What do Christians follow, The World or Jesus?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Tell me... if the most wicked, immoral, sinful human accepts Jesus died on the cross for his sins.... is he not redeemed of all his sins?

If he's truly repentant, sure.

But if he accepts Christ, and then goes back to being "the most wicked, immoral, sinful human", it's hard to see that he was repentant, no?

reply to post by AshleyD


I never said working for salvation was a bad thing, I think that's a better concept than faith and faith alone. I don't care for a free gift, I like to earn what I get.

All I was pointing out was the contradictions within said belief. They think it's free, but faith without works is dead, which means it's not free.

reply to post by adjensen


What about on his death bed? What if he truly believes Jesus died for his sins on his deathbed? Would he still get into heaven if he truly believed in Jesus' sacrifice, even after committing all those sins previously?

If yes, then that's an awful convenient loop-hole.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

 

What about on his death bed?

Would he be sorry for his sins? Or sorry that he's dying? You can't "game" God, he knows if you're sincere or not, and I think that a person who acted poorly all their lives would be sorry that they were dying, not that they were truly repentant for what they had done.

But yes, if they were truly repentant, Christianity teaches that it's never too late to be saved. Until you're dead, that is.

reply to post by adjensen


So works aren't needed and you can do whatever you want. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

 

So works aren't needed. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

In the scenario that you presented, no, they are not.

ETA: I see that you edited your post to misrepresent what I said, thanks. No, a Christian cannot "do whatever they want" -- in your example, prior to accepting Christ, the person was not a Christian, so their behaviour is not reflective of Christianity, and if they were to make an amazing recovery after their conversion and not die, they couldn't just go back to their old behaviours and remain a Christian.

Originally posted by abeverage
Look around at the world and the so called "Christian" countries, then at the so called political entities that align themselves with Christianity and this question is easily answered...

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

No such thing as a christian country. You won't find a theocracy anywhere sporting a 100% christian ruled government, so yeah that question is easily answered.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If you have faith in his sacrifice then you can do whatever you want and be saved.

If you have faith in his sacrifice then you also believe His words.
His words say to try not to sin.
Just 'doing whatever you want' isn't exactly the same as 'trying not to sin'.

Are you talking about what some christians call - Once Saved Always saved?
Once saved always saved is a dangerous doctrine that some christians believe.
You could start a thread on that and it would probably go 20 pages of back and
forth. MOST Christians do NOT believe in once saved always saved.
Most christians believe that after you accept Jesus, you can indeed fall into sin
and go to Hell. You can turn your back on Jesus and on God.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The Vatican is a country. And I do think it's considered a 'christian country'.
But other than that ... I think you are right.
Ireland used to be but I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The Vatican is a country. And I do think it's considered a 'christian country'.
But other than that ... I think you are right.
Ireland used to be but I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore.

Christians don't go around blowing eachother up or torturing eachother over disagreements on doctrine and rituals. Even if there are heretics present.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by abeverage
Look around at the world and the so called "Christian" countries, then at the so called political entities that align themselves with Christianity and this question is easily answered...

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

No such thing as a christian country. You won't find a theocracy anywhere sporting a 100% christian ruled government, so yeah that question is easily answered.

Oh you got me there...good point...only place with 100% is the Vatican...

So how about we throw out the "Christian Country" and go by majority rules (let's say 70% or higher...) Does that seem fair to you? A majority of the population sets its culture and its policies.

Basically are you telling me any countries, states, and cites where the population has a majority of Christians (Currently the USA is just below 80%) isn't run by Christians?

Do you really want to argue that? Really?

Or would rather admit that most "Christians" live in the world than by Christ's words?

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by abeverage
Look around at the world and the so called "Christian" countries, then at the so called political entities that align themselves with Christianity and this question is easily answered...

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

No such thing as a christian country. You won't find a theocracy anywhere sporting a 100% christian ruled government, so yeah that question is easily answered.

Oh you got me there...good point...only place with 100% is the Vatican...

So how about we throw out the "Christian Country" and go by majority rules (let's say 70% or higher...) Does that seem fair to you? A majority of the population sets its culture and its policies.

Basically are you telling me any countries, states, and cites where the population has a majority of Christians (Currently the USA is just below 80%) isn't run by Christians?

Do you really want to argue that? Really?

Or would rather admit that most "Christians" live in the world than by Christ's words?

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

In the case of the U.S. we're run by democracy. You know, people vote for what they want and statistics are a bit off, otherwise you wouldn't see things like abortion being legalized, or pornography or homosexuality, or drunkeness, or other religions for that matter, but the Constitution wasn't written by christians it was largely written and ratified by Freemasons which has their own religion. If we were ruling this world it would be with an iron hand and the entire world would be a giant Theocracy. The Freemasons are the ones running this nation and probably every other one. Jesus never commanded us to rule this world because this world is going to fade away and we're waiting on the next world.

C'mon man, wikipedia seriously?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by abeverage
Look around at the world and the so called "Christian" countries, then at the so called political entities that align themselves with Christianity and this question is easily answered...

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

No such thing as a christian country. You won't find a theocracy anywhere sporting a 100% christian ruled government, so yeah that question is easily answered.

Oh you got me there...good point...only place with 100% is the Vatican...

So how about we throw out the "Christian Country" and go by majority rules (let's say 70% or higher...) Does that seem fair to you? A majority of the population sets its culture and its policies.

Basically are you telling me any countries, states, and cites where the population has a majority of Christians (Currently the USA is just below 80%) isn't run by Christians?

Do you really want to argue that? Really?

Or would rather admit that most "Christians" live in the world than by Christ's words?

edit on 13-6-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

In the case of the U.S. we're run by democracy. You know, people vote for what they want and statistics are a bit off, otherwise you wouldn't see things like abortion being legalized, or pornography or homosexuality, or drunkeness, or other religions for that matter, but the Constitution wasn't written by christians it was largely written and ratified by Freemasons which has their own religion. If we were ruling this world it would be with an iron hand and the entire world would be a giant Theocracy. The Freemasons are the ones running this nation and probably every other one. Jesus never commanded us to rule this world because this world is going to fade away and we're waiting on the next world.

C'mon man, wikipedia seriously?

Thank you for proving my point. If we have a vote and this country is 80% Christians they are part of this world. EXCUSES! Christians fight wars, Kill their neighbors, don't recycle, guzzle gas, watch porn, shop till they drop, ,commit adultery, have abortions and hundreds of other things Of this world...unless you believe that only 20% of this population does it alll??? RIDICULOUS!

Jesus never commanded us to rule this world because this world is going to fade away and we're waiting on the next world.

And thank you for proving to me why "Christians" don't give a rip...of course it might be a long wait but hey last 2,000 has gone by in a blink right?

Matthew 25:14-30

“For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money.

As usual we can spout scripture all day. But I am here to tell you were this your home and it was treated with such disrespect would you reward the tenants? And you tell me you awaiting the next? You have buried your talents and your heads...

God allowed us this Earth and we have trashed it, abused it's wealth, disregarded our fellow men God's creations through war and indifference! In the return I would expect the master would love to see this place gleaming, and more beautiful upon arrival.

I am sorry but this sounds like a typical "Christian" response give me excuses and refuse ownership in your duties of your masters house. When your master returns they expect a reward? You expect a heaven when they have allowed his house to become(created) a hell? If the Masters Journey is almost over do you think telling him you were a good "Christian" will cut it or will the evidence of the shape of this house speak differently?

Foolish...

reply to post by abeverage

Christians fight wars, Kill their neighbors, don't recycle, guzzle gas, watch porn, shop till they drop, ,commit adultery, have abortions and hundreds of other things Of this world...unless you believe that only 20% of this population does it alll??? RIDICULOUS!

You seem to be under the misconception that we are not human. We suffer the same temptations as everyone else, but the difference is we are empowered to resist them. However, it is written that no murderer, homsexual, thief, adulterer or sexually immoral, idol worshipper etc. will see the Kingdom of God. Yet when you come to Christ his blood washes over you and makes you clean and you are a new person in him.

Now i can't vouch for someone else, but before i had my salvation experience 2.5 years ago i didn't care about abortion, it didn't register as a blip on my radar. I had sex with married women, i committed fornication many times, engaged in drugs and alcohol, hated and even persecuted christians and i didn't care who i hurt. I was being consumed by hatred, anger and rage. After my salvation experience that all changed. I have deep regrets about the things i did wrong, somethings i wish i had never opened the door to, somethings i wish i could take back. I went from being a sociopath to being a human. It's Christ that makes us more than who we were, he makes us better.

No one truly embracing Christ's teaching, would ever resort to murder, that is considered anathema and those who do not try to live the life, are not one of us. One thing you cannot do is ride the fence, you're either all for him or not at all.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The Vatican is a country. And I do think it's considered a 'christian country'.
But other than that ... I think you are right.
Ireland used to be but I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore.

Christians don't go around blowing eachother up or torturing eachother over disagreements on doctrine and rituals. Even if there are heretics present.

You're right, they just go around blowing Muslims up and killing people who disagree with them. You must have a short memory, because the Crusades and Inquisitions weren't THAT long ago.

Christianity is far from having a squeaky clean record as you apparently believe.

The underlining issue stems from this long war fought between Christianity and the world concerning the origin of life. Given that many Christians have been compromising there faith in the Genesis account of history and creation (which Jesus taught as literal history) to appease to the worlds view of the origin of life since before Darwin's time, that view being the ancient pantheistic belief that has been given the guise of scientific credibility called evolution, I would say that quite a few Christians are well on there way towards completely falling away from the faith altogether to become of the world. All this will take at this point is for the strong delusion to come into action. Prophecy is already being fulfilled when it comes to the falling away of the faith.

What these theistic evolutionists fail to realize as they try to come to a middle ground with the secular evolutionists, is that not only is this undermining sound Biblical doctrine but the secular evolutionists are never satisfied regardless. The true motive of the secular evolutionist groups that dialogue with evangelists is to get them to further compromise on their faith. They have no intention of compromising. Ultimately, when the time of tribulation comes they will realize that these groups actually want nothing less than for all vestiges of Christianity to be wiped off the face of the earth. You can clearly see this as they all attack the compromised view of creationism just as viciously as they attack strict creationism. In the military, it is taught that allowing the enemy to gain a foothold in the camp in any way is not an option, no negotiating, no surrender etc, as this greatly increases your chance of being defeated. Christians have failed this task miserably, as so plainly demonstrated in famous verses such as the one below.

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. - 1 Timothy 6:19-21

Exposing the Pagan Roots of Evolution

reply to post by BlackManINC


The creation of the world has little to do with salvation. My position is i'll accept Moses' account as given him by God. Other than that i don't care how he created the world or universe. I'm here, thats all i need to know. If it bothers people that much then they can ask Jesus when he gets here. There are far more weightier matters we should be concerning ourselves with than getting bogged down by things that have precious little to do with the message and the good news.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The Vatican is a country. And I do think it's considered a 'christian country'.
But other than that ... I think you are right.
Ireland used to be but I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore.

Christians don't go around blowing eachother up or torturing eachother over disagreements on doctrine and rituals. Even if there are heretics present.

You're right, they just go around blowing Muslims up and killing people who disagree with them. You must have a short memory, because the Crusades and Inquisitions weren't THAT long ago.

Christianity is far from having a squeaky clean record as you apparently believe.

Uh-huh.

Like i said earlier, i have wasted enough pearls on you.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


What pearls? All I've seen so far is you parroting what a corrupt church teaches you. Think for yourself.

You are awfully self-righteous aren't you? Jesus told us to be humble, you are the opposite of humble.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by BlackManINC

 

The creation of the world has little to do with salvation. My position is i'll accept Moses' account as given him by God. Other than that i don't care how he created the world or universe. I'm here, thats all i need to know. If it bothers people that much then they can ask Jesus when he gets here. There are far more weightier matters we should be concerning ourselves with than getting bogged down by things that have precious little to do with the message and the good news.

The Biblical view of the origin of life is synonymous with everything else ever taught in the Bible. If Genesis is a myth, just an allegory, or is wrong, the book that tells us how this whole conflict between God and Satan started, then that automatically invalidates the rest of the Bible as well as the salvation promised to us by the very God that started it all and taught Genesis as real history. It has everything to do with salvation. How else will the anti-Christ convince Christians that he is the same Christ as the first century Christ? He will have to in some way discredit the word of God and get us to agree with it by a strong delsion that will be so powerful that it will even deceive the very elect as it says, that includes the old testament, not just the new testament. Why do you think the Biblical view of our origins is so vehemently attacked by the devils advocates posing as scientists almost more than anything else? If what is taught in the OT was of no importance to our salvation then the world wouldn't be spending so much time trying to shape our opinions about it. It is the almost lone reason why there is a falling away from the faith right now, starting with "compromise" for the sake of keeping in line with what is pawned off as "science". The question of where we came from and henceforth where we are supposed to be headed will no doubt be a major aspect of the blasphemes the son of prediction will preach when he is revealed.