Schiff: 2/3 of America to Lose Everything Because of This Crisis

Originally posted by Observationalist
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread952951/pg1#pid16522817]post by Wrabbit2000[url]

 

Please, how do we hunker down, how does one come through this without relying on the government for help.
That is the end game of all this. We will be so desperate that we will beg for some help.

Is owning property the answer, or will the government grab that up too.
How about guns, can we really make a difference by force, the government is taking guns too.
How about voting, ha ha ha. We know they have control over that.
How about technology, can we discover or invent something that will drive the market again.

Thanks for the info Wrabbit. Never mind my rant, Just frustrated.

Once the economy collapses irreparably, so does the government. They know this and are alreit.dy taking action to ensure that you remain dependent.. There is plenty of land and land is all you need. But we want other things. To get other things, you need an organizational structure, that is, society. To have a society, you need order and for that,you need government. So as long as we are consumers, we will give away our sovereignty, independence, freedom, and power. What is collapsing here, I think is not so much the economy as it is the regulatory agency responsible for maintaining our medium of exchange, the dollar. Once the dollar becomes worthless, as it will, the government will be exposed for its incompetent failure. The only power they will have, then, will be a compliant military force vs. a hopefully disarmed population and they know it. Unfortunately for them, it will not go according to plan.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by EA006

 

Going by that? The short answer is..... Who knows?? The last were isolated to nations, for the most part. Singular at a time. The outside world helped in large part, so the bounce at the bottom wasn't fatal. As another post said, when the U.S. goes down, so does much of the world economy by the sheer interconnected design of modern economics. It's nothing US-focused as much as just the "Global Village" we've all become for total inter dependency. There ARE a couple nations which are in better shape. MUCH better shape...but they won't have much interest in helping the Western nations, I imagine.


(Source)

That's a bit dated with last year and most of the numbers have changed quite a bit. Most for the worse, I'm afraid. It gives a basic idea of world layout for the debt scene though.

Russia is near debt free because they already had their crash and a HARD crash it was. Also, largely, by runaway debt as became apparent in the year or two before they tanked.

In shiffs own words/anology he said;


So basicly the US is a drag for everyone else. And when gone, the money flows back to others.

Originally posted by Observationalist
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Please, how do we hunker down, how does one come through this without relying on the government for help.
That is the end game of all this. We will be so desperate that we will beg for some help.

Is owning property the answer, or will the government grab that up too.
How about guns, can we really make a difference by force, the government is taking guns too.
How about voting, ha ha ha. We know they have control over that.
How about technology, can we discover or invent something that will drive the market again.

Thanks for the info Wrabbit. Never mind my rant, Just frustrated.

The Founders of America posed the same question when they realized that they would have to fight against the largest, most powerful military force the world had ever seen (at the time). They knew that by signing the Declaration of Independence that they were signing their own death warrants, much like Edward Snowden knew that he was signing his when he released the NSA info. How did a bunch of farmers and academics beat the British Military and gain liberty and freedom from tyranny and oppression? They banded together... found common interests and causes, and then put their complete faith and trust in GOD... the last line of the Declaration states "with firm reliance on the protection of divine providence..." They knew that they could not do it alone, and that only divine providence and divine intervention would save them. All you can do is resist tyranny until you take your last breath, but what happens to you here on this Earth is of no consequence... what happens to your soul is of GREAT consequence. John 16:33 "In this world you will face tribulation, but be of good cheer... I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD." Those are the words of Jesus Christ, and that is good enough for me.

reply to post by Plugin


That is a great illusion to hang onto. How people figure the world will somehow improve with the United States collapsing in it. An illusion is all that is. Now, I'm talking short term. As in years. Long term? The US HAS gotten too powerful and so have a couple other nations. That isn't very healthy for the world and balance needs to be found.

Short term though? Your currency in Europe is based on nothing more than ours is. Perceptions. Nothing but perception of value. When perceptions shift or fall as a whole on any one major currency, they all follow it down. Yours could fall first for all the difference it makes. If the Euro were to totally collapse, it would draw the U.S. down with it as quick as the Dollar will for Europe.

Isn't it just something to be part of a hopelessly interconnected global village? Our fortunes and futures all rise or fall together. By pure math and math alone? We're all falling and nothing at this point can stop that. The question is only how hard, when it starts for real and how long it lasts until meaningful reconstruction begins across the 'industrialized' world.

You know the ironic thing? The old song is true. 'Freedom is just another way of saying you have nothing left to lose'.

The 3rd world and below will weather the coming storm far better than any "advanced" nation will. They have little to lose to know the difference for anything having changed ...and so will suffer the least in the dark years to come.

What is the going rate for property in Kenya?

Are you kidding? Cut your way to prosperity? I can solve the problem but no rep or dem will do it. It's easy. Stop foreign aid and stop corporate subsidies. Do oil companies really need public money? They have the largest profits of any company in the world. Never hear that mentioned though. Hmmmm

reply to post by Observationalist

Please, how do we hunker down, how does one come through this without relying on the government for help. That is the end game of all this. We will be so desperate that we will beg for some help.

Learn how to survive on your own buddy. You don't need uncle sam babysitting you. If the majority of people in USA need the government to survive then your all pathetic and deserve what is coming to you. Get out and go learn something... I mean damn they already sell water purifiers (there got your water just find a lake or a creek) Learn how to fish and hunt (there is your food) Well if you are a vegetarian your screwed.

reply to post by damwel


You're assuming for a moment that we're looking at a system where *ANY* action leads to prosperity. That outcome is a dead issue and has been, likely, since before Bush came to office. Clinton started things the right way, but even then? Well..... It COULD have still be turned when debt was in single digit trillions and compounding interest wasn't a time bomb of Tsar Bomba proportion, waiting to blow us all to hell.

At this point? It's not about cutting our way to prosperity. It's about cutting across the board, on everything...by choice and with control of the process OR LOSING large portions of everything, across the board, by force of economics and mathematical reality. Either outcome is painful. One is survivable, while the other is not, as a nation and economy.

I'd prefer to take the pain of draconian cuts by choice and under some control. I'd deal with the sacrifice somehow and learn to live in the new reality of MUCH less to life, so long as I could see and know it was a shared sacrifice that went from the homeless shelter to 1600 Penn Ave. This crap of 'You folks sacrifice while we throw blow out parties' we're being sold now? Oh... No... That's where revolts come from and the whole meaning behind the saying 'Let them eat cake' becoming immortal words. Literally, as it happened in history.

reply to post by Observationalist

The problem with property is that a) most of it is leveraged meaning borrowed money and if the cost of money (interest rates) increases then the value of property will have a tendency to go lower. At some point the lower dollar will result in higher valuations (inflation) but that is because of the currency not demand. Also, the government (mostly local govt in this case) has the power to tax. "The power to tax is the power to destroy" and the government can increase property taxes (not to mention excise wealth taxes for a second home, taxes/penalties for not being green or energy efficient enough or even sales taxes) on your property. Property tax increases will certainly be one of the first things that local municipalities turn to when their cash flow dwindles.

BTW... To assist a bit in general? I've found the phenomenon of compounding interest is a very poorly understood thing. That's no surprise and it's intentional. The rich would prefer it not be a common knowledge item because it is, quite literally, the keys to their success in a very real way. The Government would prefer people not consider it because we might ask uncomfortable questions like...what WOULD happen if we had a personal, named account with a balance assigned TO US for Social Security? Questions without honest answers they're willing to give. It also would raise near impossible issues to address to the public regarding the national debt and the heart of why, whatever we do at this point, the crash is coming. It may be 6 months and it may be 6 years. It's coming though and math leaves no other way out.



It wasn't until a couple years ago the U.S. Government even publicly acknowledged that compound interest WAS a factor by finally admitting that yes, the interest due on the national debt is, in large part, rolled back INTO the debt each year. As the above chart shows, this makes for a self sustaining, downward spiral at an exponential rate. How fast? Well, exponential is a bitch to calculate when the variables are not known (no formal budget in this nation... (sigh) ) or they are subject to change on a regular basis (debt ceiling limit changes)

However, we can look at one thing which is informative to this topic.



^^ That is the spreadsheet version of the U.S. Federal Budget. It's something I've posted before and comes from the White House/OMB 2012 fy proposed budget with both historic and projected numbers accounted for. It's been sorted and cropped to be manageable in size ( The full document takes Excel over a minute just to load on my system) and it's sorted from highest to lowest on the right side year column.

Second from the Top line is your item of interest, no pun intended, and therein lay our doom....even if we weren't running damn near 2 trillion in funny money debt per year on top of it right now. (counting the Fed debt buying). It's precisely why the National Debt continued to rise even while Clinton had the National Deficit is true surplus in his final few years.

Peter Schiff missed one economic model that is keeping it allllll going.

You poison the population making them sick. Generate all the money and jobs as those souls writhing in pain hock everything to get medications...eventually killing themselves when they've spent everything....

There's 7 Billion people on the planet wanting to come into America, get them in..repeat process. Poison them, they sell and hock everything to get medications.....end up killing themselves or dying in pain.

Repeat process until extinction.


THAT'S the economic model they've been using the last few decades keeping the EMPIRE going. It's ugly....but it WORKS. There's NO WAY the population of the planet will figure out what they've done. Even if they do....see Step 1.....poison the population.....

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Observationalist

 

Your message and choice of words brought my mind back to this with a sharp pull. It's been posted before. It's not worthy of another thread of it's very own. Still.... It's important, in my view, to keep the words fresh and the message clear in our minds.

This is the extended version. The original re-mix ends on a ....down note. This one ends with Hope. REAL hope...not 'Hopey Changey' type hope.

I also don't mind telling you, this always chokes me up just a little bit in a couple spots. I'll leave it to you to guess which. They are specific segments for that.

Keep in mind, he spoke these words in a movie released in October of 1940. For such a timely message, it's origin is amazing, isn't it?

Just remember....the world has been through this before. It survived. It will survive what comes now. It won't be easy and it won't be pretty but what comes after will be better. History tells us, it always is. We have to hang onto that, no matter what comes to pass in the dark times. It will eventually end, for a new start. It always has.

The vid although apropos to the discussion is meaningless because masses can be manipulated into one thought leading to mass control. As long as TPTB has the power to affect / effect the masses, any uprising by the unelected (violent or otherwise) is doomed to fail. History keeps repeating itself.

Unless of course the one leading the masses is incorruptible. But as it is - man is imperfect and corruptible and as they say "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

reply to post by Pervius


Ummm... If they've been poisoning the population to reduce it for a couple decades? They need fired. They're no damn good at it. lol

Last I checked, global and regional populations ..in ALMOST all global regions.. are still cooking right along and expanding like our national debt. At an exponential rate. Even China keeps growing, despite their near draconian policies on reproduction.

I don't see what you are for anything like that being done. We're sick more and more..yes. Look at the ingredients of what we eat sometime and tell me how many things you need a chemistry book to fully understand the nature of. That is what's tearing us up, in my opinion. No conspiracy there. Just greed and the ever growing drive to deliver what people 'want' at lower prices and higher profits.

The fact we're dying from it just makes for an unintended consequence. The growing birth rates seem to balance that to the net positive though, to a whole different kind of doom we face in the long term.

Thanks for the info Wrabbit! Still, this is not anything new around these circles. People have been going back and forth about the inevitable currancy collapse for years on here. If and when this happens? It will make the Collapse of 2008 feel like a Swedish massage. It will be an economic catastrophe unlike anything the world has ever endured. We are talking about a global reserve currancy taking the dirt nap. In other words, it will not be regional, but a global catastrophe. So, yes, the quantitative easing, manipulating interest rates, trillion dollar bailouts, and the ever expansive national deficit is a witch's brew for not only economic extinction in the United States, but the world over as well.



Ready for MadMax Beyond the Federal Reserve? I guess we know why the Department of Homeland Security is buying up all that ammunition.

1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security? It's Time For A National Conversation

Then we catch wind about this gargantuan domestic surveillance network set up under our noses, and under the veil thwarting international terrorism.

NSA aftershocks: Leak inspires lawsuit, letters of protest

So, those points mentioned before could just be my imaginative mind going off on a tangent? Or, perhaps we are getting a bird's eye view of the Federal Government's contingency measures when the gravy train with biscuit wheels seizes to exist? The Good Shepherd (the Federal Government) is about to cull the flock. Batten down the hatches folks, because this is going to be one hell of a ride!

In moving forward, the decision becomes what do I save money for? What priorities change.
Before it was saving up to buy a house, or a new car.

If the dollar is dying do we spend it all now, on what? on camping supplies, food reserves,
taking care of medical issues, education.

Getting out of debt become the top priority for most I would assume. That is the top for me right now.

But for those who have a savings, what do they do, when do you pull out of the market?
Do you take out all your money from the bank, Do you tap into the 401k?

Good stuff wrabbit. I always enjoy your threads. You always back up your information with well researched and put together facts.

Unfortunately the facts that you present in this thread are very bleak... All of which I've been brooding over for quite some time (I believe you may have even introduced me to these problems with one of your great threads a year or so ago). I feel like not enough people worry about the issues of our economy and spend more time worrying about useless stuff. Even here on ATS, you will see people going on and on about some useless conspiracy like Obama's birth certificate. They dump hours of their free time into researching these conspiracies when they could be better using their time to research a real problem that is going to effect them a lot more than if Obama is a natural born citizen or not.

I have spent much time going over scenarios of how this will play out and I fear every one. The way I see it, the last time that the world saw massive corruption of the elite in an empire, consolidation of all the wealth, military power run a muck, the masses being kept complicit through social programs and minute distractions, and more parallels; was the Roman Empire. After that empire fell, the Dark Ages rose from the ashes. This is what I fear more than the coming calamity, what will take the place of our governments after the calamity has done the most damage. It took humanity close to a millennium to crawl out of those dark times.

That's because Schiff put all his eggs in the Obama fails basket.
So when Obama doesn't fail and the stockmarket reaches all time highs
it must be because collapse is eminent.
The sky is falling !


Schiff is a master of separating you from your hardworking 30% tax bracket middle class
rights.
"Watch what this hand doing while I tell you about impending doom and socialism
taking over. Oh and please don't watch the other hand. Thats reserved for my 1% billionaire
buddies who think paying 14% in taxes is too much."

reply to post by edmc^2


Let me see if i've understood this properly...

The banks say they are going to collapse unless the country bails them out to the tune of Trillions, because they are felt to be 'too big to be allowed to fail'...which in turn causes the collapse of small businesses, medium businesses, large businesses all over the country and to cap it off, it looks as though the entire country is going to collapse...my question is, how is it that the banks are considered 'too big to fail', but not the entire country?

Take the money back from the banks, either in full (collapsing the bank) or order all banks that had their hands out, to pay the money back at a rate of 50% of their total annual profits.

If it's a choice between the banks or the country collapsing, the banks have GOT to go.

reply to post by MysterX

If it's a choice between the banks or the country collapsing, the banks have GOT to go.

Bank CEO's are a bit hard to defend. Banks are made up of 100's of thousands of Americans working and pulling a paycheck for, among other things, keeping retirement and municipal accounts in proper order and functioning. Reform is needed. Perhaps (likely even) destructive reform. However, destruction of the industry?

I think I'd prefer looking at the Politicians of both the red and blue variety who built the system and regulations the banks exist in. If the banks are out of control, I've yet to see how that's actually illegal......and therein lay the problem. It should be and by that, not happened in the first place. The fact it could and did rests in one place. It isn't Wall Street. It's Washington. Until reform comes there in meaningful ways that cost most of the current office holders their jobs? Any other reforms will be sabotaged and doomed to fail before they begin, IMO.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Good stuff wrabbit. I always enjoy your threads. You always back up your information with well researched and put together facts.

Unfortunately the facts that you present in this thread are very bleak... All of which I've been brooding over for quite some time (I believe you may have even introduced me to these problems with one of your great threads a year or so ago). I feel like not enough people worry about the issues of our economy and spend more time worrying about useless stuff. Even here on ATS, you will see people going on and on about some useless conspiracy like Obama's birth certificate. They dump hours of their free time into researching these conspiracies when they could be better using their time to research a real problem that is going to effect them a lot more than if Obama is a natural born citizen or not.

I have spent much time going over scenarios of how this will play out and I fear every one. The way I see it, the last time that the world saw massive corruption of the elite in an empire, consolidation of all the wealth, military power run a muck, the masses being kept complicit through social programs and minute distractions, and more parallels; was the Roman Empire. After that empire fell, the Dark Ages rose from the ashes. This is what I fear more than the coming calamity, what will take the place of our governments after the calamity has done the most damage. It took humanity close to a millennium to crawl out of those dark times.

Unfortunately - our situation can't be compared to the Fall of the Roman Empire in that we have nukes and other WMD's (biological) at the hands of the powerful people and sadly at the hands of extremists bent on destroying the Western civilization (which they see as a threat to their way of life).

So in short - it's a global villages! What ails one affects the rest.

Originally posted by sealing
That's because Schiff put all his eggs in the Obama fails basket.
So when Obama doesn't fail and the stockmarket reaches all time highs
it must be because collapse is eminent.
The sky is falling !


Schiff is a master of separating you from your hardworking 30% tax bracket middle class
rights.
"Watch what this hand doing while I tell you about impending doom and socialism
taking over. Oh and please don't watch the other hand. Thats reserved for my 1% billionaire
buddies who think paying 14% in taxes is too much."

Do you honestly believe that our economy is a healthy growing economy? The collapse may or may not be imminent, but that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. The stock market is posting record highs (thanks in most part to QE infinity) while job growth, wages, and purchasing power continues to stagnate or grow very slowly. How can you not see anything wrong with the fact that the stock market is showing unprecedented economic growth meanwhile main street hasn't even recovered to pre-crash conditions? This is creating an unbalanced situation and making the economy rather top-heavy.

By the way, how can Obama fail when he never actually promised anything? I remember both campaigns of his and he ran on the shallowest platform I've ever seen from a presidential candidate. During his first campaign he basically ran on the idea that he isn't Bush and that we should all just pray that our problems will go away. His second one was just as shallow and basically highlighted what he had done while downplaying the real crises in the country (or lying about them like Benghazi).

To get back on topic, the US economy and as an extension the world economy is going to fail. Just because it may not happen by the end of the year doesn't make it any more dire or threatening. In fact the longer these shills in power manage to keep it propped up, the worse the crash is going to be.