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Master Mason (PHA)

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posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Level_Head
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


This part of the wiki link "he was initiated and passed in the Lodge Le Progress de l'Oceanie No. 124 (under AASR jurisdiction, later No. 371 under Calif" because of the Structure of Freemasonry. AASR jurisdiction only govern the Scottish Rite (degrees4-32) and not degrees 1-3. So in essence, there should be a Grand Lodge name there and not AASR.
Not entirely true. Historically, there WERE Scottish Rite degrees 1-3, and, in fact, they're still conferred in New Orleans.


Thanks for the info. I know there are Scottish Rite craft Lodges but I thought they were still governed by a Grand Lodge. But I guess I was just looking at it with eyes of today. I do remember a brother informing me that Supreme councils once held authority over craft degrees. I havnt seen those degrees conferred yet...but Im working on it




posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


1. Like the heretical nonsense that it became many of the so called deep secrets were made up, invented.
2. It was religious (Nutbag - do you mean scrotum or scientology squirrels cheek pouches) guy's whom founded your Ceremony's and those that were imported from the Rosicrucian's.
3. The American Lodge's though they do have impeccable pedigree that I will not challenge were not recognised by the elder lodge's for a long time except as branches of themselves.
4. We (you and Us) are merely the continuation of a mixture of Alchemical Philosophers and Religious Nutbags whom sought the grand unified field theory (the philosophers stone - the key of Alamut call it what you will the final table of Hermes or the Ketar of Jehovah) and we have been supplanted in that misguided quest (trying to steal the throne of god) by the scientific researchers of today whom the age of Reason Ushered rather forcefully in leaving the esoteric sects to continue there babbling and with no more true substance than tradition and ceremony,.

At many time's in the past notably here in Britain there have been Good lodges whom dedicated there spare time to performing charitable act's, opening school's, hospital's and generally upholding there nation as patriot's but though I have no doubt such members still exist they are not so altruistic anymore so something has happened to decay the fabric of both the lodge and the chapter and as I stated earlier the same type of members that once did these altruistic things now do so through the likes of the Rotary club which is an excellent and worthy successor for the current time.

When we no longer serve our original purpose the only path left open leads to a different purpose and in so acting we corrupt the very fabric of what was once admirable.

I never sought to claim to be better than you and have had to turn down invitation on three occasions as I am already committed but the point in question is that we are older than you despite claims to the contrary, now it is possible that forerunners of the lodge can indeed trace there root's to the cathedral builder's (religious nut bags) of medieval Europe but not before that and we therefore 'may' be of a lot older than you.

Older does not mean better, it is the quality and incorruptibility of good members that can save a lodge or chapter and the corruption of others that can damn it and on these grounds I stand.

I follow a different path to yourself and you can add me to the religious nut bags whom have so eminently shown there pedigree as I choose to try to serve the Cornerstone the builder (Mason) rejected (and why do you think an item is always offered under the corner stone (Religious nut bag's) and I would point out that many mason's of higher degree than yourself are also religious nut bag's as not all lodges adhere to the lie that Jesus did not die on the cross (it is only found in some corrupted lodge's that are influenced by Islam) and I do not know of your particular tradition's but the other problem I have is that a criminal act by a brother should be in breech of his Oath (As we swear to Jehovah) but it is not and too often over time the local grand dragon has saved a crooked leach or a corrupt police officer and that put's a wall firmly between us as though I may lay down my life for my brother I will not betray the God of my oath for such if it is in my power.

Certain Degrees have fallen into terrible darkness of the mind and soul seeking only to know themselves and feeding there own bloated self esteem, seek rather to know your brother and help him for if all do this how can the house fall even if a great wing blow's.

The gobbledygook that has been created as a code will gain nothing and though it is not of our Christian heritage and teaching I would suggest Zen as a far better technique to self control, take the garden with its gravel carefully swept to represent the sea or the cosmos and the stone's that represent the island's or the world, take the mediation positions set around the garden and see each makes it harder to see all the stones, one meditates at the first place until one can see all the stones though one is out of sight, the next two are out of sight to the last were all are out of sight.
A master can see what is not seen, even himself.
A grand master can be in two place's at once or more for he can see himself there.
I will let you think on that.
edit on 17-6-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 




There's isn't Protestant Masonry and Catholic Masonry.


to a devout catholic at the time when the split occurred (which is the time frame that labtech is referring to), the difference between a non-christian form of masonry and a christian form of masonry, would've been just that, i.e. catholic vs. protestant. the european people didn't stop believing in jesus at the time, they just stopped believing in the pope. the amount of atheism as suggested by the enlightenment, was not the mainstream, just the vocal minority, who were former catholic priests gone rogue. so it could be this is why there was such a schism in the world of masonry -- a religious war of sorts between schools of christianity and would also account for an increase in the amount of people wanting to gain esoteric knowledge, as they would've been suspicious that the holy roman church had withheld even more information from them.

yeah, i can easily see the things he's referring to, being related at one time, to the rivalry that formed when the bible was printed in english and distributed for the first time in history. can you imagine.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 

I missed a chance a few years to see one of those conferrals, but I visited one of the Scottish Rite Lodges and that was pretty cool.

reply to post by LABTECH767
 

Your origin theory is just at theory, but I was referring earlier to the "infiltration" and "corruption". Particularly in America, the rituals we have today come from the work of William Preston and Thomas Smith-Webb.

I know the history of American Lodges and how the Grand Lodges here developed as well as the appendant bodies.


I never sought to claim to be better than you and have had to turn down invitation on three occasions as I am already committed but the point in question is that we are older than you despite claims to the contrary, now it is possible that forerunners of the lodge can indeed trace there root's to the cathedral builder's (religious nut bags) of medieval Europe but not before that and we therefore 'may' be of a lot older than you.

We don't invite people to join, but you can't claim older heritage. History is a foggy mistress.

Freemasonry is older than just the 1717 foundation of the Grand Lodge. There are many older Lodges and manuscripts that date us back to the 10th century.


I follow a different path to yourself and you can add me to the religious nut bags whom have so eminently shown there pedigree as I choose to try to serve the Cornerstone the builder (Mason) rejected (and why do you think an item is always offered under the corner stone (Religious nut bag's)...

If you truly understood Freemasonry and it's rituals like the Mark Master degree, you'd realize how laughable your claim that Masons are those who rejected Christ in the Bible.


....I would point out that many mason's of higher degree than yourself are also religious nut bag's as not all lodges adhere to the lie that Jesus did not die on the cross...

You don't know what degree I am or what bodies of Masonry I belong to.


...the other problem I have is that a criminal act by a brother should be in breech of his Oath (As we swear to Jehovah) but it is not and too often over time the local grand dragon has saved a crooked leach or a corrupt police officer and that put's a wall firmly between us as though I may lay down my life for my brother I will not betray the God of my oath for such if it is in my power.

Well, first off, we don't hide crimes and the witch-hunts in Britain didn't show any wrongdoing on the part of the Masons. Also, we don't have "grand dragon's" in Freemasonry, we're not the KKK.



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Level_Head
 


i have heard that freemasonry was a way of keeping paganism safe during the burning times and that
different branches of freemasonry focus on different cultures such as Egyptian freemasonry or some of the later European branches that at the top have a priesthood of Odin
edit on 17-6-2013 by truthontheloose because: wrong word



posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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this may have had some impact on it



part 2
www.youtube.com...

part 3
www.youtube.com...

part 4
www.youtube.com...

part 5
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by truthontheloose
 

You heard wrong.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Level_Head
 


one more time incase you didn't see it...


I have a serious question actually. I have been reading "The Sirius Mystery" by Robert Temple, and in it he interviews a few master Masons and asks them about what Freemasonry has to do with the Sirius Star System. They refused to discuss much further with Dr. Temple until he became a 3rd degree mason himself, he did so and they continued the interviews.

Some very interesting things were said, like that high up Masons know that in reality, they view either the star Sirius A or B itself, or an orbiting planet, as the Great White Lodge. They believe that all Masons convene at this location after death and it is the home of our species. This is hinted at with Aleister Crowley's fraternal order of the A:A, which stands for Argentum Astrum, which of course is Latin for "Silver Star". Crowley's order was directly derived from the Fraternal Order of the Golden Dawn, which also has its deep rooted connections to Freemasonry as you can read about here.

Also I have procured an interesting book from my dead great grandfather's collection after he passed, called "Light From the Sanctuary of the Royal Arch". It was written by Charles Albert Snodgrass (pseudonym?) who claimed to be a 33rd degree Mason, and left Masonry for the Royal Arch order afterwards, because, as it seems, you have a choice of becoming a Master Mason or leaving Masonry altogether for the higher order of the Royal Arch.

The first chapter in the Royal Arch book is titled "Ancient Mysteries". And the first secrets it divulges are that of the pyramids. Not how they were built, per se, but in what they exhibit mathematically in their architecture. Such as the fact that the exact height of the Great Pyramid of Ghiza, is exactly 1/1,000,000th the average distance from the Earth to the Sun, or more specifically either the closest or farthest distance in which the Earth is from the sun, because it fluctuates. It's one of the vertices, I'm not sure. Also, the exact mass of the Great Pyramid is exactly 1/1,000,000,000th the mass of the entire Earth. There are several, several other advanced concept exhibited within the Pyramids themselves that could not have been possibly measured by the Egyptians. These are also expounded upon significantly in "The Sirius Mystery" by Robert Temple.

I guess my question to you would be, have you, or can you even discuss matters such as this with a non-Mason, and if you can, would you be willing to further divulge any information on the matter? If you want, you can message me privately and I won't divulge anything to others, I never post on this site, I just like to read and comment. Thank you.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Kody27
 

The Dog Star has nothing to do with Freemasonry.


Some very interesting things were said, like that high up Masons know that in reality, they view either the star Sirius A or B itself, or an orbiting planet, as the Great White Lodge. They believe that all Masons convene at this location after death and it is the home of our species.




This is hinted at with Aleister Crowley's fraternal order of the A:A, which stands for Argentum Astrum, which of course is Latin for "Silver Star".

Crowley by all purposes was not a Mason. I could not have sat in Lodge with him and the times he tried to enter a recognized Lodge he was denied entry.


Also I have procured an interesting book from my dead great grandfather's collection after he passed, called "Light From the Sanctuary of the Royal Arch". It was written by Charles Albert Snodgrass (pseudonym?) who claimed to be a 33rd degree Mason, and left Masonry for the Royal Arch order afterwards, because, as it seems, you have a choice of becoming a Master Mason or leaving Masonry altogether for the higher order of the Royal Arch.

The Royal Arch is a part of Masonry, you wouldn't leave Masonry to go there.


Such as the fact that the exact height of the Great Pyramid of Ghiza, is exactly 1/1,000,000th the average distance from the Earth to the Sun, or more specifically either the closest or farthest distance in which the Earth is from the sun, because it fluctuates.

The Earth’s average distance from the Sun, which astronomers call the semimajor axis, is 92.96-million miles. Being 1/1,000,000th would make the pyramid 92.96 miles tall. The pyramid is only 455-feet tall which 8.61% of a single mile. If you do the math 455-feet is 0.00000009% of 92.96 million miles (or 490,800,000,000-feet) which is nowhere near 1/1,000,000th scale. EDIT: 1/1,000,000th looks like 0.000001 or 0.0001%.

I'm not doing anymore math right now.
edit on 18-6-2013 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 



Huh? Of course the authenticity is the issue. The hoax letters were written long after the events 'predicted' in them took place, obviously they will detail events exactly as they happened. All this amounts to is confirmation bias.

what are you talking about? we're using the existing hoax letters -content- as the premise for an argument, we are saying "the thing is yet to happen" (the whole "third world war" thing you're taking issue with) ..the "letters" content is supposedly about a huge global conspiracy, yes, they were penned at a stage when the supposed conspiracy was almost complete, the letters however also make reference to plans that would unfold in the late stages of the program and when i read them i was impressed with their clarity and highly accurate "predictions"

this is what Carr is referring to when he says "they must, they must (etc)" ..but he seems to believe the letters are genuine.. probably because they actually were once catalogued in the british museum (where are they now? just produce them someone? the problem is the link to Pike that would "confirm" everything, but it matters not who writes the recipe, the proof is in the eating)

i read the swath of material at the link you provided because i had not seen the actual "letters" themselves, the debunker at the link traces the earliest source of the writings to an obscure french publication, i was satisfied to read that old translated french material and be able to transcribe it against history since then... in the same way i'd be impressed to transcribe a fairy tale against history, know what i mean? it doesn't matter if smurfs wrote it.. what matters is the content. does that make sense?

logically, the next part of this argument is the exact same thing that was raised by another member earlier "why can't the lodge do more to help" (since an apparent "game-plan" was clearly visible in the works of Taxil, or whoever wrote them, it is natural to assume why an organization such as the masons didn't at least "see all this coming") ..but i told you already, to us muggles the lodge is like Hogwarts, and we know there are various groups within the lodge who know more than others about the whole "he who's name we do not speak" agenda alluded to in the "letters" ...does that make sense? i use these terms so everyone can understand.

i already posted why the "help" cannot come from "masonry" as such.. but those who bring the false light will know all about how to wield it.


Such as?

..you're asking about freaky stuff that goes on at Hogwarts?
(within the lodge)
well, the thing here is, no matter what i bring up, you can instantly distance yourself from it (this de-centralization structure you mention, but i will get to that) so i'd begin this part of the discussion by reminding us of a 'Captain William Morgan' (and again, i suspect the various layers of myth here will be used to discredit the accusation, including the underlying "moral" objection, but i'm happy to discuss it all over again if only for other curious people to learn more) i would also ask you to consider how the claim "making good men better" is relevant here.


It is more accurately described as decentralized with no overarching governing body.

this is only true that you (and myself) already point out, noone is "heading" masonry (officially) apart from the governing body in the UK

now, please consider, who laid down all the tenements, where were they "borrowed" from, and so on.. we are talking about an already established system... but of what? that is the whole point.. that is why masonry is a school..

the person who *knows* what the school is really teaching is different to the person who likes to drink beer and gladhand his friends


The Tyler is stationed outside of the lodge room only when the Lodge is at Labor. We frequently have guests and visitors for dinner downstairs in the dinning area.

this is making what was first said out of context now... we were talking about a family at dinner, about to eat, and the door knocks... THIS KIND of interruption.. not a family who stations a Tyler outside while they "eat their dinner" (it is telling why you refer to all this as "labor") ..anyone who knocks at the door while that family is eating is just asking for trouble, right?



I prefer to give anonymously. No one needs to know that I may have contributed to them.

what's that saying? teach a man to fish
and apparently you all know how to fish, right?

in social work and psychology, there is a point where they stress the importance of the work to you - we do not ever want the person we are helping to NEED us, and we never want to NEED them to need us..

does this make sense?



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 



The first Grand Lodge was formed in 1717, but there are Lodge records that go back much farther.
Hogwarts really? LOL

so you agree? (about the "craft" i refer to) ..but you don't understand why i call the lodge "Hogwarts" so other muggles can know what we're all talking about?



Yeah, the system is a bit more complex than that. Particularly when you step into the appendant orders.

i try to address this (previous post).. it's funny how you ask the same questions, hold the same issues, etc.. there is something similar about you both that draws you both to masonry.. it has to do with how we on the outside refer to it as "sitting down to dinner" while you on the inside refer to it as "labor" (..yes.. very telling indeed)

so i will try to say more on this.. you know when you were like 4 or 5 y.o and you started going to school, and slowly as you progressed through that school, you caught-on that it was more than just maths, english, science, history, art, music, etc... they're trying to teach you a FRAMEWORK to operate within... now the lodge is another school again, for the development of the soul, and there is a whole other FRAMEWORK they will introduce you to in here too, but unlike "school", they don't even tell you what they've got to offer here.. you have to climb that ladder yourself because that's kinda what the curriculum deals with in the first place.. soul development..

it is little wonder the question i asked before was never addressed; if such an emphasis on personal gnosis, why the requirement of the belief in the deity.. nor was the cartoon watched, well maybe it was, but there were no comments.. that's why i was careful to ask back then "any thoughts you're willing to share" ..because i know anyone who already is raised is going to have their mind blown by that cartoon..

but i digress..


We have people, non-Masons, come to our dinners all of the time. The dinners are not tyled functions. Also, Freemasonry does good deeds in the light of day all the time.

again, you (freemason) take it out of context... you may well "hold dinners", just like you raise money for all those burnt children, but none of us know what you all talk about at that dinner table, right? this is what we are saying, when you "sit down to eat dinner" with one another, as a family, personally, this is the thing you object to.. when any "normal" family will just complain, laugh and answer the door to see who is there to see them...

and those "good deeds", you will never do them to the extent that it drains you completely and continue to do them because it is the right thing to do.. you only give what you are able.. read what i typed to Augustus about "giving" and the spirit in which it is done

it is only now i expect a more serious response from any of you since you can see now i am taking the matter "seriously" ...but even then, i am only speaking of "morals" and normalcy.. and what do they matter, right?

i know you will have some way to subvert all this simple logic


i've been slowly adding info into a topic here at ats called "polarity encoding", you two should swing by one day?
edit on 18-6-2013 by UNIT76 because: freely have i received and freely will i give



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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/popcorn

this is a fascinating conversation.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Kody27
reply to post by Level_Head
 


one more time incase you didn't see it...


I have a serious question actually. I have been reading "The Sirius Mystery" by Robert Temple, and in it he interviews a few master Masons and asks them about what Freemasonry has to do with the Sirius Star System. They refused to discuss much further with Dr. Temple until he became a 3rd degree mason himself, he did so and they continued the interviews.

Some very interesting things were said, like that high up Masons know that in reality, they view either the star Sirius A or B itself, or an orbiting planet, as the Great White Lodge. They believe that all Masons convene at this location after death and it is the home of our species. This is hinted at with Aleister Crowley's fraternal order of the A:A, which stands for Argentum Astrum, which of course is Latin for "Silver Star". Crowley's order was directly derived from the Fraternal Order of the Golden Dawn, which also has its deep rooted connections to Freemasonry as you can read about here.

Quite honestly, that sound like a bunch of BS to me. Never heard of any of that in my 5 years as a Master Mason.

Also I have procured an interesting book from my dead great grandfather's collection after he passed, called "Light From the Sanctuary of the Royal Arch". It was written by Charles Albert Snodgrass (pseudonym?) who claimed to be a 33rd degree Mason, and left Masonry for the Royal Arch order afterwards, because, as it seems, you have a choice of becoming a Master Mason or leaving Masonry altogether for the higher order of the Royal Arch.

This doesnt even make sense. You cant leave Freemasonry and join the Royal Arch because the Royal Arch is Freemasonry. In order to be a member of the Royal Arch you must first be a Master Mason and remain a Master Mason in good standing. If you leave Freemasonry you leave the Royal Arch as well

The first chapter in the Royal Arch book is titled "Ancient Mysteries". And the first secrets it divulges are that of the pyramids. Not how they were built, per se, but in what they exhibit mathematically in their architecture. Such as the fact that the exact height of the Great Pyramid of Ghiza, is exactly 1/1,000,000th the average distance from the Earth to the Sun, or more specifically either the closest or farthest distance in which the Earth is from the sun, because it fluctuates. It's one of the vertices, I'm not sure. Also, the exact mass of the Great Pyramid is exactly 1/1,000,000,000th the mass of the entire Earth. There are several, several other advanced concept exhibited within the Pyramids themselves that could not have been possibly measured by the Egyptians. These are also expounded upon significantly in "The Sirius Mystery" by Robert Temple.

all very interesting but none of it has anything to do with Freemasonry

I guess my question to you would be, have you, or can you even discuss matters such as this with a non-Mason, and if you can, would you be willing to further divulge any information on the matter? If you want, you can message me privately and I won't divulge anything to others, I never post on this site, I just like to read and comment. Thank you.

I can discuss whatever i choose about freemasonry. The only things I will not discuss are the signs, grips, words, and other ways I know a Master Mason to be such.





edit on 18-6-2013 by Level_Head because: incorrect quoting



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by UNIT76
 


There is no way I can take a hoax letter seriously. It is a hoax, nothing in it can be taken seriously and all of it is a blatant lie. There is no way around that. so with that being said I will let you and AugustusMasonicus continue your conversation.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by UNIT76
 

The fact is that Pike never wrote anything about the "third world war". It's a known hoax.

Carr fabricated a great deal in regards to Freemasonry and all he says he never gives sources.


..but i told you already, to us muggles the lodge is like Hogwarts, and we know there are various groups within the lodge who know more than others about the whole "he who's name we do not speak" agenda alluded to in the "letters"

How would you "know" if you're not a member? You clearly do not know how the Lodge works and operates.


...so i'd begin this part of the discussion by reminding us of a 'Captain William Morgan'...

This "captain" was a drunk and there is no evidence that he was ever in the military. He was a con man, but regardless his "tell all book" was not something new. By his time there were already several books out there on the same subject he was to write about so there was no precedence for Masons to react negatively against him.


this is only true that you (and myself) already point out, noone is "heading" masonry (officially) apart from the governing body in the UK

The UGLE does not govern all of Freemasonry. They govern just the British jurisdiction. They have no authority over other Grand Lodges.


..anyone who knocks at the door while that family is eating is just asking for trouble, right?

I don't know where you get all of this. We don't get upset if non-members come to our dinners or come up while we are eating.

reply to post by UNIT76
 

I get the analogy, but its not quite an accurate comparison.


it has to do with how we on the outside refer to it as "sitting down to dinner" while you on the inside refer to it as "labor" (..yes.. very telling indeed)

Actually we're not at Labor when we're at dinner. You are mistaken here.

We do say Freemasonry is a progressive science taught by degrees only.


why the requirement of the belief in the deity..

Because one's obligations are to their Deity and if you don't believe in a higher power then no obligations would be considered binding.


...just like you raise money for all those burnt children...

The Shrine hospitals are just one of the various Masonic charities.


...but none of us know what you all talk about at that dinner table, right?

And it's not really any of your business, but usually its just BSing and talking about the latest happenings.


when any "normal" family will just complain, laugh and answer the door to see who is there to see them...

Like I've said to you now multiple times, we don't object to non-members coming up while in dinner. Some will not stop eating and doing what they are doing, but there is usually a host of people who would come talk to someone...and in regards to most Lodges I've been to, they'd be invited to eat if we still had food left.


and those "good deeds", you will never do them to the extent that it drains you completely and continue to do them because it is the right thing to do..

So you're damning us for staying financially sound and ensuring our charitable activities can survive for future use? You're damning us for responsible planning? LOL


you only give what you are able..

Wouldn't this be obvious.


i know you will have some way to subvert all this simple logic

I'm not subverting logic, but embracing it.

reply to post by undo
 

Quit hogging it all!



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by UNIT76
...the letters however also make reference to plans that would unfold in the late stages of the program and when i read them i was impressed with their clarity and highly accurate "predictions"


Again, the only 'predictions' that have come to pass are those that took place prior to them being written. All this amounts to is major confirmation bias. To predict that there would be a war in the Middle East between Jews and Arabs does not take a brain surgeon. It had already happened prior to Carr publishing his error laden work in the 1950's.


this is what Carr is referring to when he says "they must, they must (etc)" ..but he seems to believe the letters are genuine.. probably because they actually were once catalogued in the british museum (where are they now? just produce them someone? the problem is the link to Pike that would "confirm" everything, but it matters not who writes the recipe, the proof is in the eating)


The problem is that they do not and never existed as detailed extensively by Terry Melanson who it should be known is not a fan of Masonry.


i read the swath of material at the link you provided because i had not seen the actual "letters" themselves, the debunker at the link traces the earliest source of the writings to an obscure french publication, i was satisfied to read that old translated french material and be able to transcribe it against history since then... in the same way i'd be impressed to transcribe a fairy tale against history, know what i mean? it doesn't matter if smurfs wrote it.. what matters is the content. does that make sense?


No. A hoax is a hoax reagardless of who wrote it. The origins of the hoax have been exposed by Terry and it basically boils down to a conspiratard version of telephone where each subsequent retelling gets further embellished and distorted.


logically, the next part of this argument is the exact same thing that was raised by another member earlier "why can't the lodge do more to help" (since an apparent "game-plan" was clearly visible in the works of Taxil, or whoever wrote them, it is natural to assume why an organization such as the masons didn't at least "see all this coming") ..but i told you already, to us muggles the lodge is like Hogwarts, and we know there are various groups within the lodge who know more than others about the whole "he who's name we do not speak" agenda alluded to in the "letters" ...does that make sense? i use these terms so everyone can understand.


No, it makes absolutely no sense. Why would anyone care to refute or counter a hoax? Particularly one so transparent as Taxil and Carr's?


well, the thing here is, no matter what i bring up, you can instantly distance yourself from it (this de-centralization structure you mention, but i will get to that) so i'd begin this part of the discussion by reminding us of a 'Captain William Morgan' (and again, i suspect the various layers of myth here will be used to discredit the accusation, including the underlying "moral" objection, but i'm happy to discuss it all over again if only for other curious people to learn more) i would also ask you to consider how the claim "making good men better" is relevant here.


There is nothing but circumstantial evidence pointing to anything happening to Morgan. Additionally, the 'secrets' of Masonry had already been in publication for nearly 100 years prior to him threatening to publish his 'expose'. Is this poor example your only offering as to all the 'freaky' things happening in lodge? Lame.


now, please consider, who laid down all the tenements, where were they "borrowed" from, and so on.. we are talking about an already established system... but of what? that is the whole point.. that is why masonry is a school..


Did you mean 'tenets'? If so, Masonry does not hold claim to inventing Brotherly Love, Faith, Hope, Charity and Truth. These are universal tenets.


this is making what was first said out of context now... we were talking about a family at dinner, about to eat, and the door knocks... THIS KIND of interruption.. not a family who stations a Tyler outside while they "eat their dinner" (it is telling why you refer to all this as "labor") ..anyone who knocks at the door while that family is eating is just asking for trouble, right?


What? Are you being purposefully obtuse? 'Labor' refers to when there is a meeting in progress inside the lodge room, there is no food or drink permitted in there when the lodge is at Labor. The Tyler is only at his post when the lodge is at Labor. When we eat, with or without guests, it is downstairs and the Tyler sits among the Brethren and guests.


what's that saying? teach a man to fish
and apparently you all know how to fish, right?


Not all members of the lodge are capable of making monetary donations. We can however join in other endeavors that involve us participating in charitable actions that do not revolve around giving financial assistance.


in social work and psychology, there is a point where they stress the importance of the work to you - we do not ever want the person we are helping to NEED us, and we never want to NEED them to need us..


In a perfect world no one would need charity. I have come to find that there will always be those who, through mitigating circumstances beyond their control, will always need assistance.




edit on 18-6-2013 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


so what is your theory on what freemasonry is really about



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by truthontheloose
 

It's not a theory:


Freemasonry is an initiatic instituion, dedicated to the moral and intellectual improvement of humanity by encouraging individual growth. It has a presence in most countries and has often been defined as a “peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated with symbols.” The general form of its current practices is approximately four hundred years old.

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The process for joining a Masonc lodge is more or less the same around the world. An individual must usually have sponsorship from two existing members, submit an application, pass through an investigative process and receive a unanimous election from the lodge membership. Once initiated, Masons can advance through ranks (known as symbolic degrees) as they make intellectual and philosophical progress . A particular series of degrees is referred to as a rite. There are different rites, with varying numbers of degrees which are practiced by Masons around the world. Almost all lodges in the United States work the York Rite for the first three degrees of Freemasonry, which are called the Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

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While studying Masonic symbolism, history and organization can be interesting and exciting, the goal is to be able to translate the lessons and experiences that one gains from Masonry into one’s daily actions. Freemasonry, if approached with humility, an open heart and an open mind will make one a gentleman, a better family man, and a better citizen. It should also be understood that while Freemasonry is not a religion, it does encourage its members to be active in their own religious traditions

Freemasonry can be understood as a traditional initiatic order. It is not a secret society in any strict sense, but rather, a private society with some secrets. While it has taken its modern form during the late Renaissance and the Enlightenment, its traditions, symbols and lessons reach back to pre-modern times.

The general work associated with the initiatic tradition and the purpose of Freemasonry, put simply, is to provide an environment where good men can come together to pursue meaningful intellectual and spiritual growth. It is often said that Freemasonry “makes good men better.” One of the underlying tenets of the initiatic tradition is the belief that with each individual that becomes a better person the entire world profits thereby.

Written by Dennis V. Chornenky, PM

SOURCE

This Brother gives a great description.



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:49 AM
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ksigmason

/offers popcorn

watch out for the kernels, they get stuck between your teeth!


edit on 19-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Level_Head
 


I understand there is 33 levels of masons on earth. Does off world start with lv 34 and go upwards again. Yes im insinuating that masonry on earth is connected into a greater galactic masonry pyramid.




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