Lost Tribes of the Green Sahara

Lost Tribes of the Green Sahara

"There is something soul stirring about looking into the face of an ancient human skull and knowing this is my species,"

For much of the past 70,000 years, the Sahara has closely resembled the desert it is today. Some 12,000 years ago, however, a wobble in the Earth's axis and other factors caused Africa's seasonal monsoons to shift slightly north, bringing new rains to an area nearly the size of the contiguous United States. Lush watersheds stretched across the Sahara, from Egypt to Mauritania, drawing animal life and eventually people.

Archaeologists have inventoried the stone tools used by these early inhabitants and the patterns inscribed on their ceramics. They have also identified thousands of their rock engravings, which depict herds of ostriches, giraffes, and elephants. Some of the images suggest that along the way the people of the Green Sahara learned to domesticate cattle. But they remain veiled in mystery. Did they arrive here from the Mediterranean coast, central African jungles, or Nile Valley?

I read this article while enjoying my morning coffee and thought I'd post it here to share with those here who enjoy the topic. I found it rather interesting. It speaks of an Earth Wobble at a time when many other locations on Earth were experiencing "Climate Change" No, I'm not going to debate the present era situation....

This provides a possible insight into a region that if correct still holds many secrets yet to be revealed. The problem we face presently is that the entire region in question is a vast trackless desert. [For the most part] For those of you who have the time, Google Earth the region in question. You'll quickly realize two things.

1. Just how vast and foreboding it truly is.

And

2. You may come to a similar conclusion [as I had many years ago] for the potential for still undiscovered locations which may hold the key to understanding our lost past...

Thoughts?

It certainly does contain a large amount of terrain that hasn't been properly surveyed (no on foot archaeological field survey and no test pits sunk. The dryness is both a curse and a blessing, the layer of vegetation that makes archaeology difficult in jungle or wooded areas is gone, but sand is difficult to dig in (from the archaeological point of view). It also shifts around making mapping a challenge even with GPS.

I've been out into it on two ocassions, both in Egypt as part of a trip to the Karga and Dakha oasis and another I know cannot remember the name of as I write, it is a humbling feeling to travel though those seas of sand, harsh rock, pebbly wadis and the debris of countless cultures- pot sherds do well in the desert.

I would suspect that a number of cultures both presently unknown or only suspected will be found over the next fifty years as the region at present is difficult to travel in both by the nature of the terrain but the difficulty of the various groups jockeying for control.

I think you're onto something. A fair portion of my geography course was on Sub-Saharan and Saharan Africa with emphasis on the past and deep past. I have absolutely no problem imagining that was a much more hospitable and inhabited region at one time.

What captures my imagination and true interest in your point here is that it's not like other areas of the world. In South America, Asia and much of Europe? Climate has obliterated everything that stood before. Humidity alone has worked it's "magic" on both metals and stone alike, as such metal may well have existed in the deep past. Nothing remains.

In this region? Well.... (grin) Look at the Pyramids. They've actually found metal inside them. Intact, recognizable and with little damage, despite the possible evidence of extreme flooding at one point and exposure to water at least once. Ahh.. The desert is the great preserver of history.

There may very well be great discoveries to be made of our very deep past beneath those sands in a condition unlike anywhere else (almost anywhere else ) in the world. Of course, there is a reason it's undiscovered too. As powerful as the desert is to preserve what man makes? It's just as powerful in removing man himself and in the most unpleasant ways.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Iron in the Bronze age Pyramid...

I've gone over that discovery many times here at ATS. The general consensus is that they may have obtained iron meteorite ore.

Largest Impact Crater In The Sahara Discovered

El-Baz named the find Kebira, meaning "large" in Arabic, and also relates to the crater's physical location on the northern tip of the Gilf Kebir region in southwestern Egypt. He said it is uncertain why why a crater this big had never been found before.

"Kebira may have escaped recognition because it is so large – equivalent to the total expanse of the Cairo urban region from its airport in the northeast to the Pyramids of Giza in the southwest," El-Baz said. "Also, the search for craters typically concentrates on small features, especially those that can be identified on the ground. The advantage of a view from space is that it allows us to see regional patterns and the big picture."

AND

This little tidbit...

Rare Rayed Crater Found in Sahara: Meteor Impact Site Was First Detected on Google Earth

Researchers poring over Google Earth images have discovered one of the planet's freshest impact craters--a 45-meter-wide pock in southwestern Egypt that probably was excavated by a fast-moving iron meteorite no more than a few thousand years ago. Although the crater was first noticed in autumn 2008, researchers have since spotted the blemish on satellite images taken as far back as 1972, says Luigi Folco, a cosmochemist at the University of Siena in Italy. He and his colleagues report their find online July 22 in Science.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wow, Slayer, that was an invigorating article! I thank you.

I have always imagined that there must be an almost incomprehensible number of things to be discovered under those sands. How can there not? I knew the Sahara had been fertile in the past but I was not aware of how temporary that state of being was and that it had been preceded by the same situation as there is now. Most interesting, that.

It has always been so annoying that research all over the continent is constantly stymied by war and awful human folly. What can be done about it I have no idea. I hope we don't have to wait for the next wobble to go in there safely.

As Hanslune intimated there is extreme difficulty presented by the sand and along with the wind and especially the heat must be ever so daunting. I wonder if I could even function in that... I doubt it.

Let us hope for a political climate wherein researchers needn't fear being shot and an academic climate that makes exploration there desirable.

For as I said... the things waiting for us under those sands are no doubt something to hold in perpetual awe.

Peace, man.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wrabbit are you referring to the iron plate found by Hill?

Iron at the pyramid

There were two studies made one thought it was ancient and the latest said it was relatively modern

The structure of the plate is consistent with iron-making in the post-medieval Islamic era.

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Yes Slayer iron found in AE is usually of meteor origin

Well, first let me say right up front...I have no depth to my knowledge on Egyptology. It's a subject I've looked into with a hair more interest than a casual digital tourist but only by a hair.

Great Pyramid's Chamber of Secrets

That door is what had immediately come to mind. That, combined with knowing how treasured the desert climates are in the U.S. for long term storage of equipment and material by Uncle Sam for the pure preservation value of little to no humidity to eat away at everything, one day at a time.

So, it seems to this lay perspective that beneath the bone dry sands may very well lay remarkably preserved ruins and perhaps not so ruined remnants of past times and past peoples. Who knows.. Maybe some entirely new culture no one even speculated on before? It is one of those spots around the world where man hasn't had the ability to look for any length of time yet.

The Saudi Empty Quarter also comes to mind, as does Iran's version of it and their Great Desert. Those spots where time kinda seemed to stop for natural conditions. It's what fires the imagination, eh?

S&F. Good thread. I believe we are currently going through a 'slow vobble' and climate change if you consider the abnormalities in seasonal changes and weather across the globe. It is equally interesting that how vulnerable we really are regardless of the advancement in technology (current or ancient).

Originally posted by Hanslune
I would suspect that a number of cultures both presently unknown or only suspected will be found over the next fifty years as the region at present is difficult to travel in both by the nature of the terrain but the difficulty of the various groups jockeying for control.

My thoughts exactly.

I hope we develop better non-intrusive exploratory tech soon. Hopefully things will calm down soon enough.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yeah the Rub' al Khali is harsh place I took a trip into its eastern edge some years ago but didn't go in more than sixty kilometers.

There might be some interesting things in there....perhaps even 'Irem the City of Pillars' : ]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Hanslune
I would suspect that a number of cultures both presently unknown or only suspected will be found over the next fifty years as the region at present is difficult to travel in both by the nature of the terrain but the difficulty of the various groups jockeying for control.

My thoughts exactly.

I hope we develop better non-intrusive exploratory tech soon. Hopefully things will calm down soon enough.

To a degree but at present the only true way to check places out properly is to line up people (experienced) and do a ground survey sweep then sink pits, technology is great but its sometimes wrong/misleading* and must be targeted.

*While doing such survey work in Cyprus we had access to British aerial photography but found that what looked like a neolithic or bronze age site on the photo often turned out to be natural, while some that looked natural turned out to have been used by PPNB long ago.

This is where satellite archeology and remote imaging
equipment can be a big help I think.

I think many ancient artifacts and even whole cities
are either covered by 50 feet of water
or 50 feet of sand.

Spooky how quickly climate can hide and change things.
Great threads as usual Slayer.

This is a great find! SnF~ Even before reading this article I have always thought what was in that region and all the desert regions prior to all that sand. In my ever so OVER active imagination and even before Ancient Aliens and all the Biblical references, I always wondered if these deserts are remnants of vast civilization's walloped by a WMD of which we currently do not posses... And the Sand is just Crystalized remnants of what was~

But that's just me... Coo Coo? Maybe... But, I've heard of crazier~

reply to post by sulaw


I dunno about Ancient aliens or ancient Civ WMDs but Mother Nature packs a wallop.

Nice find Slayer69 S&F I keep telling folks here and elsewhere that there was a time when there was no Sahara to sub as it was a Kenya like Savannah will post something later on the lakes and rivers that once criss crossed the area.

awesome as ever slayer, there's a reason why you're my fave thread starter!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks for bringing this topic up, it's really interesting.

I do believe a vast amount of information is buried under the sands and we haven't barely tapped into it.

I have been researching about the Songhai Empire and Mali Empire recently and so I find it pretty cool that you are also contemplating the history of this overall region.

There is a lot to learn about these topics and I am always finding out new things!

S&F You always get me wondering, searching & learning!

Yes Vast…
Link: geology.com...

Interesting Radar Remote Sensing Investigation of Sahara
Link: ucec.futureu.edu.sd...

Geo-archaeology & Hydrology of the Sahara
Links: phys.org...
www.saudiaramcoworld.com...

We need a giant vacuum cleaner, Great thread

Greetings.

This is something I discussed before in other threads and I was shunned, like always......
Then, after a couple of months or years, you guys find one piece of evidence and you guys get on board. This is about the 6th time. This is what forced me to become an actual member and not remain a lurker.

For those who may not have been introduced to this particular evidence that remains under the rug, this opens up a myriad of other doors. Along with the harpoons, stone tools, pottery and other good junk.

In my humble opinion, the most important part of this (old) discovery is it can solidify some of the myths and folklore that seems to not be confined by time, or cycles, or dominion. If one carefully examines the culture that surrounds the sahara, one can find striking similarities. Just to make it simple and plain, I would say civilizations/tribes like Kemet(Egypt) or the Dogon or the other civilizations that are recognized but are unnamed (there are quite a few in that region)would equal 1/7 of what I believe to be a greater empire. The civilizations that surround the sahara all have the same practices, and they all have an obsession with Sirius. Each particular Civ is one aspect of what once was an even greater empire. The funny part, for example if a civilization walked away with the medicinal doctrines, and their main practice was medicine, they still possessed adequate knowledge of the stars, time, masonry and universal law (all of the same fashion).

I think people become confused because they expect everything to be so consistent. Even when they are, like the architecture or ancient culture from ethiopia to indonesia we conveniently take the other route. I am saying this to say, I believe this empire was much like the USA is today. California looks completely different than Alabama they have their own laws, but they are under a central government. You can also see our influence in the rest of the "Americas". This is how I believe this empire was.



This is just my take on things. We are on the right track, but our inability to "figure it out" with simple math (1+1=2)is our downfall. We are waiting patiently to announce new discoveries or interpretations of data. We know what were looking at, we have evidence, but we still don't get it?? Its like 1+1+_=3, but we are still waiting for them to announce that the missing link is 1. This is 1 of the things that gets under my skin.
The other is our arrogance. We find stone tools and automatically assume that they were underneath or not as evolved or less intelligent some kind of way. Just think about our tools. The most important ones are made of many different elements, many that would not even stand a chance against a 70,000 year old test. To me its seems so practical and it reflects a more profound intelligence. Yeah, we may have power drills, but apparently they were achieving the same goals without them ( the circular, ultra precise holes, I hope you know what im talking about). So I don't know. They had less and accomplished more by 10 fold( in most areas) and we have "more junk" and less accomplishments. Look at what it took for us to operate on the brain or the heart or look at the rate of successful cesarean operations in the ancient world versus the 'new world'.


Anyway....Great post.
I can't way for the day to have a real open discussion with hanslune and slayer. Not a debate. I believe we all have 3 different pieces to the same puzzle. I will leave with an excerpt from a poem.

No ideas original/ theres nothing new under the sun/ its never what you do/ but how its done.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Nice find! I am actually more interested in the wobble 12000 years ago, that is the same time frame given for the worlds oceans rising by 500 feet. Interesting date!

Atlantis was destroyed around 9650 BC, according to Plato via Solon via the Priests of Sais. Plato is the key source, who recorded the tale in two of his books (Timaeus and Critias) told to him by his grandfather Solon.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...