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We still are operating under the full force and effect of the FOURTH AMENDMENT. It has not been rep

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posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by khimbar
 


What the fourth amendment is all about is this:

You cannot be stopped, or searched, or have your home invaded, or have your personal papers gone through without a warrant.

A warrant may only be issued upon "probable cause". That means they have to believe and convince a magistrate that you are breaking the law. A judge is the only one that can issue a search warrant.


They have to specify exactly what they are looking for as well.

The judge has to be elected by the people to have this authority to sign a warrant.
Anything else is tyranny.




posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by khimbar
 


What the fourth amendment is all about is this:

You cannot be stopped, or searched, or have your home invaded, or have your personal papers gone through without a warrant.

A warrant may only be issued upon "probable cause". That means they have to believe and convince a magistrate that you are breaking the law. A judge is the only one that can issue a search warrant.


That might be what it's about but that isn't what it literally states.

Playing devils advocate purely here, but if 'we' (being the people behind the throne) define the NSA listening to everything as 'reasonable', then they can and the amendment isn't broken. The amendment has it's out built in, in the word 'unreasonable'.

Plus, if we decide that we don't need a warrant to do it, then we avoid the second part.

Even better, if we define that we're not 'searching' or 'seizing; but storing, then we can sidestep the whole thing.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

They have to specify exactly what they are looking for as well.

The judge has to be elected by the people to have this authority to sign a warrant.
Anything else is tyranny.


If 'searching' or 'seizing'. Doesn't mention recording or storing.

Semantically, it's a fascinating debate. If they say it's reasonable and we're only recording and storing, then they can ignore it totally.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by muzzleflash

They have to specify exactly what they are looking for as well.

The judge has to be elected by the people to have this authority to sign a warrant.
Anything else is tyranny.


If 'searching' or 'seizing'. Doesn't mention recording or storing.

Semantically, it's a fascinating debate. If they say it's reasonable and we're only recording and storing, then they can ignore it totally.


Searching is the same as putting out a wide scale wiretap. They are "Searching for info".

Seizing is making a record of that instance. They are "Seizing the info through recording it".

So really there is no semantics debate too challenging for a good orator.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I'm not searching for info, the content is merely stored. I'm recording it. You suspecting my motivation is searching isn't relevant.

I'm not seizing, I'm not taking a sudden or forcible hold. The information is freely offered by being place online. I'm merely diverting it to save.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yes you are so right. We get to be secure in our persons. Unless, and only if probable cause has been established by a sworn affidavit by a law enforcement officer that lays out in specificity the laws that we are alleged to have broken. Then they can only seize those things that have been described within the warrant. It is not a wholesale permission slip to grab everything. It must be specific.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by khimbar
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I'm not searching for info, the content is merely stored. I'm recording it. You suspecting my motivation is searching isn't relevant.

I'm not seizing, I'm not taking a sudden or forcible hold. The information is freely offered by being place online. I'm merely diverting it to save.





They can say whatever BS they want.
But push will come to shove, that can be counted on.

So let em run their mouths all day, doesn't matter.
It will only make the inevitable even that much more messed up in the end.

I ain't fooled by it.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by inverslyproportional
 





Might as well just enjoy the show, no good being the only idiot wasting your time trying to change it, nobody will listen or even contemplate any action the would actually work to force a much needed change.


That's how your country got where it is bud. Don't play into the game. They WANT you to think everyone is apathetic, they WANT you to believe change is never coming. Look around you, look at OWS and the various other groups that have propped up in the past few years. Your country is anything but apathetic.

Here's the thing tho, and it's a tough pill to swallow. Those morons, you know, the ones who don't think exactly how you want them to, and didn't vote the way you wanted them to..... their opinions and votes count too. They might not see eye to eye with you, but that hardly makes them morons.

no sir, only people who decide to not take part at all are the morons, there is no "voting for the wrong guy" there is only "voting" and "not voting".


There is obviously such a thing as voting for the wrong guy, your belief there is not, is ignorant. Hitler was the wrong guy, they voted him in, Obama, while I dont believe has been any where nearly as bad, is also the wrong guy.

The fact that so many so joyfully voted him in again, only goes to show, that the problem is worse than I feared originally. He has done nothing good for the country at all that I can see, every one of his policies has been bad for everyone they effect except the elite.

These useful idiots will just vote for who they tell them to next time also, furthering the slide. Even worse, they will do it gladly, with a smile on their face, while slapping eachother on the backs, and congratulating everyone who helped. Never even realizing why nothing ever changes.

It will never change, because they dont really want it to.

They just want to watch the TV an play the internet, on their smart phones.

As long as they can, they will never do anythng, except maybe complain.

All the while watching Rome burn around them, and never even acknowledging they help set out the gas, and even struck the match.

I dont think this is very hard to see at all.

It has happened many times before in history, it is happening now in America. Americans will destroy this country from the inside out, and blame everyone but those truly responsible when it happens, OURSELVES.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

They can say whatever BS they want.
But push will come to shove, that can be counted on.

So let em run their mouths all day, doesn't matter.
It will only make the inevitable even that much more messed up in the end.

I ain't fooled by it.


Please don't think I'm defending this. I'm just pointing out how easy it will be for them to sidestep this as a minor inconvenience if they want to.

I am in no way condoning this or saying it's acceptable.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yes you are so right. We get to be secure in our persons. Unless, and only if probable cause has been established by a sworn affidavit by a law enforcement officer that lays out in specificity the laws that we are alleged to have broken. Then they can only seize those things that have been described within the warrant. It is not a wholesale permission slip to grab everything. It must be specific.


Yes it is a very important central aspect to our societies' health.

The people of this nation sought to limit the power of unchecked government by instituting a system of checks and balances that were designed to keep tyrants hand's tied.

The problem is that we have to somehow renew this concept, as most government officials have totally forgotten how it is suppose to work.

For example, many of the 'warrants' issued these days are like cookie cutter versions and are signed without even being looked at closely. This is a serious problem and ultimately it is the fault of the people themselves because they have election power over these individuals posing as judges.

By not keeping informed at what the governments are doing, the citizens have no ability to determine who they should vote for in the first place. So they end up voting turncoat judges that will sell them to the prison industrial complex without a fair trial, and without following any of the legitimate protocols of our legal system's intended functions.

Our system is really screwed up, and the worst part of it is, all the people profiting from this system are absolutely determined to keep their grips on power no matter what. They will say and do anything to escape having to face justice.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by muzzleflash

They can say whatever BS they want.
But push will come to shove, that can be counted on.

So let em run their mouths all day, doesn't matter.
It will only make the inevitable even that much more messed up in the end.

I ain't fooled by it.


Please don't think I'm defending this. I'm just pointing out how easy it will be for them to sidestep this as a minor inconvenience if they want to.

I am in no way condoning this or saying it's acceptable.


I know you weren't, as you said you were playing D's advocate.

However, I was merely showing you how easily I can harshly reject those things they say.
And how easy it is to counter-twist them.

I hold no ill against you khimbar, no worries.
Thanks for keeping the discussion flowing.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

I know you weren't, as you said you were playing D's advocate.

However, I was merely showing you how easily I can harshly reject those things they say.
And how easy it is to counter-twist them.

I hold no ill against you khimbar, no worries.
Thanks for keeping the discussion flowing.


Phew.



But harshly rejecting them won't stand up in court. That's the problem.

Like George Carlin said 'They own everyone'.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by inverslyproportional


It has happened many times before in history, it is happening now in America. Americans will destroy this country from the inside out, and blame everyone but those truly responsible when it happens, OURSELVES.


As far as I am concerned, after reviewing US History closely, this nation has always been a tyranny, albeit a tyranny with decent quality convincing propaganda.

We never had a country, it was all an illusion to fool us into consensual slavery. To get us to march off to fight their international wars to help them control global resources and rape the profits.

Yes, it is very much like Rome, in these respects.
It is the fate of any empire really if you think about it.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 

Someone should take a leaf outta the 'get Al Capone' playbook.

If you can't get the bastards on illegal spying because the cite 'state secrets' to blow the case out of court...try another angle.

Try doing them on the equivalent of tax evasion...



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by MysterX
 


LOL. If only...

Frankly, I don't know what the hell we are going to do. We are up against a bunch of lawyers that belong to the Federalist Society and have infiltrated the Executive Branch. They get to interpret law without any oversight. It is insane.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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Apparently our government does not know the difference between a privilege
and a right, you see they need their "privilege" revoked because it is infringing
on our rights, and no they shouldn't be trusted, governments should be scrutinized
first, and then once we know what they are actually doing we can trust its ok.

Again i find myself wondering why we refuse to learn from the past, many other
countries have been down this road of giving away their rights for so called safety,
we could ask them what its like but most of em are dead or dont have the right
to tell us the truth........

I suppose gorge carlin got it quite right when he said "they aren't rights they are
a list of temporary privileges, if someone can choose to take it away then it isnt
a right."

Land of the kinda free, home of the not really brave more so terrified into submission.......



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 03:37 AM
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All of our constitutional rights, and human rights for that matter, were superseded by a presidential order that was put into effect on September 11th 2001. On that day we as a country were put into a "state of emergency", and that state of emergency is still in effect today. When this state of emergency was implemented, it stated "Because the terrorist threat continues, the national emergency declared on September 14, 2001, last extended on September 5, 2006, and the powers and authorities adopted to deal with that emergency, must continue in effect beyond September 14, 2007. Therefore, I am continuing in effect for an additional year the national emergency I declared on September 14, 2001, with respect to the terrorist threat.", which means that the state of emergency will continue to be renewed until the "threat of terrorism" no longer exists. (On a side note, President Bush's declaration of a state of emergency was actually an expansion to President Clinton's which was implemented in 1995 to limit trade to "Terrorists Who Threaten To Disrupt the Middle East Peace Process")

"Of the 54 National Security Presidential Directives issued by the [George W.] Bush Administration to date, the titles of only about half have been publicly identified. There is descriptive material or actual text in the public domain for only about a third. In other words, there are dozens of undisclosed Presidential directives that define U.S. national security policy and task government agencies, but whose substance is unknown either to the public or, as a rule, to Congress."

Contingency plans on 9/11 also included "continuity of government", or COG, which sounds rather ordinary at first until it is revealed that the shadow government created during this plan was continued indefinitely, and without congress's knowledge. The white house even refused to share details about the continuity of government with the Homeland Security Committee of the U.S. Congress.

The last two paragraphs were partially off topic, but the short response to the OP is that we are in fact no longer operating by any of the constitutional amendments while we are in a state of emergency. This is the reason the US is able to "legally" get away with the travesties they commit.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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Are you nuts? The patriot act has nullified the fourth amendment, almost nullified the first and second as well.

They spy on anyone they please, they impose more taxes on their enemies, they have assination plans for occupy and probably tea party, they control the media, control the elections, use drones anywhere and anytime they feel like.

What constitution? The patriot act reeks of totalitarian rule. The tsa body searches and x-ray scanners. NDAA!



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


thank you for being a patriot of the planet earth your 2 cents are unbiased and just



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


You raise some excellent points about the Diebold machines. At our polling station and many others around our county, we saw nothing but support for one guy (generally outnumbered 3-1), yet on the news we watch as the other guy wins? Hmm???






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