Vegetarians will be forced to eat meat in SHTF Scenario

Originally posted by trig_grl
Some of us vegans have been storing up lbs of sprouting seeds/beans which can be sprouted within a few days to eat and pack an over abundance of vitamins that can sustain you by themselves, plus they can be planted to harvest crops and more seeds thus creating a self sustained food source. this will come in handy after you carnivores kill off all the wildlife and have less options for food survival.

the wildlife would not last long in most places.

with unregulated hunting, most wild animals will disapear fast.

more bullets than targets, bullets win, hunters hunt those that have caught game?

reply to post by Evanzsayz

"Now that I'm done scaring you guys to death. Tell me how a vegetarian could survive this scenario because I'm not seeing it. My grandfather grew up in the 30's and was very poor, if they didn't hunt squirrel, fish and butcher hogs he would of died. People just don't realize how good they got it until they lose it."

I seriously doubt that you've scared anybody on this list. Most of us have been around here for awhile. What you propose is not exactly what you should expect. All meat critters will disappear very quickly. First the typical livestock, beef, pork, sheep, goats, chickens, etc. Eventually, within weeks, the breeding animals for replenishing those livestock will be eaten also. Taken by force from the owners. Then what?

Wild game will only support so many people, and those people need the equipment and skills to bring that bacon home. But even the wild game will be hunted out of existence. 'Best be looking at insects at some point for survival. People in the Far East eat them, so will the remaining few here. So maybe you better adjust your assumptions to include insects as "meat."

Yes, a few generations ago many Americans lived fairly close to the land. Not true today in the "gimme" society.
And, yes, vegetarians will probably learn to kill their neighbor for a can of Spam.

I suggest you rent the movie The Road, it gives a gritty look at the future when available meat is usually that of another human.

Hey, people!

Here is some reading:

www.rand.org...

^they actually know what they're talking about.

Perhaps you should, you know, read what the people who know what they're talking have to say.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by teachtaire
Hey, people!

Here is some reading:

www.rand.org...

^they actually know what they're talking about.

Perhaps you should, you know, read what the people who know what they're talking have to say.

Just my 2 cents.

Sir, you are correct.... Thank you for sharing the link. All my military airlift questions are now answered.

reply to post by teachtaire


A true 'SHTF' scenario is not Katrina or Sandy where only a certain area is hit and the surrounding country is intact; it's an EMP, CME or nuclear scenario where no area is left untouched and there's no 'airlift' from outside that's ever going to be coming. No more electricity, no more gasoline, no more supermarkets. The only government you'll see will be martial law and it won't be cheerful about it like some Red Cross lady with coffee and donuts.

One of the earlier commenters was correct; this entire thread is just some gloat by a meat eater about how all them idiot veggie-eaters were going to have to eat meat if things got dire; without a clue as to the amount of energy and time needed to produce meat versus the same amount of food energy available from plant food.

Yes, in a perfect collapse people will start up little backyard farms with chickens, rabbits and greenhouses producing veggies almost year round.

I don't think the possible coming collapse would be such a neat and tidy affair, however.

Our ancestors lived on foraged grubs, roots and berries, with the occasional large meat animal. Populations were small and lives were short and brutish.

Read 'One Second After' for a fairly well-done fictionalized account of the aftereffects of an EMP attack. After a few months, people were eating their family dogs, because not only was there no food for the dogs, but both the people and dogs were starving to death. And this is set in the nice climate of the Carolinas, not a more dire and dangerous climate.

reply to post by Gazrok


I wouldn't dream of forcing my "agenda" on anyone. Just stating fact. We don't need to take a life to surive. But people pick there paths, so who am I tell anyone how to live.

Rabbit starvation has nothing to do with an all meat diet, it is due to the leanness of rabbit meat. As I said I am just stating a fact. No agenda.

Not sure what you mean by vegan ways of getting other nutrients. Calcium is in most dark green leafy vegetables. It is a myth that vegans and vegetarians have to take any dietary supplements.

Personaly I don't think i would eat ANYTHING that is edible. Cannibalism is a short step away from "anything" that is edile. Having said that i have never gone without food for more than four days. This is nothing personal Gazrok i'm not trying to turn you into a vegie. : )



Marc

HI,
this premise is predicated on two possible points...one, that there will be animals to hunt...and from this, two, that the average individual will acquire the ability to hunt (i.e. track, trap, target)
by and large, this will affect the fast-food nation much more than those with plant-based diets, sheerly by the numbers.
otherwise we must consider the vast resource of plant life in any ecosystem (forest, field, jungle - not to mention oceans, and fish - which may be more readily attainable and acceptable alternative to most in those areas facing said scenarios.) that is largely unrecognized, and if at all, as much as a weed, though which for generations previous have been revered and relied upon for life!!~

LOVE

S&F OP.

There is a reason we have canine teeth, and that's so our species can eat meat. There is no substitute for the energy obtained via meat consumption, and those work-arounds that vegans employ now to make up this energy deficit will disappear in a SHTF scenario. Eating meat allows us to spend more time improving our living conditions than we spend getting food.

reply to post by Evanzsayz
ok got to ask where do you get the meat?/ cannibalism ? If you talking wild game deer elk and the like or wild pig or your field milk cow, most will be infected with some kind of infection the deer and elk are starting to come down with infections: chronic wasting disease. Mad cow will be wide spreed, I ask again where do you get meat?

Originally posted by setibuddies
S&F OP.

There is a reason we have canine teeth, and that's so our species can eat meat. There is no substitute for the energy obtained via meat consumption, and those work-arounds that vegans employ now to make up this energy deficit will disappear in a SHTF scenario. Eating meat allows us to spend more time improving our living conditions than we spend getting food.

So mesolithic man used his canine teeth to rip the flesh from animals? Where are you claws? Why do horses, hippos, panda, deer, wild boar and many primates have canines?

If your talking about animal husbandry to obtain energy, then maybe. Hunting no way. You will expend far more energy catching your pray than you gain. We have only been farming meat and growing crops since the neolithic, about 7,000 bce.
This is when our diet became meat rich. And still today it is only the west that has a meat rich diet. You would be far better off sitting under a tree with your loved ones watching your veg grow in my opinion.

Those work-arounds? You mean beans, broccoli, pluses ect for protein? There are no work-arounds just a natural healthy diet.

I am not trying to convert anyone or take the moral high ground, just dispelling some myths.

Marc

The 'old school' SHTF survivors, the ones who did the cave paintings, sure did paint (or whatever that stuff is) a lot on cave walls. I'm sure the drawings of animals and hunting grounds more than double the drawings of a potatoe.

Man was meant to eat meat, but we can choose not to. It has been proven that a diet in above ground veggies are tons better for you than a diet with meat. It is all a choice.

As for those 'have to eat meat with every meal' people think they'll have meat every day (or every week) are fooling themselves.

For those vegans who think this thread is an attack on your way of life - get over yourselves. Maybe your quirkiness is from a lack of B and/or D vitamins. Take your supplements and call us in the morning.

Might want to contemplate being able to identify local plants that are heavy in particular nutrients so you can sort of balance out your diet by intent instead of by accident.

Wild strawberries are good for more than one thing, for example - they're full of vitamin c, manganese and magnesium. You can make a tea out of the leaves and it's a skin antiseptic and tooth cleaner if prepared right. And they grow all over the place, especially in the south.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


Hey, be realistic. The best skill in the citizenry in such a situation would be to have a basic knowledge of soft airfields so they could volunteer in the event of a man shortage. Heck, in a real SHTF scenario any skills which add to the stability of groups rather than individuals is the best approach. Like being able to fix/drive transports or being able to fix/install environmental controls. Agriculture skills are always a plus, especially being able to use modern technology is also a plus. I doubt you'd have your doom scenario, sorry.

Mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, tradesmen, you know? People that know what a plunge bob and square is for. Like using a tube of water to check to see if something is level.

Personally, in a real SHTF situation that was permanent, I'd think the vegetarians will find it the easiest to adapt and find food. (or grow their own). Most meat eaters are used to getting it from the supermarket, and that will disappear almost instantly. Most won't know how to properly clean and dress an animal, let alone kill it efficiently. Heck, I've been hunting a lot in my youth, but mostly only ever watched this being done.

That said, morals aside, when one is starving, that all goes out the window. I'd bet dollars to donuts that a vegetarian that has been starving for two weeks, and comes upon a family cooking a pot of beef stew, is going to dig into that stew like there is no tomorrow! Likewise, even the most squeamish will eat roasted bugs vs. starve to death.

How.... i would assume most will become vegetarians....im sure i will be eating more veges than meat, due to supply.

Build farms and plant trees. you know Like we have been doing for thousands of years.

I like that people seem to believe that in a SHTF scenario that there will be all of this glorious meat just hanging around waiting to be eaten.

Ya'll need to read Collapse by Jared Diamond.

We drop food on countries halfway across the world. Just saying.

reply to post by teachtaire


For most of the SHTF scenarios going around...depending on food drops that may never occur just isn't part of the plan. Also, there is logistics to consider. For a localized disaster, sure, this would work....but for a nationwide one? No way. Even if they could drop food to everyone, they wouldn't have the manpower to distribute the food. Each drop would be like dropping a chicken in an alligator pen, with all the gators snapping for a piece.

They would if people were at specific locations, like the FEMA camps. Stop acting like they're death camps, they're to make certain that people get access to appropriate resources in an effort to simplify logistics.

My point is, if a nationwide catastrophe, FEMA is not going to have the resources or the manpower to do squat for the entire nation.

Do you have any idea how many police officers did not go to work during Katrina or the days after? The collapse of society includes FEMA, and even assumes the National Guard response will be limited.

These resources will be concentrated in major metro areas, if even coherent at all. Within weeks, without the support infrastructure, planes will be grounded, tanks won't roll, soldiers will take their weapons and become warlords, etc.

If the event is localized, sure FEMA can help, but what would your quality of life be, vs. someone who prepped, and is running a generator, grilling some steaks, and kicking back with a few beers?

They would if people were at specific locations, like the FEMA camps. Stop acting like they're death camps, they're to make certain that people get access to appropriate resources in an effort to simplify logistics.

If it was a global SHTF event, then yes, they would absolutely become death camps. They have limited resources, and way too many people. Ever read World War Z....reference the Reddeker Plan, because that is exactly what would happen. It would have to, to ensure survival of the species.

If a local event, then yes, you're right, they would try and aid as many as possible, but a local event isn't as much what we prep for. Those will be of a relatively short duration.





(couldn't resist on this thread)