Education System Too Liberal?

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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 04:41 AM
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There have been several posts here in ATS referring to education system being too liberal.

Being interested in different educational policies, I wonder how can a system be "too liberal".

However I try to think on the matter, whether the education I got in public schools or universities, I can not see any place which would make the education system too "liberal".

To be honest, I can not even think on any specific points that can be considered liberal. Giving kids strong environmental education, health education; teaching them being tolerant and respectful towards others, even when one does not hold the same values, can be considered liberal, although I doubt that is what is meant when people say the education system is too liberal, as these are just common sense.

Can anybody bring some examples about the liberal education and explain why these points can be considered liberal?

Thank You
edit on 15-6-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Cabin

Can anybody bring some examples about the liberal education and explain why these points can be considered liberal?



An example.

When I was in college (during the 1st Gulf War) a professor went on a rant on how it was costing the American tax payer 1 million dollars a day to operate just one ship out of the Navy's fleet. She went on and on about the terrible things being done and all the money spent.
I raised my hand and replied that even if the ship was docked stateside, it would cost a million dollars a day just because that's how much it cost to maintain the ship, feed and pay the people on it.

She looked at me and said, "You narrow-minded son of a bitch."

The "liberal" part comes to play when only one ideology is accepted and all other viewpoints discounted.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


I fear that your thread will soon be filled with nonsense about the school system being run by godless sooper seekrit Communists. Speaking as the husband of a teacher I think that the school systems in the UK and USA are doing a fine job.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 

Yes.

By the same token, there are concepts like "manifest destiny". Neat way of saying that the new Americans were going to head West, warring and killing the original Americans along the way.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Yes, I went to a liberal arts college that was a bit too liberal in some cases.

All of the men looked like super-models and wore the latest fashions, beer was plentiful and served by cafeteria workers, most everyone smoked, most everyone got good grades and had fun learning, there were parties Wed. Fri. and Sat., free movies, free bowling, great community, lots of political discussion and debate, critical thinking was encouraged, free concerts in the quad, Campus Safety was awesome and gave rides home to drunk people and in general it was pretty awesome.
edit on 15-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by Cabin
 
Speaking as the husband of a teacher I think that the school systems in the UK and USA are doing a fine job.


I would disagree entirely.

I don't have the statistics to hand, but I have seen evidence that those who are home schooled have a higher IQ, are more confident, and are more successful as a result.

The education "system" is fundamentally flawed in that it treats every child the same, whatever their level of skill or comprehension, it also fails in its most important job; to create the DESIRE to learn.

You can bark information at a child all you like, but if they are not inclined to improve themselves or actually learn more about the world through a natural curiosity your efforts are almost completely wasted.

I don't mean this as an attack on educators - I wouldn't have the patience or the bravery to do the job they do - but the system they work in is fundamentally broken and is letting millions of kids down every year.

As for the OP, no I don't think it's "too liberal". We generally live in liberal societies, and unless you want to create a generation of people who cannot function well in that liberal society you cannot make it more conservative.

If people do not like what the state system is teaching their kids, take them out of the system and educate them yourselves. But be aware that when you do you are directly affecting and shaping their ability to function successfully in our world and societies.
edit on 15-6-2013 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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It's just propaganda.

IMO it's coming from 2 different (but connected) angles though:


1. There is a rising tide of anti-intellectualism growing in direct correlation with the polarization of the extreme far right.

As the world naturally progresses forward into an increasingly complex, technological epoch, it is leaving the hardcore bible thumping crowd further and further behind. There is a lot of anxiety over this, as they feel their beliefs are being left out in the cold. But the fact is progress frankly doesn't care about any of that. Fields that require advanced education like science and medicine are concerned with observable and repeatable facts - not finding a place for God or what not.

So with that you have this growing fear, resentment and backlash. Some bible-belt states in the U.S. for example are still trying to legislate that creationism should be taught in schools alongside evolution, because in their eyes they are both equally valid "theories".

And because most rational people would find such a notion absurd - the hardcore conservatives have placed themselves as some sort of underdog in all this, victimized by the arrogance of what they deem to be smug liberals looking down on them from their ivory towers or whatever. This mentality is seeded in the most extremist roots, but I think it ends up forming stereotypes that seep into the minds of more moderate conservatives as well - those who simply fear and mistrust things they don't fully understand, and thus end up resenting others who claim they do (see the debate over the global warming "consensus" for a great example).


2. The other half I believe is much more calculated and conspiracy related:

The most rich and powerful conservatives understand the system that has made them rich and powerful. They understand that it is built off a completely passive and docile public who feed an unregulated free-market system without conscience, even though it is economically unsustainable, environmentally catastrophic, and morally bankrupt.

They also understand that when people go to school, they often start to realize that and question the status quo. The plutocrats and oligarchs obviously don't want this happening - so they've deliberately engineered a massive backlash against it. You can see it in the way they tried to paint the Occupy movement as a bunch of free-loading Liberal Arts majors who don't know what they're talking about. Their biggest fear I believe is this sort of conscientious and liberal free thinking catching on with too many of the other worker bees.

So they rally the other half of the hive against it. But when you put the pieces together - it's a combination of natural + manipulated fear and resentment in a changing world. It's coming from one end of the political spectrum and thus being directed at the other. When both angles above add up you get a potent concoction of engineered ignorance that looks like this:

Rick Santorum: Left uses college for "indoctrination"


...
But like I said, it's just propaganda. It's part of this whole bigger boogie man idea leading conservatives have come up with to keep people dumb, docile and obedient - while hypocritically explaining away anything that challenges their core beliefs as part of some "Liberal agenda" to oppress their freedoms or whatever...

It's crazy to think they've taken the rhetoric so far now that even education and critical thinking are part of this big Orwellian plot of "the Left"
but yeah - here we are.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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When you say liberal I tend to think it maybe more or less the nature of any education to try and make it seem so complicated and with so many opinions to choose from that you throw your arms up in despair. Politically it should be liberal cause that maybe whom wants it the most, those with left leaning politics defend it the most, even as it fails to give people the ability and responsibility to be critically thinking adults. When people say that children that are in school are more "socialized" I really have a laugh, if they had actually studied sociology they would know that a person can learn social abilities from anyone, confining it to age based or gender or race based learning seems to me the error of public schooling. When you separate people by age you give more importance to the number of age or grade than you do to the person themselves, you are more than a number or a rating by some third party. Just as you are not just your skin color or gender alone. Most of history maybe a great fiction, if you have lived long enough to see lie after lie fall apart in your own brief time, how can anyone honestly think they know the truth about a age they never lived in? It depends on your reference and your trust of it. Two great books that can crack a closed mind wide open are "The Social Construction of Reality" and "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions", both of these books as well as anything by Ivan Illich pretty much explain how powerless most people become as a result of old thinking and gravity staying at rest. People tend to look outside themselves for answers to their lives and they tend to seek praise from a world that maybe setup to deny them worth most of the time for most people, which leads them to behaving in small ways and shutting their brains down in the hopes of trying to fit in. William Sidell was probably one of the most intelligent people in American History but the people around him more less destroyed him trying to make him be more "normal" in order to fit in with the social class order structure of his time. Schools take the Sidells of our time and pick and choose which ones are allowed to succeed on the basis of social status not merit, school was setup to keep many people from ever attaining great success that might disrupt technology and business, these people are found out and slowed down in order to keep a more static society from becoming too capable of self governance and self sufficiency. Libertarianism of the founders was what had to be put to a stop otherwise America would advance so far beyond the rest of the world that it would leave it all behind including England, they had to stop it somehow, public schooling was the solution....if it were not for the schools there would have been a nation of polymaths. And they would have realized the fallacy of class structure and socialism being the "natural" order of society.

George Carlin: education and the owners of America


The Higher Education Bubble


John Taylor Gatto - The Purpose Of Schooling


Robert Anton Wilson Free your mind.


edit on 15-6-2013 by bubbabuddha because: spelling
edit on 15-6-2013 by bubbabuddha because: added another video



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
When I was in college (during the 1st Gulf War) a professor went on a rant on how it was costing the American tax payer 1 million dollars a day to operate just one ship out of the Navy's fleet. She went on and on about the terrible things being done and all the money spent.


It's a battleship for God's sake! How much did she think it would cost? I guess it could probably be more cost-effective, but that money is going to people's paychecks and into the economy, and some of it back into taxes.
edit on 15-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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Too liberal? A definition of liberal would help the discussion.

When I was working towards my first BS I burst into near manic laughter when the teacher proclaimed that there was a mandatory donation for a certain class charity.

When I asked if she thought being forced to do/pay for something was considered charity or volunteering she looked like she had just dropped a load in her pants and couldn't even stutter an answer.

LOL - yes I would say there is too strong a leaning towards certain "liberal" ideology on many campuses.



posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Kids are not supposed to learn politics in school! That is called indoctrination.

They are supposed to teach things like reading writing and arithmetic.

They are not supposed to be suspended for wearing a N.R.A. tee shirt.

The whole D.A.R.E. program is a farce to get children to rat out their parents for doing drugs. Then there is the whole La raza program that teaches the Mexicans to hate Americans.

If you don't like public education you can home school your kids right? not so fast now they are trying to make that against the law too. Now if you home school you are considered a terrorist.

They have school children singing praises to Obama. Like he is the messiah or something.

Most schools don't even teach the constitution any more.

The liberals are indoctrinating our children and if you don't see it, it is simply because you are blind or uneducated. I suggest you get educated before you make a post like this. People are gonna eat you alive.



posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
When I was in college (during the 1st Gulf War) a professor went on a rant on how it was costing the American tax payer 1 million dollars a day to operate just one ship out of the Navy's fleet. She went on and on about the terrible things being done and all the money spent.
I raised my hand and replied that even if the ship was docked stateside, it would cost a million dollars a day just because that's how much it cost to maintain the ship, feed and pay the people on it.

She looked at me and said, "You narrow-minded son of a bitch."


Bollocks.

Give me proof, not unverifiable anecdotes.



posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 04:30 AM
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Originally posted by Diisenchanted
reply to post by Cabin
 


Kids are not supposed to learn politics in school! That is called indoctrination.

They are supposed to teach things like reading writing and arithmetic.

They are not supposed to be suspended for wearing a N.R.A. tee shirt.

The whole D.A.R.E. program is a farce to get children to rat out their parents for doing drugs. Then there is the whole La raza program that teaches the Mexicans to hate Americans.

If you don't like public education you can home school your kids right? not so fast now they are trying to make that against the law too. Now if you home school you are considered a terrorist.

They have school children singing praises to Obama. Like he is the messiah or something.

Most schools don't even teach the constitution any more.

The liberals are indoctrinating our children and if you don't see it, it is simply because you are blind or uneducated. I suggest you get educated before you make a post like this. People are gonna eat you alive.


Do you have cites for any of these remarkable - and in the case of 'singing praise to Obama' ridiculous - claims? Or did you hear them all from a friend of a friend of a friend?



posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Every thing I wrote was absolute fact. If you had any sense you could have googled it. But no you had to be ignorant and condescending . Here is your link.

link
edit on 16-6-2013 by Diisenchanted because: misspelled



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Diisenchanted
Kids are not supposed to learn politics in school! That is called indoctrination.


Politics should be learnt at school. History can not be understood without understanding different political systems first.

Everything depends how different political sides are portrayed. That must be equal, so the future adult can choose, although all these should be taken a look at.

Same goes with religion. Other major religions should get as much attention as Christianity does.

Also politics helps to understand the society much better, how different nations work.



They are supposed to teach things like reading writing and arithmetic.

Schools are supposed to develop thinking progress and understanding of the world. There is noticable difference in the thinking process and vocabulary of non-highschool graduates and university graduates in most cases. Often you can say the education of a person simply by listening to what the say...

One may not ever need advanced math in their work place, yet studies have shown that people who have learnt higher mathemathics do far better at LSAT tests than students who havent. The thinking process, the logical reasoning etc - math is not only numbers and calculating, learning it develops the mental processes a lot.

Arithmetic and writing are so basic skills that kids should understand these before entering school... (at least reading, arithmethics also with tens, not over hundred). Most better schools round here require these before entering the first grade.


They are not supposed to be suspended for wearing a N.R.A. tee shirt.

I do not agree with the suspension although wearing t-shirts which promote weapons, war, crime, anything violent and other similar things are not a place for schools... Notice should have been enough, not more.


The whole D.A.R.E. program is a farce to get children to rat out their parents for doing drugs. Then there is the whole La raza program that teaches the Mexicans to hate Americans.


It is hard to take a stand on DARE program. Promoting zero-tolerance for drugs among kids is not bad. ALso no kid should live in an environment of drug abuse or violence... Even if they rat out the parents for doing illegal drugs, the parents are not good examples doing the drugs in the first place... I personally support such thing, although parents should be helped to get over not punished for doing drugs.

I can not say much about La Raza as I do not know much about it.



If you don't like public education you can home school your kids right? not so fast now they are trying to make that against the law too. Now if you home school you are considered a terrorist.

Personally I do not support homeschooling. It is hard to take a stand as I am not from US, although have lived there a bit and am familiar with the public school system. Round here, it would require too much money to teach kids at home. No official home schooling programs and the schools are very strong. It would take a lot of money to find several people with strong skills in several fields as know basics about a field is not enough in better schools. Even private schools are not able to compete with better public schools round here, so these are not popular at all. Maybe 1 or 2 exist in this nation, although these are not worth it moneywise as the education is not better.



The liberals are indoctrinating our children and if you don't see it, it is simply because you are blind or uneducated. I suggest you get educated before you make a post like this. People are gonna eat you alive.


I doubt my education is worse than yours - Masters Degree in Engineering and currently doing 2 more Bachelors in Economics and Psychology.

No one has tried to eat me alive in this thread, but you...

I am not blind either, although I truly do not see anything that can be considered "liberal" in schools and it is not because I am blind... Schools are far more than teaching kids read and write. These are supposed to give better picture of the world, understanding how the world works, whether environmentally, physically, chemically or as a society. Arithmethic and reading are just basic skills required to learn other things.

Taking a look at also the liberal side is not indoctration, but there is a need to take look at both sides, not just one. US history is taught thoroughly, constitution is taken a look at also, at least in the school where I was at.

No person should be taught to be not tolerant towards others, whatever their beliefs, religion or orientation. Otherwise we would have so many more idiots out there who beat up or shoot somebody simply because he/she is "different". We can not change the world, which is globalising fast. Different cultures have existed in US for decades and most of them are there legally. so American Chinese who has lived there for 50 years is just as much American as any other American... technically speaking most Americans themselves are descendants of European settlers. Only the Native Americans are locals, yet they are the ones treated as foreigners... I personally do not care where somebody is from and that should also be taught at schools to not judge people by their race, religion, orientation or whatever other thing that is different from one.
edit on 17-6-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by beezzer
When I was in college (during the 1st Gulf War) a professor went on a rant on how it was costing the American tax payer 1 million dollars a day to operate just one ship out of the Navy's fleet. She went on and on about the terrible things being done and all the money spent.
I raised my hand and replied that even if the ship was docked stateside, it would cost a million dollars a day just because that's how much it cost to maintain the ship, feed and pay the people on it.

She looked at me and said, "You narrow-minded son of a bitch."


Bollocks.

Give me proof, not unverifiable anecdotes.


No. Deal with it.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:00 AM
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And here's something for those who still think that homeschooling is so great.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Gasp! A pop star worth millions can't read? Well, that settles it, one example proves your point. Public schools are terrible and getting worse. They treat each student the same, no matter their intelligence. No student is singled out as special, because it may hurt someone's feelings. Can you imagine that? You study hard, get good grades, yet you are stuck in the same classes with the ones who can't do the work and need constant help. I have a 15 year old son who zips through math like it's nothing, they have already recommended he look into nuclear physics, among others, as a career. He has to stay in the same class as the others, because "they aren't that advanced". But, please, everyone pity the star.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by DAVID64
 


I didn't say that it proved my point. However, it is something to bear in mind.



posted on Jun, 23 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


If you prefer indoctrination and assimilation over education...
You could always go to a religious school.





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