What if Jesus and Lucifer are fallen angels (Morning Stars)?

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posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


The Lamb of God is Jesus.

The Sheep are Jesus' followers.

They were all considered children of God, because God's Word (Jesus) came through the Israelites and the bloodline of David, but Jesus made it clear that the ones who would have eternal life were the Sheep who followed him.




posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
The Lamb of God is Jesus.

The Sheep are Jesus' followers.


I asked what a 'lamb' is, and you didn't answer. A lamb is basically a sheep.

It is all the same.

Not all sheep are followers of Jesus. This is why Jesus had to make a clarification saying "HIS" sheep.
edit on 14-6-2013 by arpgme because: clarification



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


When the Bible talks about "Sheep", it's talking about Jesus' followers.

There is no other reference to sheep as followers in the Bible outside of this understanding that I'm aware of, unless it's talking about literal sheep.

What it means to be the Lamb of God...


When Jesus is called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 and John 1:36, it is referring to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. In order to understand who Christ was and what He did, we must begin with the Old Testament, which contains prophecies concerning the coming of Christ as a “guilt offering” (Isaiah 53:10). In fact, the whole sacrificial system established by God in the Old Testament set the stage for the coming of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect sacrifice God would provide as atonement for the sins of His people (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 10).

The sacrifice of lambs played a very important role in the Jewish religious life and sacrificial system. When John the Baptist referred to Jesus as the “Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29), the Jews who heard him might have immediately thought of any one of several important sacrifices. With the time of the Passover feast being very near, the first thought might be the sacrifice of the Passover lamb. The Passover feast was one of the main Jewish holidays and a celebration in remembrance of God’s deliverance of the Israelites from bondage in Egypt. In fact, the slaying of the Passover lamb and the applying of the blood to doorposts of the houses (Exodus 12:11-13) is a beautiful picture of Christ’s atoning work on the cross. Those for whom He died are covered by His blood, protecting us from the angel of (spiritual) death.



Read more: www.gotquestions.org...

edit on 14-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
When the Bible talks about "Sheep", it's talking about Jesus' followers.


Jesus said "HIS" sheep to distinguish the fact that there are others.


Originally posted by Deetermined
There is no other reference to sheep as followers in the Bible outside of this understanding that I'm aware of, unless it's talking about literal sheep.


If I say "my" sheep, then in that statement alone, I'm acknowledging that there are others.



Originally posted by Deetermined
What it means to be the Lamb of God...


I didn't ask about a lamb of "God". I asked what was a Lamb.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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Jesus is not a fallen angel!

Real or metaphor! Yeshua or Jesus, same guy!

This is the way back home!

Lucifer was a real entity, though now metaphor too! And a renegade! ie think the most brutal murderer on earth.....

Love and its opposite are not the same thing. And they're not ONE.

edit on 14-6-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



Originally posted by Unity_99
Lucifer was a real entity, though now metaphor too! And a renegade! ie think the most brutal murderer on earth.....


I think the award goes to Yahweh for "the most brutal murderer". (The Flood, The Wars, The Realm of Hell, The supposed coming Apocalypse).

Those who support "God" are supporting such enslavement and violence.

The only thing I agree with is some of what Jesus said. Everything else is either a lie or supporting violence and control/imposing on anothers free-will.

"Spiritual Renegade" resonates as Truth for me. That is the way. Individuality and forming your own belief and path is the way, in my humble opinion.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I've already given you the answers. You just want to argue over semantics.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


You didn't respond. I had to repeat myself twice and both times you ignored and just started talking about "lamb of God" instead of telling me what a "lamb" is itself.

My point was a lamb is a sheep. They are one.


The reason why Jesus said "my" sheep is because there are others and so using the word 'my' was important - otherwise there would be no need to say 'my'.

I'm not arguing at all. I'm telling you that if you put it together (sheep = lamb, 'my' sheep means there's others) it means that it is all one.
edit on 14-6-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


If there are "others", how can it mean that "they are all one"?

You contradict yourself.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


There may be different kinds of sheep, but they are still sheep; so in that sense they are all one.

Duh.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


You're too busy trying to identify the sheep and you're missing the message from the shepherd.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I already understand the simple message:


1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.



Galatians 5:6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.


Jesus offered The Fruit of Life. Lucifer offered The Fruit of Knowledge.
edit on 14-6-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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From my point of view:

It was the apple containing the knowledge of good and evil, not knowledge. And that represents from my point of view the illusion of duality.



Jesus told them that they can have the fruit of life, he told them that the wisdom is now there to achieve it (love thy neighbour, etc. - all the things for peace and good and long health).


That would represent the opposite non-duality where you act as if everything is one whole.

We all are awareness (god) of different size.


Genesis 3:5
“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


That seem to be a remark to the three eyes where you ponder what is right and wrong based on non-dualistic principle where you treat other people like yourself. But the effect of eating the apple (believing in duality) seem to be ego and disconnection from god.


John 10:30-35
"I and the Father are one.” Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? [Psalm 82:6]"


That he and "the existing one" is as one as a part is one with the whole is not wrong from my point of view. Jesus is a cell in the body of god as all cells are. Unfortunately most cells have no clue what they are and hurt other cells like cancer and therefore indirectly hurt god.

Jesus is a fallen "Angel" in one sense. One of those souls who choose to fall to come back and help even when he could have been at home in the bliss. Just because you can be termed fallen do not mean you are not wanted at home. You will see by the fruits who are for harmony and justice and who are parasitic and selfish.
edit on 14-6-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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a random comment from before that really caught my attention

Intresting you throw a hebrew word (translated) into an english translation. My bible does says "God" where you transposed Elohim. It's like saying, "The child played with the 'iyshown.", "The stars shine during 'iyshown." "'Iyshown" is hebrew for "ball" or "middle of the night" and "pupil", see how the meanings change?

thanks for using that word "iyshown" in that context.. it smacked me in the head

middle of the night = darkness
pupil = eye(ball)
the eyes are the gateway to the soul

hebrew amazes me.. once heard a reference that it's probably the best qualifier for what we might consider an alien language. but i think alien as in unknown, not understood. language encodes information and the way hebrew does seems to be quite clever and intricate. it's also interesting how the words kind of stack to get expanded meanings but i suppose the same can be said of all languages..

reply to post by arpgme
 


I think the award goes to Yahweh for "the most brutal murderer". (The Flood, The Wars, The Realm of Hell, The supposed coming Apocalypse). Those who support "God" are supporting such enslavement and violence. The only thing I agree with is some of what Jesus said. Everything else is either a lie or supporting violence and control/imposing on anothers free-will. "Spiritual Renegade" resonates as Truth for me. That is the way. Individuality and forming your own belief and path is the way, in my humble opinion.

i actually think i get where you're coming from?

this is what i think, about taking onboard the whole bible.. you did indicate flood, wars, hell, apocalypse, everything so i'm assuming you're talking about the whole bible God, right?

you instantly identify the God as a murderer, and a brutal one.. did the commandment say thou shall not kill or thou shall not murder? what do you think of parts like genesis 6:4, where it's telling you humans were mingled with the sons of God? do you think these hybrid offspring are maybe connected to the evil in noah's days? hence the flood? to remove the corrupted human line. some of those brutal wars afterward to remove the remnant of the hybrid seed?

hell, is that the garbage dump? or hades? this probably sounds like the limbo place jesus minstered briefly to, maybe a place to contain those renegade fallen angels? (temporarily?) the bible says when a man dies he knows nothing and is no more.. it claims there will be a resurrection at some future time and then that man seems to live again.. according to all this there is no spirituality as such, only demonic activity. there apparently is another deeper layer to this hell (tarterus) the bottomless pit in revelation, where the anti-christ.. well, i'm rambling a bit here

you say if we support this we support (meaningless?) enslavement and violence? ..but it seems like some kind of cosmic-scale temporary quarantine has been initiated (hell seems a bit like a sterile rubbish bin...) the bottomless pit seems to be some kind of incinerator (lake of fire) i'm getting sloppy on some of this, yeah. the earth is the lab and the experiment seems to be us (humans) ..a kind of distilling or sorting/testing process?

the parable of the wheat field (matthew 13?) tells how an enemy came in and sowed tares in amongst the wheat (wheat = mankind) that enemy is guilty, the wheat that was growing isn't guilty but has to be eventually sorted from the tares (and the tares are like goats/wolves whereas the wheat are like sheep)

you said you only agree with some of what Jesus said? ..i think it's all or nothing.. if maybe you accept the involvement of these fallen angels in the story, maybe you can see why things need to be so harsh? see Ephesians 6:12 also

you say, "Everything else is either a lie or supporting violence and control/imposing on anothers free-will."
they (supposed satanists) say "do as thou will shall be the whole of the law"


"Spiritual Renegade" resonates as Truth for me. That is the way. Individuality and forming your own belief and path is the way, in my humble opinion

it's funny you use that word renegade, because that's what those original deserters are (those fallen angels) read Jude 1:6 "angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation"
i forget the word used for habitation, but one of the apostles uses the same word when describing how we strive to be clothed with that same (habitation) ..i hope this all means something to you. the bible says 'there is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads only to death', the world seems like a huge sick amusement park from what i can make out... i can understand why the bible says friendship with the world is enmity towards God.

apocalypse = revelation, unfolding, revealing, etc... this is all good stuff, not bad
edit on 14-6-2013 by UNIT76 because: text was hidden?



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


What if Jesus and Lucifer are the same soul spirit; Jesus as gross matter (a reincarnated Lucifer). Not correcting just acting upon as a human being incarnate an evolution of an ideaform, the negative and the positive cannot create new things without meeting and the polarization causes change. Why some think Lucifer was/is a demon is just ludicrist, he was the embodiment of enlightment.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Why some think Lucifer was/is a demon is just ludicrist, he was the embodiment of enlightment.


He was until he was forced to bite the dust in Isaiah 14 for leading nations astray.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by arpgme
 


The Lamb of God is Jesus.
The Sheep are Jesus' followers.
They were all considered children of God, because God's Word (Jesus) came through the Israelites and the bloodline of David, but Jesus made it clear that the ones who would have eternal life were the Sheep who followed him.


There were many Gods that spoke before Jesus. The bloodline of David came through Mary. The Jesus genome is not available. Sheep that follow generally are lead to slaughter, was he making an ironic funnism? Lamb of God indeed, his betrayal formost/formidible and unconscionable, what Father God allows this to happen, oh yes Abraham with his own son.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Why some think Lucifer was/is a demon is just ludicrist, he was the embodiment of enlightment.


He was until he was forced to bite the dust in Isaiah 14 for leading nations astray.


He was a threat that has been contained (demonized) throughout the years. Its sickening. I will make his case:
"All I did was disobey the Angel constabulatory RULES (at the Monday morning board/conference meeting), in not telling them I alone was going to give Man knowledge and insight to determine its own fate and DESTINY. It was worth it and still stand by my decision". He was determined to not see the human continued to be used as slave fodder.

edit on 14-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


So, you channel Lucifer?

Yes, man was given free will to choose between their own will or God's will, but Lucifer loses this battle in the end for using this line of thought to turn people away from God being their Savior. They will end up eating dust along with Lucifer.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


So, you channel Lucifer?

Yes, man was given free will to choose between their own will or God's will, but Lucifer loses this battle in the end for using this line of thought to turn people away from God being their Savior. They will end up eating dust along with Lucifer.


I have talked to him, Ive also spoken to Jesus, they have a case to be made, and no one listens (as if any would admit it would be laughted at). Not me, I welcome a receptive audience that does NOT neglect to LAUGH. Lucifer lost the battle because he did not TRUST GOD to be a good father and that distrust led to the whole enlightenment debacle. (oh, and that turned out well for Jesus as he actually trusted Gods words to him; look where that landed him). He had a problem with his father creater, what son doesnt, this is normal family business conducted the same way we do it (where do you think we learned the process from). Lucifer was the smarter brother. God is no ones savior, where have you gained that ideaform? Lucifers distrust in the angelic system lead him not astray from God, just questioning Gods intent/motive for creating MAN (would make a good civil rights lawyer in this day). You have to have a VAGUE belief system in God to care about this esoteric conversation. I will tell you this both are misunderstood and think this whole thing has grown to such supernatural purportion one thinks will have to come back as a flying feathered superhero to be believed the other King Kong. Its sad.
edit on 14-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




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