To design or not to design, my baby. That is the question.

Hi all,

So I was looking for some opinions on an issue I have been tossing around.

I am a father of one and my wife and I are looking to have another child soon. We will only be having one more since two children is our goal. The thing is our first child is a beautiful little girl and we really need our second to be male. This leads me to wonder: Is programming the pregnancy ahead of time to predetermined characteristics wrong?

I was also tossing around the idea of selecting more than just the sex of the child. I have really good genes on my side which I could take advantage of by making them expressed over natural "random " selection.

My wife is not against the idea and neither am I entirely. The thing is I ask myself how my daughter will react to a designer baby brother. I never had to question the balance of genetics s in my family. We all had similar genes on both sides of my family. (Northern Spanish). My wife is Mexican. She has excellent genes as well. I don't want to sound like a eugenics enthusiast but her and my family are not too shabby genetically.

My daughter has become comfortable with a brown skinned, native American mother and a white blue eyed father. She went through the usual phases and questions without much incident.

How will she react to a custom "enhanced " brother though?

I feel shame even considering what I am proposing since I was raised in a traditional Catholic home very much against trans-humanist ideas." Ultra man" in my home was a sin. I am not so strict in my views anymore.

I could live with choosing my child's sex. While I am at it though, why not give him an advantage in life I wonder. We have the means to do so, so why not? Would we inherently treat him differently? Will his sister feel slighted that we did not try to give her the same advantages? Will she see her brother as a freak?

I don't know. We will love our next child regardless. I just want to give him a better chance at excelling in life.

Am I playing God?

My advice to you sir, do not be opposed to the forces of nature .. let it run at the will of God .. pray, hope .. God will give you the best .. because God have wonderful plan for his people..INCLUDING YOU SIR

I like your post. You provide a good argument. I grew up with universalist/unitarian parents and it is an interesting concept to me, however it still creeps me out. The DNA modding doesn't creep me out as much as the thought that doing so will become the normal. I think that I would choose against it in fear that I would be helping to set that standard for the world... Just makes me think of the movie Gattaca. If you haven't seen that movie, I'm sure it will make you change your mind... If that's what you want.

reply to post by tadaman


It's a philosophical discussion because you can't do what you are talking about.

All you can do is fertilize and implant more than one egg then wait until they mature enough to tell the sex, then selectively abort.

Intentionally aborting your progeny kind of takes the joy out of having the child in the first place, right?

So maybe not playing God --but hopefully sticking to human.

Children aren't objects though.

I am not saying stop wanting a boy, nothing wrong with that.
Just try to be cautious with your desires and wants, and don't objectify a person as something that is owned merely for the prospect of owning it.

This also implies that "designing" is also overboard because it is the essence of objectification of a person into mere property.

How would you feel if you were the result of this? Seriously?
I personally would not like the implications.

Originally posted by InverseLookingGlass


All you can do is fertilize and implant more than one egg then wait until they mature enough to tell the sex, then selectively abort.

That is pretty primitive methodology I must say.

They really haven't advanced this beyond that?

I guess I was more right than I realized when I constantly say "This is a very primitive world".

reply to post by cheesy


Thanks for your post. I am a big fan of just letting things play out.

I think my daughter turned out great so I wouldn't be upset either way if I did just go all natural. The thing is I really want a male child since I am the last one to carry our name and that is sort of important to me. I will not have more than two children. That would go against what I feel is responsible breeding for people in my situation. We are a young couple with the means to raise two children well. We still lack the security to raise more to our standard.

So I feel I cant risk it unless I want to be the last to carry my name. My family tends to have more female children than males. I don't know. Maybe some intent and will would help.

thanks again.

reply to post by tadaman


Ethically speaking, if there is nothing life threatening in your gene pool, let nature do its work.

If you have heart problems, for example, running in your family, it would be your duty to do whats in your power to prevent said problems from passing onto your next child.

If your only reasoning behind genetic manipulation is something as superficial as wanting a son, I'd say it's immoral.

reply to post by peacenotgreed


Yeah I feel the same. I am not against it but since we still don't know the consequences of altering what is a natural process I am a little creeped out by everyone under the sun doing it.

Yeah I saw that movie. I liked it when it came out even though every one said it was crap at the time. Interesting dilemma this new ability we have brings to the table.

and that is the thing. We are still coming to term with our new abilities as a civilization and our seemingly out of step values.

EDIT:
I wouldn't be creeped out by being the testing grounds of it though. The same way I wouldn't mind being genetically altered myself to live on mars or something for example. If it benefits mankind, I am all for it.

reply to post by tadaman

The thing is our first child is a beautiful little girl and we really need our second to be male.

Why do you really "need" the second to be a male? (I thought is was preferable for the first to be male) Are you casting your family in a sit-com you're writing?

reply to post by muzzleflash


I cant answer that question. I "think" I would not notice the difference if my parents didn't make a big deal of it.

It is not a philosophical question by the way. The state of current medical knowledge allows for a selection from the genetic background of either parent.

No, don't do it.

It will lead to the ultimate overthrow of the Earth by the augmented sons of your desires. Never forget that "superior ability breeds superior ambition"! They will seize control and enslave the normals among us, with evil tyranny and an unhaltering desire to rule the galaxy. When the normals finally seek to regain control over the Earth, we will lose these ubermensch as they flee into the solar system, and we all know how this will turn out.

They will attempt to return, and with their superior intellect they will out smart even the most ardent of our leaders. Using their disingenuous ways they will enter into our trust and from within they will sabotage our peaceful work.

Before you know it, it will be Benedict Cumberbatch with his elusive ship shooting up innocent admirals and captains, and all because YOU, sir, YOU wanted a better baby..



The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few.

Oo

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


I see what you are saying. I am not a vain person and my motivation is not for "looks" and sex alone. I wonder about selecting from my genetic background so as to provide a (and here comes the relative term) "better" chance for my child by giving him some advantages.

For example:

On my mothers side we have native canary islands genes. I could give my child the musculature and bone structure of them which is pretty robust. On my wife`s side her skin pigmentation is more resilient to the sun than mine and her family is better adapted to high altitudes and need less oxygen than us.

ect.

I don't know if those exact genes can be identified but if they could be, WHY NOT?

WHY not give him a stronger skeletal structure, more robust musculature. Why not make him more resilient to the environment around him. If you could enhance certain parts of the brain because in your family you had a tenancy to have very developed frontal lobes, or what ever.

Why not take advantage of what is already there? I would not be adding anything unproven, just intervening in the mixture of my wife`s and my genetic backgrounds combining. Less random and more precise.

reply to post by winofiend


Yes, but lets not forget the exploits of a certain genetically enhanced doctor on a certain deep space station orbiting a worm hole. He was a credit to his production line.

reply to post by windword


I explained that if not my name ends with me. It is important to me for reasons I can not talk about over an internet forum.

No male = no one to carry on the family name.


Some may say it is vanity but to a traditional Spanish family it is not. It is a cultural issue really.

reply to post by tadaman

My advice to you is to let Mother Nature take her course. What you want doesn't matter.

reply to post by intrptr



That is true too.



I will consider every ones post here, even the star trek reference, lol.

Thanks for your time everyone. It is not any easier but I feel I made some progress on the issue for today.

I will check back tomorrow to see if there is anymore advice.

reply to post by tadaman


All I can say is..."this world is becoming a very scary place to live in".

reply to post by tadaman

God invented DNA that can actually be modified, maybe it is God's will that we enhance ourselves spiritually, artistically, mentally and genetically

I often hear theories that aliens modified our dna to make us more stupid and docile which could very well be true. Are aliens, those supposed gods, the ones that want us to be and stay under-evolved? So, maybe we are suppose to live up to our genetic potential like the true God of existence wanted.

I feel scared too, I can't deny it. Something inside me says I would be jealous of an "enhanced" human.

Humans are flawed to no end, maybe things would change if we we're all smarter. Of course nothing is ever perfect but that doesn't mean we must not aim towards perfection.

I answer to your question OP, differently than others, go for it if you feel like it. You are not modifying a soul, only a vehicle. Let others, and myself, be jealous if that's the only martyr we must endure towards evolution.

Originally posted by winofiend
No, don't do it.

It will lead to the ultimate overthrow of the Earth by the augmented sons of your desires. Never forget that "superior ability breeds superior ambition"! They will seize control and enslave the normals among us, with evil tyranny and an unhaltering desire to rule the galaxy. When the normals finally seek to regain control over the Earth, we will lose these ubermensch as they flee into the solar system, and we all know how this will turn out.

They will attempt to return, and with their superior intellect they will out smart even the most ardent of our leaders. Using their disingenuous ways they will enter into our trust and from within they will sabotage our peaceful work.

Before you know it, it will be Benedict Cumberbatch with his elusive ship shooting up innocent admirals and captains, and all because YOU, sir, YOU wanted a better baby..

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few.

Oo

Whoa dude, although you went a little overboard with the sensationalist rhetoric I have to say I sort of agree with you for once. You are joking right because since when have we actually agreed on anything?