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The Zimmerman Trial

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posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I don't have to know 100 percent. We are talking about a trial. There is only evidence to suggest Trayvon his Zimmerman. There is no evidence that Zimmerman hit Trayvon. If there is no evidence that Zimmerman hit Trayvon then there is certainly no evidence Zimmerman hit first.

Get it? Innocent until proven guilty. It's impossible to prove him guilty.




posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal
 


I agree Trayvon wasn't scared. I ask you though, If he wasn't scared then why did he run?


I notice Mr Wendal that you didn't answer this. I have no need to answer anything else until you explain this.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by WonderBoi
 

I don't know why the person that made the thread is the least informed, but this whole incident happened in only a few minutes. He did put in a simple call to the police, I actually think the dispatch kept him on the phone a long time and asked him for a lot of info leading Zimmerman to look for Martin after he inexpliably ran. So maybe it's time to move past repeating the same questions over and over after we've answered them.

I'll even give you that Zimmerman is guilty of making a stupid decision, but not breaking any crimes. You said He's guilty of being stupid, believe that if you want, but he's not guilty of a crime.
edit on 29-6-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)


Look, no reasonable person would have left the clear safety of their vehicle at the moment George did, to go "keeping an eye on" a suspicious person in an area that was unlit, even if a dispatcher told you to do so, or even asked you politely to go and do so. But, we know from the nen call that such a thing never entered the dispatcher's head, and George got out of his vehicle without any prompting, bar that of Trayvon's fleeing figure.

Even a reasonable person who'd had mma training and was carrying a gun would clearly understand the inherent threat potential of going walking into a darkened area where you last saw what you believed could be a burglar who might have had something in his waistband. Just because George "lost him" that doesn't mean it was his civic duty to find him again. There are professionals trained to do that job.
edit on 30-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by dudeman351
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Dude you need to take off those rose colored glasses and take a hard look at reality. Trayvon Martin was a thug that was involved in illegal activities and drugs. Face it he was a felon in the making. Its a good thing he was taken off the streets before he actually killed someone.

Dude, do you even lift? At the age of 13 I had my first court appearance for burgling the next-door neighbour and got 3 weeks in a remand home for assessment. My first night in that place saw me get the # beat out of me in my bed, My mattress was then picked up off the bed with me on it and then placed on the floor while several fellow criminals urinated all over me. The next night I started fighting back and my time in there got a lot easier. Almost a year after getting out, I was back in the same place, this time looking at being away from home until I was 18, or 16 if I had a job to go to. I was 16 and 3 mths when I got out. A year later, I was doing 3 years in big boys jail for violence offences. So, when it comes to knowing about 17 yr old thugs, I'm very familiar with how they behave, as I was one. 33 years later, I still haven't killed anyone, but it's not because I couldn't, it's because I never wanted to in any of the fights I was involved in. By yours and others reckoning, I deserve to be dead, and you can understand how I might object to that, can't you?

Originally posted by dudeman351
Yes George Zimmerman wasn't squeaky clean, but he passed a NICS background check to buy his PF-9. Plus he passed an FDLE background check and a finger print check with the FBI to get his CCL. They don't give concealed carry licenses to criminals.

That doesn't mean that legitimate gun owners can't become criminals.

Originally posted by dudeman351
Did Trayvon pass a background check for his SW40VE? No his mother made a straw purchase for him being he was under 18 and couldn't purchase one himself. Now ask yourself what was a 17 yo going to do with a .40 S&W pistol? My feelings are it was not going to be legal. Plus his mother should be investigated by the ATF for said straw purchase. If it wasn't for police corruption, thug life would have a felony on his record and not legally able to posses a firearm or ammo, not that it would have mattered to him much.

Why are you denying Trayvon's right to have lived the American Dream of being able to own a firearm without being thought badly of? Is gun ownership looked upon differently when the hands holding the guns are black?



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal
 


That is absolutely ignorant. Jumping to assault if you view the other person as any sort of threat? A person that hasn't been within' ten feet of you? Hasn't said a word to you?

You don't know that's how it happened. You're also ignoring the fact that Trayvon had several opportunities to act confrontational towards George, but instead, by George's own admission, "he ran." On the streets, as long as you don't make the step forward, anyone who enters punching range in circumstances like Trayvon was facing, is fair game. If George hangs back and tries to reassure you he is not hostile, you listen, but you don't drop your guard.
edit on 30-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by JuniorDisco
 

My god .. are you still on that?
Dude .. black people can be racist and/or bigoted.
Hate is hate. Just deal with that REALITY already Geeeeze ....





Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
I don't have to know 100 percent. We are talking about a trial.

EXACTLY.
The state has to show that Zimemrman is guilty BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.
So far, the only thing the state has shown is lots and lots of doubt about guilt.

The only hope for the state is that if the bullet forensics show that Martin was shot from a distance.
A distance of at least five feet. Not that he COULD be shot from five feet away. But that he was.
That would mean Martin was running away and Zimemrman chased him down to shoot him.
Otherwise ... if there is even a possibility that Martin was shot close up ... then that backs the
sworn testimony of John Good that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pounding the snot out of him.

So far ... lots and lots of reasonable doubt.
No solid evidence for Murder 2 conviction.
Waiting on gun powder residue testimony.


edit on 6/30/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Sure they would. If they were trying to help 911 and they never planned on getting close to the person (and had their gun in case the person started advancin on them. Unfortunately Martin was able to sneak up on George.. I think Georges intentions and reality are way different then what you think his intentions and reality were. I don't think he ever planned on contacting Martin, he was just trying to be helpful to police. People have painted him as a blood thirsty sociopath (especially the media) but it think it's opposite the truth.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


As I have asked MrWendel twice now. If Trayvon wasn't scared then why did he run only to confront Zimmerman later? Why did he run if he wasn't afraid? What was the motivation? No one seems to want to answer that,



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Going by the injuries you've seen and heard about, and how long it took Trayvon to infllict them(around 20 seconds plus if we are to believe the screams were George's), do you really believe Trayvon was doing an efficient job of beating the snot out of George? This goes towards whether George had any other option than shooting Trayvon. Would you be happy if your son had got into such a situation and a) if he was George, had shot the guy who'd attacked him when he was no longer attacking him, or b) if he was Trayvon, had been shot like a rabid dog without even being given the opportunity to start acting reasonably? Remember, the independently documented evidence of the nen call points to George seeking out Trayvon, not the other way round.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Sure they would. If they were trying to help 911 and they never planned on getting close to the person (and had their gun in case the person started advancin on them. Unfortunately Martin was able to sneak up on George.. I think Georges intentions and reality are way different then what you think his intentions and reality were. I don't think he ever planned on contacting Martin, he was just trying to be helpful to police. People have painted him as a blood thirsty sociopath (especially the media) but it think it's opposite the truth.


He did NOT "sneak up on George." He did the exact opposite of that and gave George the chance to turn aroud before he attacked, if you want to believe George's say so.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


As I have asked MrWendel twice now. If Trayvon wasn't scared then why did he run only to confront Zimmerman later? Why did he run if he wasn't afraid? What was the motivation? No one seems to want to answer that,


Who is saying he wasn't scared? Is this coming from the Rachel Geantel testimony? Do you really mean to say that you believe that because Trayvon might have said he wasn't afraid of the crazy cracker to the girl on the other end of the phone, there is no possibility that he was lying through his teeth and was actually hiding because he was worried? Say you had a 17 yr old son who had gone to live in an area he was far from familar with and where he had no friends. Say also that he'd gone to the store on a dark, wet evening, was chatting on his phone to a girl who lived back near home and he noticed some guy in a car paying him a lot of attention. Say he then saw the guy using a phone, and after passing his car, the car began slowly moving along behind him? Would you expect him to have a valid reason to if not be scared, be a little concerned and want to get away off the road, at least?



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


First off, I don't know where you're at. But in the US you would not be allowed to possess a firearm or ammo. I have lived 44 years, and nothing worse than a speeding ticket. You need to address your anger issues.

Second, no it doesn't mean legitimate gun owners can't become criminals. But so far Zimmerman isn't a criminal. Martin was lucky as hell he wasn't popped with a felony. So who is showing criminal propensity?

Third, Like I said before I don't know where you're located. But firearm ownership in the US is quite common, its not the American Dream. And I don't care what color someone is, I believe anyone who can legally own a firearm should own at least three. An armed society is a polite society. But martin was showing a pattern of criminal activity And at minimum he showed he wasn't responsible enough to possess a firearm. And I know you can agree with that.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


First off, it's obviously Zimmerman screaming. Trayvon's dad initially said it wasn't his sone while both George's parents recognized their son. It only became Trayvons voice when people started mobilizing to demonstrate.

As for the injuries, I think they are plenty sufficient. You have to consider that Zimmerman only knows the fear and the pain and adrenaline. He doesn't know if after he shoots the guy and checks himself out if his brain will be oozing out or there will barely be a mark. All he knew was he was in danger and needed to get ouut of it. If he had allowed Martin to pound on him until there was sufficient damage he very well may be dead.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by dudeman351
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


First off, I don't know where you're at. But in the US you would not be allowed to possess a firearm or ammo. I have lived 44 years, and nothing worse than a speeding ticket. You need to address your anger issues.

Doesn't the fact I'm not typing these words from a prison cell seem to suggest that there's been a change in my behavioural patterns, or are you going to convince yourself that I am locked up somewhere? The point of my little narrative was to show that even juvenile thugs aren't predestined to become killers.


Originally posted by dudeman351
Second, no it doesn't mean legitimate gun owners can't become criminals. But so far Zimmerman isn't a criminal. Martin was lucky as hell he wasn't popped with a felony. So who is showing criminal propensity?

Neither, from where I'm sat. Which of the two's slight brushes with the law indicates the greater likelihood of violent behaviour, the one whose possible criminality involved acquiring jewelry so sneakily, even the owners hadn't reported it missing, or the other guy's assault on a cop performing his duties?

Originally posted by dudeman351
Third, Like I said before I don't know where you're located. But firearm ownership in the US is quite common, its not the American Dream. And I don't care what color someone is, I believe anyone who can legally own a firearm should own at least three. An armed society is a polite society. But martin was showing a pattern of criminal activity And at minimum he showed he wasn't responsible enough to possess a firearm. And I know you can agree with that.


Any society that needs guns to maintain politeness, is doing it wrong.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


He DID sneak up behind Zimmerman.
He did sneak up on him. Just because he asked him a question doesn't mean he wasn't right behind him after sneaking up on him) when he spoke. Evidence is on my side. If he had been at a distance then Zimmerman could have pulled his weapon and Martin couldn't have got the sucker punch in that gave him the advantage. It coinncides with Zimmermans story and the evidence. What most probably happened was he snuck up on Zimmerman, spoke his question, when zimmerman turned Martin suckerpunched him (likely saying "you do now" as he punched).

Again common sense.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 

No. I believe he wasn't scared (and MrWendel agreed he didn't think he was) because he had escaped from Zimmerman when he ran, and hung around his house for several minutes instead of going in to safety and THEN he aproached Zimmerman. If he was scared he would have gone in his home when he was there, and he definitely wouldn't have confronted Zimmerman. Those aren't the actions of a scared person that escaped danger (jumping right back into it).

So we likely agree he wasn't afraid (if he said so to rachel that further backs it, I'm not sure if he did). So if he wasn't scared why did he run in the first place? Give me a non biased explanation.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 

You are convoluting things. The only thing that matters .... did Zimmerman shoot in self defense or did he run down Martin and shoot him. So far, there is PLENTY of 'reasonable doubt' that Zimmerman ran down Martin and shot him, and the sworn testimony shows that Zimmerman was in fear for his life and shot in self defense. Like I said .. the only hope the state has is if they can show that Zimmerman absolutely shot Martin from a distance further than the Martin straddling Zimmerman. Not that he COULD have shot him at a distance, but that he DID.

This is a murder trial. You can't send someone to prison for life on a 'could have been' or 'maybe'.
There has to be no reasonable doubt. And so far... the doubt in this case is more than reasonable.

Like I said .. waiting on the gun powder forensics ...
If they say the gunpowder shows ABSOLUTELY that the gun was shot from multiple feet away,
then Zimmermans defense goes out the window. If it shows up close shooting ... then that
confirms the testimony of John Good and Zimmerman walks on the Murder 2 charge.

The state should have gone with Manslaughter. They screwed up.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Without a DOUBt Trayvons showed a likelihood of become a criminal and danger more than Zimmerman. First Zimmermans were emotional situations, not crime for the sake of crime/finacial game or boosting his ego. Second Zimmerman had way fewer run ins in his longer life than Trayvon had had in one year, plus Trayvons whole social life seemed to revolve around criminal activity despite him not being busted for it.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense would tell you someone who uses drugs, burgles, and assaults people are muuch more likely to be repeat offenders than someone thathad a fight with his wife (that was mutual and resolved so it wasn't spousal abuse or annything - stuff most everyone experiences), and fights with a cop defending someone the cop was beating (some would call the latter a noble crime).



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by hounddoghowlie


WOW ... that really is prophetic, isn't it? I"m glad that someone was able to capture that and get it out for people to see. (before the prosecution scrubbed everything .. I'm sure). I hope it's a lesson for wanna-be thugs out there. This is serious business.



posted on Jun, 30 2013 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


First off, it's obviously Zimmerman screaming. Trayvon's dad initially said it wasn't his sone while both George's parents recognized their son. It only became Trayvons voice when people started mobilizing to demonstrate.

How many parents are familiar with hearing their offspring scream in fear? That George's parents are so certain makes you wonder what family life in the Zimmerman home wa really like. If science can't determine who made a specific screaming sound, because a scream is nothing like normal voice usage, then little weight should be attached to either parent's opinions.


Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
As for the injuries, I think they are plenty sufficient. You have to consider that Zimmerman only knows the fear and the pain and adrenaline. He doesn't know if after he shoots the guy and checks himself out if his brain will be oozing out or there will barely be a mark. All he knew was he was in danger and needed to get ouut of it. If he had allowed Martin to pound on him until there was sufficient damage he very well may be dead.

Neither of us know George's pain tolerance levels, If we are to accept George's claims though, he managed to withstand a 30 second or more savage beating and still had enough in the tank to turn things around completely in his favour, albeit with the help of a gun. Does adrenaline work differently in those with a bmi of 31? If you've ever been in a fight you'll know that philosophical musings about the nature of pain and fear are the last thing on your mind when it's a fight or be a victim situation. George, on the other hand, seems to have had all sorts of awareness of what was happening on the ground while he was being beaten within an inch of his life. Afterwards, he wasn't in a state of shock and asking people what had happened, he was already laying out the foundations of his excuse and letting people know he was just defending himself.



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