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The Zimmerman Trial

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posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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I haven't read through all 95 pages of this thread. Maybe this question has already been asked. If TM was that afraid of that "creepy ass-cracker" GZ, why didn't he just go to his father's house after he initially evaded Zimmerman after GZ lost sight of him, instead of confronting GZ again?




posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
If some punk attacks me I will shoot as well. Self-defense is part of the law if you don’t like it go start your own country.

AMEN.
and 2nd Amendment rights are a different subject than this trial.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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The only reason this trial is being so well aired, and so publicized is to avoid covering the nsa scandals, the irs scandals, the benghazi scandals, the budget, the sequester and everything else the government is destroying. give the mindless masses something entertaining and they will forget it all.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Basically the same thing I said about a reasonable belief that your life is in danger.

That by showing the injuries to be minor, there was no threat to Zimmerman's life. Therefor the escalation to deadly force is not justified.

I refer you to this post
 
as to my original thoughts and words.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


If you are getting your head beat in wouldn't you feel your life was in danger? Do you really think you are aware how minor your head wounds are?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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WHY is she giving full medical opinion based just on photographs?
Oh ... now I see .... she's had some complaints about her work ...

Jacksonville Medical Examiner Complaints

Jacksonville Medical Examiner Valerie Rao has been the subject of recurring complaints from her co-workers dating back to 2009. According to letters sent to the the city, "Rao has been seen touching cadavers with her bare hands, washing her feet in the autopsy sink, and performing unnecessary autopsies on inmates to create a revenue stream."

Channel 4's learned that Rao actually has a history of complaints dating back 10 years, while she was Medical Examiner for Citrus, Hernando, Lake, Marion and Sumter counties. Dr. Rao was the Medical Examiner there from 2000 to 2003.

Channel 4 uncovered the minutes from the Medical Examiner's Commission meeting on May 15, 2003, that revealed concerns about Rao from funeral homes, organ donor organizations and law enforcement agencies.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

She just contradicted herself.


Not really, you are missing the big picture here. Let me explain....


The defense got her to say that Zimmerman easily could have had his head hit into the concrete multiple times and that it didn't leave marks.


Now think about this... if it didn't leave marks, how hard was it hit on the concrete? If it did not leave marks, or caused superficial, non life threatening injuries, the justification of deadly force goes out the window.


Ditto with being hit on the head with a fist. So her cross examine testimony is going the opposite direction a bit.


Again, not really. Are these hits to the head life threatening? If you answer no to this question, the justification of deadly force goes out the window.

The prosecution is very subtly taking apart the defense's claim of self defense. If you can find it, go back and read my post about the use of force in regards to self defense. You can only use as much force to eliminate the threat. You can not use deadly force if there is no threat to your life.

I think you will understand more of what I am trying to say when the Prosecution makes their closing statements. That is typically when all these subtle dots are put together to create a full picture.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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The ME Doctor Lady just admitted that trying to do this just with photographs is very unscientific.
So why is she on? Oh that's right .... prosecution hired gun. NEXT WITNESS PLEASE.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


It was posted earlier in this thread the legal terminology…No idea where but I will look.

Anyway the gist of it was that you do not need to wait till your life is in peril due to injuries. There is no legal definition for how bad you need to be beaten to defend yourself. You do not have to wait till your injuries are life threatening. The lead investigator even said that.

All of that aside Zimmerman said that Martin went for his gun which is more than adequate for him to use deadly force.

Also try to remember you are watching the same MSM network that played doctored tapes.

I understand te point you are making but that isn’t what the law states.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
Are these hits to the head life threatening? If you answer no to this question, the justification of deadly force goes out the window.

It doesn't matter if they are life threatening or not. What matters if the person getting hit reasonably believes that it was life threatening. That's the law anyways. And how do we prove that Zimmerman didn't really believe his life was in danger? WHen you are the one getting beaten up ... things look different than they do for us here a year later talking about it ... ya' know??

This could have been a really good witness for the prosecution.
She started out gangbusters! But I think the defense has neutralized much (not all) of her testimony.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 




washing her feet in the autopsy sink

HUH?
Wonder why.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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I'm wondering why the defense didn't bring up all the problems that people have had with this ME? All the complaints by co-workers and police and funeral homes and the rest. She's been accused of doing a lot of unprofessional stuff over the past 10 years. I figured they'd bring it up at the start when she was rattling off her credentials.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by thesaneone
 


Do you realize the medical examiner is testifying that his head is NOT being beaten in.

Don't shoot the messenger here, I am simply explaining the testimony and what it means to the trial. The best way I can explain this is to use the OJ murder trial or the Casey Anthony trial as examples. In both those trials many people were outraged that they were found not guilty. The thing is.... they should have been found not guilty. In both these cases, the prosecution failed. Yet so many people watched it and thought otherwise because they failed to understand the "legalese".

"Legalese" is a unique language and it is something that a lot of people simply do not understand. Juries understand it, because it is pounded into their head during the course of a trial and during deliberations. This "legalese" is how Casey Anthony was defended. This "legalese" is how OJ walked.


le·gal·ese (lg-lz, -ls) n. The specialized vocabulary of the legal profession, especially when considered to be complex or abstruse.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



washing her feet in the autopsy sink

HUH? Wonder why.

Yeah I saw that. Why would an ME wash her feet in the autopsy sink. I mean ... not only is it very unprofessional but ... YUK ... ya' know? Wouldn't she be wearing shoes while doing autopsies and wouldn't the tables catch any blood or body fluids that leaked out?? I can't imagine why ... I don't want to imagine why ...



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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defence -you know htere is an edge of the cement right?
med examiner -its possible

hahaha



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Basically the same thing I said about a reasonable belief that your life is in danger.

That by showing the injuries to be minor, there was no threat to Zimmerman's life. Therefor the escalation to deadly force is not justified.

I refer you to this post
 
as to my original thoughts and words.



www.abovetopsecret.com...


O’Mara noted, however, that in fact the extent of injuries
don’t matter for purposes of self-defense, and Serino agreed. “In fact,”
observed O’Mara,” we don’t need to see life-threatening injuires, not any
injuries, dow we?” “No, sir,” answered Serino.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



www.abovetopsecret.com...


782.02. Justifiable use of deadly force First up is the admirably brief 782.02. Justifiable use of deadly force, which states: The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be. Note those words: “resisting any attempt”. You need not wait until the harmful act has been completed, or has even begun its application. You are permitted to use deadly force under the circumstances described to resist even a mere attempt to murder you or to commit a felony upon your person or upon your home where you shall be. Any requirement that you first suffer disabling injury? No. Any requirement that you first suffer trauma sufficient to cause bruises that last longer than a day, or even half a day? No. Any requirement that you first suffer so much as the slightest scratch of your skin? No, no, no. 776.012 Use of force in defense of person What then of what most people first think of when they look to Florida’s deadly-force self-defense statute, 776.012. Use of force in defense of person, another admirably brief statute. It provides in relevant part; [A] person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony . . . Again, note those words: “to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm”. Again, the intent of the legislature, and our own common sense, can read such language in only one way–you may lawfully act in self-defense in prevention of death or grave bodily harm, and without any requirement that you first suffer some death or great bodily harm.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I don't think her head was the one getting beat in. It is just her opinion as she has said explained by posts from above.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
It was posted earlier in this thread the legal terminology…No idea where but I will look.

Anyway the gist of it was that you do not need to wait till your life is in peril due to injuries. There is no legal definition for how bad you need to be beaten to defend yourself. You do not have to wait till your injuries are life threatening. The lead investigator even said that.


No there is no legal definition for how bad, but that is the point where legal precedence and case law now comes into play.

Something people don't ever see on these trials is that when the jury goes into deliberations, they are given instructions which helps to guide them through the process and they are given the arguments to evaluate. It is not as simple as walking into a room and discussing and deciding what to do. There is a whole process that takes place. It is not as simple as "read the law and decide".


All of that aside Zimmerman said that Martin went for his gun which is more than adequate for him to use deadly force.


Absolutely. You are correct, but we have not seen any such testimony yet. However that does not mean we wont. Right now, even though for some it does not seem like it, this is the prosecution's case. We still have the defense's presentation to go through, so this is something we just may see. However I have a feeling that will come down to weather or not they believe George Zimmerman, as there are no witnesses that we are aware of to the actual shot being fired or the second prior to the shot being fired. In other words, no witnesses to the act of Trayvon Martin reaching for Zimmerman's gun, but that's just my sense. Like I said, the defense still has to present their case and maybe they do have such a witness.


Also try to remember you are watching the same MSM network that played doctored tapes.

I am watching the case and basing my opinions on what I am seeing. Not what they TV is telling me. I just found it humorous that the talking head on TV validated everything I said on the issue.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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So, George has been writing all his fantasies down in his course work? Did he cover the role of judge, jury and executioner?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I get what you are saying however the state just introduced the interview with Hannity where Zimmerman stated that he though Martin was going for his gun so in fact that has been introduced.

The state has kind of screwed up by introducing so many statements by Zimmerman because now he probably does not need to take the stand. His statements are a matter of record now.

There is a bit of uproar about it here on the radio.



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