Teacher Fired After Being a Victim of Domestic Violence and Her Ex Husband's behavior

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Not true. Now, I am not saying that it was required that the teachers run at the gunman. Im saying that years and years and years of training teaches teachers that the wellbeing of a student ALWAYS comes before their own.

There's a world of difference between ensuring well being and tackling gunmen or facing termination because some acquaintance or even a completely anonymous lunatic threatened you.

That begs a question. If I call your place of work and threaten you by name as a teacher would you resign for the children? You dont know me. You have gauge by which to measure the severity or sincerity of the threat but you have to keep those kids safe, right?

Oh, I believe I read her ex is in jail now. Threat subsided?

Her ex-husband was subsequently sent to prison, but in April, the school fired her anyway.

Looks like they didnt fire her until he went to prison.

reply to post by AshleyD


The school has to consider the safety of it's other staff and students. They made the right call here. Can any of us honestly say we wouldn't have made the same call?

Sucks for the teacher, as not really her fault, but the safety of others trumps her employment. I understand that the guy was in jail, but for how long, and what are his chances of being out? At the same time, I suppose this is a private school, so if parents are concerned, they are going to have to listen to their customers' wishes.

reply to post by smyleegrl


That's the most compelling and convincing comparison/argument yet, IMHO.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


Skip the part where I said she should continue to be paid?

Maybe this school should have done the humane thing and given her a PAID leave of absence,

Personally, that and a good letter of recommendation probably would have kept this whole story out of the press in the first place.

I am curious, do lawful termination laws apply the same in both public and private school environments? I do not know, but it might play a factor.

reply to post by ElohimJD


Good question, that may indeed play a factor in a lawsuit. If it was a private school, chances are she would have a tougher time fighting it. The way most labor laws are, employers generally have a broad discretion to manage their work force. They don't even have to tell you why or give you a reason why they're terminating you. There are exceptions, however. Some workers enjoy some protection from unlimited employer power, such as a collective bargaining agreement through a union. It's situations like this is when unions protect the worker for wrongful termination.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

There's a world of difference between ensuring well being and tackling gunmen or facing termination because some acquaintance or even a completely anonymous lunatic threatened you.

Agree with the first part, but there is also a world of difference between an anonymous threat and one from someone who has already shown up at the school.

That begs a question. If I call your place of work and threaten you by name as a teacher would you resign for the children?

no, because there would be no clear and imminent threat. Now, if you showed up in the parking lot saying you were going to kill me, I WOULD ask for a leave of absence (not resign, I never said resign) until the issue was dealt with.

You dont know me. You have gauge by which to measure the severity or sincerity of the threat but you have to keep those kids safe, right?

Explained in the previous statement.

Oh, I believe I read her ex is in jail now. Threat subsided?

Like I already said, once the thread has subsided, the RIGHT thing to do would be to reinstate her.

Looks like they didnt fire her until he went to prison

Ive seen differing reports on this. Some say he is in jail now. Some say he went in april. i would need to know the exact details of that to give further judgement.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

But if she has a threat to her own personal safety, then those in her immediate vicinity are also unsafe, in this case, children, who have been entrusted to her care and who look to her to protect them. How can she reasonably do that if she is also afraid enough to alert the school administrators to the possibility of him showing up and also file a restraining order against him?

Kosmicjack, I dearly love you, but I have to disagree.

I once had a parent threaten to kill me after I reported him for abuse (mandated reporting is supposed to be anonymous, but he figured it out). He threatened to come to school and "shoot the place up."

According to the logic I've seen in this thread, my prescience posed a danger to the kids. Should I have lost my job? It's the same thing, IMO.

This is a tough decision, everyone obviously wants the best for the children.

The difference being, you were threatened based on doing your job (it is actually a legal requirement in most places for teachers to report abuse), while in the scenario in the OP it was not connected to the school at all. It was her personal life interfering with her ability to do her job.

No, if there was a credible threat in your situation, I would have advocated a leave of absence. Its unfair, but thats the way it goes.

reply to post by AshleyD


I read the whole thread first. This is quite interesting in there being only two
remedies mentioned. The fact remains, the abusive ex violated a restraining order
or orders. If he went to jail for awhile, the threat may or may not not be neutralized..
would it? It would depend on whether or not the perception of pleasure by the abuser
was greater than the rewards.

What a lot of us don't get yet is the abusive personality is as much a threat as the
ex. That needs adjustment that just incarceration may not be effective in doing. In
fact some abusive people are even more off the rails after they get out.

My position is simple--- when the law doesn't work use what works for them.
And I would work in exactly their jurisdiction with the response, and use help. It works.
Evil cannot be overcome except by a greater evil. The world kinda sucks for it, but also
looks like the only logical game in town doesn't it?

My example-- I introduced the high school bully to his wife of now 40+ years. I saw him
about 20 years ago, he looked like Colonel Kurtz with hyperactive paranoia.

The lawsuit is diected at the wrong people... What about the police department that is failing her. A man causing a disturbance at a school, which could put children into harms way, should be in jail.

Meanwhile down the block... Some peaceful hippie from the 60's is [Snipped] and gets jail time. This country is sooo messed up.

Great arguments from all you guys on both sides of the discussion.

Everyone is bringing up really great points.

For those wondering about his jail sentence, I read in one of the articles that he is due to be released by the end of the month.

It is definitely a failure in our system. It is sad that the teacher has to pay and the school has to take the brunt of the criticism when in reality it is the dunce of a husband who caused the problems and the loose laws that gave him a slap on the wrist.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Great arguments from all you guys on both sides of the discussion.

Everyone is bringing up really great points.

For those wondering about his jail sentence, I read in one of the articles that he is due to be released by the end of the month.

It is definitely a failure in our system. It is sad that the teacher has to pay and the school has to take the brunt of the criticism when in reality it is the dunce of a husband who caused the problems and the loose laws that gave him a slap on the wrist.

That makes the conversation all the more interesting.

my position is that once the threat has subsided, she should be reinstated. But if he gets out so soon, it means the threat has not subsided, but rather simply delayed.

While I have pretty vehemently defended the school on this, I dont want it to get lost that the greater part of this conversation, that is, the way abusive partners are dealt with, legally speaking, is the most important part.

We simply MUST address the legal parameters of these crimes, because, as they are, the victim often gets the short end of the stick for simply being a victim, as this case is a prime example of. It is certainly not her fault, and I dont want any of this to be mistaken for victim blame. I have dealt with too many victims of abuse to EVER blame them.

I still hold, though, that the school can ONLY concern themselves with the safety of the children, and thus, has made the right call here.

And I say again, it is truly unfortunate that this is taking place at a private school. In public schools, there would be other courses of action.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I see a lawsuit brewing. Her termination wasn't work related, the school had no right to fire her.

I'm sure the letters have been written by her attorneys. I surmise that the school will settle out of court and that 2nd grade teacher will probably give up education for something more rewarding, like retirement.

I'll bet the school had no idea how this would blow up in their face.

The Church doesn't need any more bad publicity than they are currently receiving with the continuing pedophile scandal.

americablog.com...

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

But if she has a threat to her own personal safety, then those in her immediate vicinity are also unsafe, in this case, children, who have been entrusted to her care and who look to her to protect them. How can she reasonably do that if she is also afraid enough to alert the school administrators to the possibility of him showing up and also file a restraining order against him?

Kosmicjack, I dearly love you, but I have to disagree.

I once had a parent threaten to kill me after I reported him for abuse (mandated reporting is supposed to be anonymous, but he figured it out). He threatened to come to school and "shoot the place up."

According to the logic I've seen in this thread, my prescience posed a danger to the kids. Should I have lost my job? It's the same thing, IMO.

This is a tough decision, everyone obviously wants the best for the children.

But he did not come to school, it was only a treat.

The letter of the law is different when a perpetrator shows up at a scene, especially if the person has a history of domestic violence.

When there is a convicted felon, or someone on trial for domestic violence, and they show up at a place with young children there are a whole litany or rules, laws, and judgments that can, and will be applied. Most felons can not be anywhere on school grounds, due to many school policies and state laws. (Check your local laws and Policies)

Although I feel for the victim here, there isn't a jury that will side with her termination due to the fact that the childrens safety comes 1st, and with the advent of all the schools shootings they will be able to make this situation look like the next Sandy Hook.

When there is a convicted felon, or someone on trial for domestic violence, and they show up at a place with young children there are a whole litany or rules, laws, and judgments that can, and will be applied. Most felons can not be anywhere on school grounds, due to many school policies and state laws. (Check your local laws and Policies)

reply to post by Realtruth


Then call the police and have him rearrested. Those Laws that keep felons off school property? Lets enforce them. The minute he shows up, arrest him.

But to take away this woman's income because of a possible threat.....I don't agree.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

When there is a convicted felon, or someone on trial for domestic violence, and they show up at a place with young children there are a whole litany or rules, laws, and judgments that can, and will be applied. Most felons can not be anywhere on school grounds, due to many school policies and state laws. (Check your local laws and Policies)

reply to post by Realtruth

 

Then call the police and have him rearrested. Those Laws that keep felons off school property? Lets enforce them. The minute he shows up, arrest him.

But to take away this woman's income because of a possible threat.....I don't agree.

I don't agree either, but I am looking in from the outside here.

But from a jury perspective, or a court prospective, if it even gets to trail, because this is a private school with different policies in place, they will weigh the children's safety first and one person's livelyhood last.

The lawyers will argue. Someone can always get another job, but if one child is hurt due to domestic scene or a felon stalking the victim, on school grounds, then the termination was rightful.

They will argue "If the teacher is no longer there, then the eminent threat no longer exists".

She was most likely a wonderful teacher or they wouldn't have kept her for 14 years, if they were smart they are smart they offered her a healthy severance package. The court will also look at what they gave her upon termination.

It's unfair, but the school can't have this.

Her husband should be in jail.

Then she can work.

reply to post by AshleyD


Terribly sad but totally understandable. The schools number one job is to keep the children safe, and her husband doesn't sound like someone you'd want to have around children. When I was little, during the mid 80's where He-Man and the Thundercats were still a "thing", I was going to a kindergarten in California. A lovely teacher (or what you call them) who was super nice had a terrible boyfriend. One day, he came to the kindergarten screaming and shouting.

The teacher(s) were able to force him out after shouting obscenities and shouting various threats. They locked him outside, and he ran around the small building screaming, yelling "F**K you w***e" and a slew of other things. (I don't recall everything as I was pretty young.)

We had to put down the blinds and the teacher said we'd have to have a nap time. All the time this guy is outside screaming his lungs out. I remember looking around and seeing kids scared out of their minds.

And that's why I'm siding with the school. I wouldn't have personally fired her, but I'd have to find a solution that would be easier on both of us.

I have read though this thread a couple times.

It is so sad to see someone's livelihood destroyed by something that is not in their control.

I can not think of one thing that would help to improve her position aside from offering her a job.

Hind sight being 20/20 I can think about one thing that I would have done if I was in that situation when it happened.

I would have exercised my CCW permit and pulled out a .44 and gave the EX a couple of rounds ALL in the name of safety for the Children. Target Down, Done Deal.

Then the teacher would have been able to keep her job because the threat would have been permanently eliminated.

Actually, up to this point, I am really surprised that teachers haven't started doing things like this to send a message that they are not going to stand by and let vermin come into their school and put the children in Danger.

Maybe it is the anger speaking. And Maybe that is why I am Not a teacher.

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Terribly sad but totally understandable. The schools number one job is to keep the children safe,

It's unfair to her, but after our schools have turned into war grounds like Newton, fairness is a secondary consideration to children's safety.