Patriot Act Author calls Obama's NSA Assurances "a bunch of bunk"

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posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, who introduced the PATRIOT Act on the House floor in 2001, has declared that lawmakers’ and the executive branch’s excuses about recent revelations of NSA activity are “a bunch of bunk.”

In an interview on Laura Ingraham’s radio show Wednesday morning, the Republican congressman from Wisconsin reiterated his concerns that the administration and the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court have gone far beyond what the PATRIOT Act intended. Specifically, he said that Section 215 of the act “was originally drafted to prevent data mining” on the scale that’s occurred.

Sensenbrenner, the current chairman on the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations, suggested that the secret nature of the FISA court has prevented appropriate congressional oversight over the NSA’s activities.

When asked whether he agreed with those in Washington calling leaker Edward Snowden a traitor, Sensenbrenner responded, “No, I don’t agree,” and said that he would not have known the extent of abuse by the FISA court and the NSA without Snowden’s disclosures.

The congressman has earlier said he believes the PATRIOT Act needs to be amended to protect Americans’ privacy.


www.nationalreview.com...

The tides appear to be turning quickly.... Just two days ago, polls indicated a majority "didn't care" about the surveillance programs. New polls indicate 53% of Americans disagree with the PRISM program. Of course, polls are an art and easily skewed so I don't count that as a coup, but it does give you hope!

This scandal has deeply divided citizens, companies, and the government itself. I've lost the respect of several colleagues because I do not support the blanket data mining. I fight terrorism every day and firmly believe there are ways to accomplish a task without trampling on our basic Constitutional rights. Unfortunately, some of colleagues disagree....




posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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Doesn't look like the way he says.

Reform the Patriot Act | Section 215


What is Section 215?
Section 215 allows the FBI to order any person or entity to turn over "any tangible things," so long as the FBI "specif[ies]" that the order is "for an authorized investigation . . . to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities."

Section 215 vastly expands the FBI's power to spy on ordinary people living in the United States, including United States citizens and permanent residents.

The FBI need not show probable cause, nor even reasonable grounds to believe, that the person whose records it seeks is engaged in criminal activity.

The FBI need not have any suspicion that the subject of the investigation is a foreign power or agent of a foreign power.

The FBI can investigate United States persons based in part on their exercise of First Amendment rights, and it can investigate non-United States persons based solely on their exercise of First Amendment rights.

For example, the FBI could spy on a person because they don't like the books she reads, or because they don't like the web sites she visits. They could spy on her because she wrote a letter to the editor that criticized government policy.

Those served with Section 215 orders are prohibited from disclosing the fact to anyone else. Those who are the subjects of the surveillance are never notified that their privacy has been compromised.

If the government had been keeping track of what books a person had been reading, or what web sites she had been visiting, the person would never know.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


I think his statements are Bunk.

He knew what he was producing when he contrived and drafted the Patriot Act. He knew what it was for.

A Legal way to Override Existing Laws without the Need for an Executive Order.

I think maybe his conscience is getting to him and he is trying to find a way to renounce his actions.

Data Mining . ? That is the first time I have heard that line.

If that is the case then why in the Hell was it created directly after 9/11? Was there any Data in the World Trade Centers?

Man that makes me mad as hell.

Data Mining? . .. Terrorists Don't have a Need to Mine Data.

Holy Hell my B.S. Meter is at its MAX. Go Figure.
edit on 12-6-2013 by ShadellacZumbrum because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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This might be considered slightly off topic because it isn't about the Patriot Act, but it IS about the Constitution.... I recently came across this quote which is credited to founding father, Patrick Henry -

(I have to admit it made me go "hmmm")



This Constitution is said to have beautiful features; but when I come to examine these features, sir, they appear to me horribly frightful. Among other deformities, it has an awful squinting; it squints toward monarchy, and does not this raise indignation in the breast of every true American? Your president may easily become king. Your Senate is so imperfectly constructed that your dearest rights may be sacrificed to what may be a small minority; and a very small minority may continue for ever unchangeably this government, altho horridly defective. Where are your checks in this government? Your strongholds will be in the hands of your enemies. It is on a supposition that your American governors shall be honest that all the good qualities of this government are founded; but its defective and imperfect construction puts it in their power to perpetrate the worst of mischiefs should they be bad men; and, sir, would not all the world, blame our distracted folly in resting our rights upon the contingency of our rulers being good or bad? Show me that age and country where the rights and liberties of the people were placed on the sole chance of their rulers being good men without a consequent loss of liberty! I say that the loss of that dearest privilege has ever followed, with absolute certainty, every such mad attempt.


www.theamericanrevolution.org...



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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It takes a very basic level of education and ability to walk upright and fog a mirror to serve in Congress. The Intelligence community tends to recruit, trap or steal the very best people the world has to offer. Pitting the wits of one against the other? I'd say Congress got played like a cheap flute and now they're surprised. :shk:

They learned absolutely nothing from the 60's and 70's. This is all just a re-run of past events with better technology. (FAR better tech..). I have no problem believing he didn't know or anticipate how badly this would come to be abused. That very fact is the greatest argument for why all Congress members who had anything to do with writing it need to be retired Congress members. Sans pension, if I had it my way.

That idiocy is expected...but unforgivable with the outcomes are this bad.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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It's "the great bunkin" Charlie Brown!



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


I think his statements are Bunk.

He knew what he was producing when he contrived and drafted the Patriot Act. He knew what it was for.

A Legal way to Override Existing Laws without the Need for an Executive Order.

I think maybe his conscience is getting to him and he is trying to find a way to renounce his actions.

Data Mining . ? That is the first time I have heard that line.

If that is the case then why in the Hell was it created directly after 9/11? Was there any Data in the World Trade Centers?

Man that makes me mad as hell.

Data Mining? . .. Terrorists Don't have a Need to Mine Data.

Holy Hell my B.S. Meter is at its MAX. Go Figure.
edit on 12-6-2013 by ShadellacZumbrum because: (no reason given)


Terrorists absolutely do mine data! Not sure where you got that assumption... but they are constantly using the internet and data to make decisions, which is why the NSA should have some capability to monitor them, but not at the cost of collecting data on every single person in the USA "just in case" someone turns into a terrorist if they weren't one already.

Mining data is also known as "big data" and is a huge, multi-billion dollar industry. The companies that collect your data, like Google and Facebook, already mine their own data to push ads to you in your browser, or offer your products and services based on websites you've visited, or to group with other users and create trends over time. Microsoft has the ability to predict where you will be located one year from now, to within 98% accuracy, just based on information you have on your computer and predictive analysis using massive computers or the cloud.

What the NSA is doing is mining the miners.

Our laws have been created by our wonderful government to fully protect THEM, not us. It's all about control, and we don't have it, they do.

~Namaste
edit on 12-6-2013 by SonOfTheLawOfOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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102 mill to alciaduh in syria?
the same government as runs the NSA is FUNDING ALCIADUH
not to mention the FBI created terrorists we know of

will the real terrorists please stand up?

of course we knew that when the DHS hired former top STAZI and NKVD to set this police state aparatus all up
edit on 12-6-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


Well Dan, look at the bright side. At least the NSA will be able to monitor the terrorists real close and personal, given that they work for us now.

Hell of a way to run a nation, isn't it? Just unbelievable some days. The NSA has nerve....enough to earn awards for it.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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I am looking on the bright side brer Wrabbit
the great pumpkin is going to save us from this tyanny!

Which is great, because for a second there I thought i was going to have to get off this couch and do something about this



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne
 


O.K. maybe it is a matter of semantics.

Data Mining is Not the same in that respect. I should have been more clear. The terrorist Don't want to know how many rolls of toilet paper are on your laundery list. Or how many times you send an email to your girlfriend.

And like I said in my previous post you seem to agree that the Act was Not conceive to benefit US but rather create a Loop Hole for the Evil Doers.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 06:14 AM
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Jim Sensenbrenner will remembered as a author of the probably most worst Acts(bill) in US history .



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


I was just telling my wife, I am starting to think that the floodgates of the secrets are starting to open and everything is entering a new stage.

I told her to just keep watching the next few months, the Government goons are going to turn on each other and internal conflicts will destroy their organization and unity.

Simply because of their own fear that they themselves are on the chopping block next, will compel them to bring out dirt on others to vindicate themselves. Things like this I believe are starting to occur more rapidly and frequently, and it will only increase until the entire government becomes a complete unworkable mess.

Our government is beginning to collapse I am afraid, and this is just the opening phase.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by CIAGypsy

This scandal has deeply divided citizens, companies, and the government itself. I've lost the respect of several colleagues because I do not support the blanket data mining. I fight terrorism every day and firmly believe there are ways to accomplish a task without trampling on our basic Constitutional rights. Unfortunately, some of colleagues disagree....


That's exactly what I am observing occurring all over the place currently.
It has happened and will continue to happen at an increasingly frequent pace.

When people cannot trust anyone anymore, they cannot work together very well.
They will fear their own personal loss, and as a result lash out in defense (backed into a wall and all that).

I find it amazing to hear from you, that my anticipations are accurate. Thank you for sharing your feelings on the matter.

But it had to happen I guess, for people to grow into a better society.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

I hate this guy, what a complete jerk.

"Not what it was intended", my butt.

See, its ok to break the law but only if...



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 

I hate this guy, what a complete jerk.

"Not what it was intended", my butt.

See, its ok to break the law but only if...


Yeah...I'm not saying I agree with what he is claiming NOW. Just reporting what he said...



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees. Many of my colleagues are very defensive. These are not bad people... They are not voyeurs who just want to dig in your personal dirt. They truly think they are doing the right thing for the right reasons. Unfortunately, (as I indicated above with the Patrick Henry), that still leaves a heavy liability if you get a person, agency, or political party who decides to set scruples and ethics aside and use that data in ways it wasn't intended. It has happened in the past (MacCarthyism, Watergate, Iran Contra, etc...) and now (IRS, Benghazi, etc...).

Liberty should NOT be solely determined based upon whether someone is "good" or "bad" with their ethics. That's the entire purpose for why the 4th Amendment (and all the amendments, really) are so critically important in this day and age.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000
Jim Sensenbrenner will remembered as a author of the probably most worst Acts(bill) in US history .


Would it surprise anyone to learn that most of the "Patriot Act" was written by Joe Biden.
Way back in the early "90's. It was completed in 2000 and introduced after 9/11.
I don't know about the rest of you people here, but I kind of like to keep track of the time line of things like this.

When you look back at how "things just seem to happen at the right time", a time line helps to put these things into prespective.





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