Snowden has the goods on everyone

considering the scope of the operations someone was bound to leak it sooner or later.

and no he doesn't have everything - not even close.

reply to post by Bilk22


That's great story telling friend. Truly! I very much enjoyed reading your post.

However, I don't think that's very in line with reality.

I think Edward Snowden managed to get where we was by sheer happenstance and luck. It's called the "Swiss Cheese Effect". You have 100 layers of swiss cheese, stacked up, and in motion (motion is the key, as my analogy is reflecting life, and life isn't static, it's dynamic). Eventually, those holes in the swiss cheese are going to line up and provide a solid hole through the entire stack.

This high school drop out managed to find that hole and effectively cheat, lie and cajole his way up next to the NSA. That's what I think. I don't think there's someone or some group helping him. The man hasn't earned anything worth while in his entire life. He has NEVER earned any personal or professional accomplishments. Thats what this whole thing is - his one accomplishment in life. That's why he came forward (despite him profusing otherwise) and made him self known.

Those who have never earned or accomplished anything significant on their own don't worry about throwing everything away - why would they? He knew he could fly to Hong Kong, he knew he could evade authorities (which remains to be seen), and he made himself public so he could be immortalized for this one "Great Accomplishment". Those who earn significant personal accomplishments in their life don't throw them away willy nilly. And IF they did risk it (for the greater good) they sure as hell wouldn't go public.

That's how I see the man.

Originally posted by zeeon
reply to post by Bilk22

 

That's great story telling friend. Truly! I very much enjoyed reading your post.

However, I don't think that's very in line with reality.

I think Edward Snowden managed to get where we was by sheer happenstance and luck. It's called the "Swiss Cheese Effect". You have 100 layers of swiss cheese, stacked up, and in motion (motion is the key, as my analogy is reflecting life, and life isn't static, it's dynamic). Eventually, those holes in the swiss cheese are going to line up and provide a solid hole through the entire stack.

This high school drop out managed to find that hole and effectively cheat, lie and cajole his way up next to the NSA. That's what I think. I don't think there's someone or some group helping him. The man hasn't earned anything worth while in his entire life. He has NEVER earned any personal or professional accomplishments. Thats what this whole thing is - his one accomplishment in life. That's why he came forward (despite him profusing otherwise) and made him self known.

Those who have never earned or accomplished anything significant on their own don't worry about throwing everything away - why would they? He knew he could fly to Hong Kong, he knew he could evade authorities (which remains to be seen), and he made himself public so he could be immortalized for this one "Great Accomplishment". Those who earn significant personal accomplishments in their life don't throw them away willy nilly. And IF they did risk it (for the greater good) they sure as hell wouldn't go public.

That's how I see the man.

This is a bunch of goddamn nonsense. "Personal accomplishments"? Being hired by the CIA is pretty much a damn good personal and professional accomplishment.

Just because someone doesn't have a high school diploma or a BA doesn't make them any less of a man or woman. Ridiculous.

People throw away significant things all the time in the name of the greater good. Not everyone is a souless, selfish sack of #.

@ Muzzleflash & Asktheanimals

Lets take a good hard look at what these leaks have achieved in real life. Nothing.
If Snowden had material that could bring the whole government down, then it would likely bring the entire political system down with it, because all this stamping over civil liberties goes back to Bush and 9/11 and probably beyond that point. The fact Obama has followed a right wing Republicans trajectory only proves the two party system is in collusion on a deeper level..aka the not so secret "secret government".

So if you expose half of it, in this case the Obama administration, you expose all of it, including the republicans and beyond all of that as-well. As we see this goes beyond politics and all over the private sector, with collusion.

The fact none of this leaking has actually done any real damage, proves its all a set up to me..I mean we are all still posting online, knowing were being monitored for one example..., And at this point almost nothing could appear in terms of a smoking gun, to really do any damage. If Obama and Bush were half brothers, who wear human like masks and are really David Ike's Lizard people, i don't think the public at large would be too bothered anymore haha. We have our porn on tap and wide screen TV's and McDonalds after all, who needs freedom.

Originally posted by zeeon
reply to post by Bilk22

 

That's great story telling friend. Truly! I very much enjoyed reading your post.

However, I don't think that's very in line with reality.

I think Edward Snowden managed to get where we was by sheer happenstance and luck. It's called the "Swiss Cheese Effect". You have 100 layers of swiss cheese, stacked up, and in motion (motion is the key, as my analogy is reflecting life, and life isn't static, it's dynamic). Eventually, those holes in the swiss cheese are going to line up and provide a solid hole through the entire stack.

This high school drop out managed to find that hole and effectively cheat, lie and cajole his way up next to the NSA. That's what I think. I don't think there's someone or some group helping him. The man hasn't earned anything worth while in his entire life. He has NEVER earned any personal or professional accomplishments. Thats what this whole thing is - his one accomplishment in life. That's why he came forward (despite him profusing otherwise) and made him self known.

Those who have never earned or accomplished anything significant on their own don't worry about throwing everything away - why would they? He knew he could fly to Hong Kong, he knew he could evade authorities (which remains to be seen), and he made himself public so he could be immortalized for this one "Great Accomplishment". Those who earn significant personal accomplishments in their life don't throw them away willy nilly. And IF they did risk it (for the greater good) they sure as hell wouldn't go public.

That's how I see the man.

In the federal system, once he obtained some college classes, he is considered to have a HS diploma. Recruiters use it all the time. It's not uncommon.

Originally posted by supremecommander
This is a bunch of goddamn nonsense. "Personal accomplishments"? Being hired by the CIA is pretty much a damn good personal and professional accomplishment.

Just because someone doesn't have a high school diploma or a BA doesn't make them any less of a man or woman. Ridiculous.

People throw away significant things all the time in the name of the greater good. Not everyone is a souless, selfish sack of #.

edit on 13-6-2013 by supremecommander because: (no reason given)

While I appreciate your attempt to call me a selfish sack !@$! I'd like to remind you that it's easy to jump to conclusions about who you converse with on a forum.

I served my country for 13 years. I continue to do so. I sacrificed much. So don't speak to me about being selfish.

Try attacking my ARGUMENT instead of attacking me. We call that an ad hominem attack, and it shows that because you won't, or possibly can't refute my argument you instead choose to attack me.

reply to post by fenson76


That's interesting, because I'm in the Federal System, and that is not the case.
He did obtain his GED and a few community college courses. No certifications, no training, nothing.
Went from Security Guard to IT (for the CIA) then claimed to have been stationed "under cover in Geneva".
Of course, the CIA won't confirm or deny he worked for them, but I think his lack of education and experience speak volumes about the man.

One wonders how you leap frog from a minimum wage security guard to working IT in the CIA (then going "under cover" abroad with no experience, education or background in the field. Like I said before - swiss cheese effect. The guy got lucky.

reply to post by zeeon


I for one am with you on this opinion. This "leak" stinks to high heaven, along with Assange and Anonymous...IMO.
all poster boys for any possible agitators at large, like a nice big honey trap along with being useful agents to set the agenda through the MSM that brought them all to the public at large.

People forget that the military industrial complex invented the internet in the first place. I mean we can all post comments and videos online but only the select "chosen few" go viral and end up the talking point around the office cooler. And how do things go viral? Almost always due to exposure from the mainstream media of course.

How did Facebook become a world wide phenomenon for example? Not through commercial advertising and I know not just through word of mouth,. the MSM promoted a private sector company to the hilt..even the supposedly commercial free, state owned BBC.., by repeatedly generating news stories about Facebook and publicizing its existence...i ask you did Myspace get the same blanket media coverage and attention??? NO. I wonder why not? see Facebook stank from the go get.

Originally posted by zeeon

Originally posted by supremecommander
This is a bunch of goddamn nonsense. "Personal accomplishments"? Being hired by the CIA is pretty much a damn good personal and professional accomplishment.

Just because someone doesn't have a high school diploma or a BA doesn't make them any less of a man or woman. Ridiculous.

People throw away significant things all the time in the name of the greater good. Not everyone is a souless, selfish sack of #.

edit on 13-6-2013 by supremecommander because: (no reason given)

While I appreciate your attempt to call me a selfish sack !@$! I'd like to remind you that it's easy to jump to conclusions about who you converse with on a forum.

I served my country for 13 years. I continue to do so. I sacrificed much. So don't speak to me about being selfish.

Try attacking my ARGUMENT instead of attacking me. We call that an ad hominem attack, and it shows that because you won't, or possibly can't refute my argument you instead choose to attack me.

I will attack your silly argument. Snowden is smart, courageous young men who throw away the "american dream" , 200 000 $ salary , beatiful girlfriend, normal family , good health , work in Hawai and cancel all of this because he is conscientious , with good soul man who cannot stand this transition of US in totalitarian surveilance state. I bet he have problem with sleeping also. Will i do that if i was on place of Snowden ? Not. Will you do that ? NO.Why i should do that seeing too many people like you doesnt care and pretend smart guys on net like some top psychiatrists and focusing on Snowden personality instead on the message.

Originally posted by xavi1000
I will attack your silly argument. Snowden is smart, courageous young men who throw away the "american dream" , 200 000 $ salary , beatiful girlfriend, normal family , good health , work in Hawai and cancel all of this because he is conscientious , with good soul man who cannot stand this transition of US in totalitarian surveilance state. I bet he have problem with sleeping also. Will i do that if i was on place of Snowden ? Not. Will you do that ? NO.Why i should do that seeing too many people like you doesnt care and pretend smart guys on net like some top psychiatrists and focusing on Snowden personality instead on the message.

edit on 13-6-2013 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

And you arrived at all the above assumptions how? Because he was TRUSTED with access to highly classified material and then leaked it - betraying that trust? I might agree with you, if he hadn't plastered himself all over the media and gave an interview about it. Yet this fact is overlooked by ALL OF YOU who claim this guy to be a hero.

The very FACT that he decided to go public with it tells me he wanted recognition for it (there are other ways to verify the veracity of leaked information without exposing the source - journalists have been doing it FOR YEARS Stuxnet and Flame were TOP SECRET programs that were leaked and the source is still unknown).

Isn't it interesting how the topic has shifted from the NSA's activities to that of Edward Snowden? And it wasn't people like me who shifted it that way - it was everyone who glorified this guy and all of this hero worship...which I might add HE CAUSED by going public!

I guess some people can't take off the blinders for one second.

reply to post by xavi1000


It does seem heartless to attack somebody who appears to be brave and to have sacrificed a lot. I hope all these ideas are wrong. Even if these ideas are generally true, Snowden could still be a brave and courageous guy. I am just a little suspicious about the agencies involved. Maybe it says something about the doubters (even reluctant ones like me) that we are suspicious of a noble act. Maybe time will tell.

reply to post by zeeon


He go public only for one reason , to stay alive , "public should decide " . How do you know that leakers of Stuxnet and Flame are not dead?

Originally posted by circuitsports

and no he doesn't have everything - not even close.

That does not mean that there are Not others in it with him.

They ( the 'ol boys with their @$$es on fire ) have already indicated at how Surprised they are that he had access to So much information. So they told on themselves with that one.

In addition to that Loretta Sanchez has made it known publicly that what is in the media so far is " Just The Tip Of The Iceberg".

I am Certain there is More to Come. .. So, .. Stay Tuned. .. .

Originally posted by xavi1000
reply to post by zeeon

 

He go public only for one reason , to stay alive , "public should decide " . How do you know that leakers of Stuxnet and Flame are not dead?

Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? What's the point in killing Snowden once the cats out of the bag?
You kill people to PREVENT exposure, not as vengence for being exposed - atleast not typically.

That's assuming the Government would have eventually figured out who he was. We don't know that they would have. And - I'm sure the journalist that had contact with the leaker of Stuxnet and Flame would be aware of his or her demise. That's why the Government threatens journalist with prison if they don't reveal their source.
That's also how we know the source is still unknown.

Originally posted by DiscreteParticle
reply to post by xavi1000

 

It does seem heartless to attack somebody who appears to be brave and to have sacrificed a lot. I hope all these ideas are wrong. Even if these ideas are generally true, Snowden could still be a brave and courageous guy. I am just a little suspicious about the agencies involved. Maybe it says something about the doubters (even reluctant ones like me) that we are suspicious of a noble act. Maybe time will tell.

Lets look at it like this for arguments sake...Lets imagine that 9/11 was an inside job and lets say that a real whistle blower came forward with some rock solid proof it was, (it would have to be something irrefutable like video footage of the plotters actually plotting it for example, because you have to see it on TV to believe it these days). Now lets imagine that even one MSM outlet would even dare touch this evidence in the first place. Then lets imagine that the public all became aware of the evidence and demanded justice. This is the predictable way events would transpire. So what you would get is, 3 or 4 or maybe even a dozen conspirators and plotters would be hung out to try, whilst the rest of the apparatus that enabled or planned it, sealed itself off and carried on as usual. This is how government's are organised, especially the US gov, its highly compartmentalized, so if one agency fvcks up and gets caught out, it can be cordoned off and problem solved. i mean how many agencies are there within the government..I cant even imagine..because the CIA and NSA and TSA are only three of them. Then if you get a president who gets caught you just swap him for a clone (no not a literal clone, just someone who is in on the inside joke)...Obviously.

The issue is that if the above scenario had played out for real, before Obama got into office, then the Government could have done any of the moves Ive outlined, in order to simply box off the agency or officials who got caught and move on with business as usual..The public would be appeased and life would go on...with things still moving along..maybe a few years behind schedule but that's all.

But whats happened since Obama got into office on a popular socialist vote..where he declared there would be change and a u turn on Bushes policies, for instance ending the war on terror and closing Guantanamo bay. Whats actually happened is that a supposedly left wing Democrat, and a black man to boot (because if anything a regular black guy would surely be different to a privileged WASP like Bush..or so everyone thought) yet Obama has not only followed Bushes right wing trajectory but exceeded it...proof that the two parties are really just one party with the same agenda. The tin foil hat can be taken off now, because it's in plain sight.

So if it transpired 9/11 was an inside job now, it couldn't be compartmentalized and boxed off, because it would now implicate the entire political system. Any leak now that could expose something like a 9/11 conspiracy or JFK, or faked Moon landing... would not just put a few people in jail, it would collapse the entire system...but now we see what the entire system consists of..its not just the Government, its lots of supposedly private companies as well, like Google and Facebook and possibly or more probably many, many, many, more.

Thats why these leaks are a joke and amount to nothing..Even the MSM (the supposedly independent news media) would have too much to lose at this point by ever exposing any real earth shaking revelation, because as most people accept the MSM and big privately owned businesses are hand in glove with the Government and vice verse. With all the lobbying and special interest groups and how presidents and top officials always move out of Government and straight in to positions as CEO's etc.

Every aspect of modern infrastructure is as good as state owned if the state can force web giants and coerce the MSM to follow an agenda..and vice verse...all the tentacles of Big business and politics are too intertwined to separate and see where one ends and the other begins.. and nobody can afford any big earth shaking revelations to ever become mainstream public knowledge because that could collapse literally everything at this point. Remember the same MSM still call the financial collapse a recession...they wouldn't even use the world recession for at least the first whole year at the beginning of the crisis..

So i cant see the Guardian even trying to bring down its own eventual collapse. Also at this point does even joe public want to know the reality of things? No, they don't, because the public are showing repeatedly they have no appetite to know anything that might rock the boat. So where does that leave us? Well to me at this point it isn't about 9/11 or if it was terrorists event or a false flag...its about everything after it that's happened until now and will go on happening.. I don't want civilization to collapse and be left in anarchy but I don't want a police state either...but right now its looking like its going to be one extreme or the other.

The continual presentation of leaks seems designed to encourage an element of the public who need to believe democracy and the free press are working..the same people who still need to cling on to the belief that voting works.

I mean here is one example of how the independent mainstream media works..I knew a journalist for a mainstream newspaper in the UK. now its well known here that a huge supermarket chain continually rips the public off, this huge supermarket chain, used all sorts of underhand tricks in its stores designed to rip people off...and now and again you see little stories about it in the media..but like this PRISM scandal, nobody bats an eyelid much and it blows over in 24 hours anyway..always.. Anyone for horse meat or price fixing and collusion with other supermarket chains...for example

So I ask the journalist why they never write any negative stories about this huge chain pulling underhand tactics..and the journalist tells me, the paper cant afford to p155 them off as its one of their biggest advertisers.

This is how the free press works...so just think if there was a really huge revelation...nobody in their right mind would touch it..and secondly any real leaks will be shut down and classified, Top Secret, I cant imagine the Guardian even being able to publish classified material...No way..So right there it's shown up for what it all is, absolute BS. These leaks amount to zip, real revelations would never reach the MSM, and the MSM even if it was stupid enough would not be allowed to publish them.

And if the "free press" is caught in a catch 22 because of advertisers, then think about a Government that allows lobbying and political contributions...

Originally posted by zeeon
reply to post by fenson76

 

That's interesting, because I'm in the Federal System, and that is not the case.
He did obtain his GED and a few community college courses. No certifications, no training, nothing.
Went from Security Guard to IT (for the CIA) then claimed to have been stationed "under cover in Geneva".
Of course, the CIA won't confirm or deny he worked for them, but I think his lack of education and experience speak volumes about the man.

One wonders how you leap frog from a minimum wage security guard to working IT in the CIA (then going "under cover" abroad with no experience, education or background in the field. Like I said before - swiss cheese effect. The guy got lucky.

Really, because I WAS IN THE MILITARY and had a GED. I went to college and the ONLY way I got into the Navy was because they considered college = to HS diploma. I couldn't have gotten into the Navy without it. Maybe the rules have changed since then but that was the rule then. I also had a secret clearance for working on mine countermeasures and sonar. Some people have family issues that keep them from graduating. That is the real world. Snowden was also enlisted for a short time and this is most likely how he got past the screening for GED. If the govt went only for those who have a piece of paper, they would be limiting themselves. Is it so hard to believe that he might have abilities that are beyond what a public high school could teach?? wow

Here is another thing to contemplate...
Imagine 9/11 and JKF were inside jobs...well if one fairly average guy can access this top secret PRISM material and expose it, then imagine what Western governments can find out with all their intelligence agencies, all hacking into each others secret computers etc...if those were inside jobs, then every major country have found out about them already..and if that is the case they are all keeping stum about it...there by making them all accessories after the fact,,.see, anything really big is never going to get into the mainstream.

reply to post by opethPA


there is no such thing as breaking unconstitutional laws.
nearly everything the Nazis did was meticulously within german law at the time. and just following orders offered no defense in court

reply to post by Bilk22


Don't worry guys he has every piece of evidence to verify every conspiracy. Roswell, Aliens, Big foot, Chupacabra, JFK, 9/11, KFC's secret herbs and spices...

All of it, he knows the names of the real aurora shooters, He has all the dummies from sandy hook, pictures of Elvis on the crapper from last week at a 7/11 in florida, video of Miguel(michael) Jackson moonwalking across the white house foyet as he mops the floor. All the medical evidence Pharma is complete bunk, all the evidence proving GMO is designed to kill the poor, the location of the death ray on the moon and how it's powered by HAARP, The original photos of the film set and props for the "moon" landing, Evidence and photos of the Secret space program and their various interstellar craft even though 50 years ago they didn't go to the moon. A list of all the illuminati members, their membership cards and timeshare certificates, A picture of him having a beer with osama bin laden, more props and a list of actors from the boston marathon.

Yep, don't worry guys he will make you all sound sane.