think it is one of the core aspects of a real solution!

By taking the responsibility of what we tend to relegate to a deity, I think that is when the garden begins to flourish. This does imply we are perhaps more than just our physical being (the plants), but that is probably an entirely different discussion.
edit on 20-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: clarity



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Teaching them how to recognize the absence of data and encouraging them to seek it out. Demonstrate how a complete set of data is crucial to informed decisions. Demonstrate how informed decisions can make all the difference. Do NOT, under any circumstances, give the impression that they are incapable of their own navigation and fulfillment.

The most important part of communication is knowing yourself. How can you understand others if you don't understand yourself? How can you locate a point in the vast web of ideals if you don't have a point to start from, or you don't understand how everything is related?

'Compounded' is a very good word for pretty much everything in general. Interconnectivity, duality, awareness, all of that good stuff. If it exists, some part of it exists at a much higher and lower level. "As above, so below"...such a phrase has never possessed more meaning in our lives.
edit on 20-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Teaching them how to recognize the absence of data and encouraging them to seek it out. Demonstrate how a complete set of data is crucial to informed decisions. Demonstrate how informed decisions can make all the difference. Do NOT, under any circumstances, give the impression that they are incapable of their own navigation and fulfillment.


Since we are all moving, we are all capable of navigation and fulfillment inherently. I think it just depends on what cup we are trying to fill, and even whether it is half-empty or half-full. Perhaps, it is dualistically both.

I dont think it is so much recognizing the absence of data, but rather, utilizing the data we DO have to its fullest potential. (Half empty or half full?)


The most important part of communication is knowing yourself. How can you understand others if you don't understand yourself? How can you locate a point in the vast web of ideals if you don't have a point to start from?


Do you feel this is relevant beyond the physical universe? Do you believe the physical universe is all that exists?
edit on 20-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



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