The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by IvanAstikov

So, what you are describing is an even less effective control technique, whereby the attacker is just lying atop his victim, right? How is he supposed to throw down blows on George, or get the leverage to repeatedly slam George's head against the floor, when he's lying on top of him?

What exactly are you defending?? How did Zimmerman’s face and head get all the abrasions and cuts if not from getting thumped by Martin??

Are you suggesting that it’s impossible to punch someone when you’re mounted?? In MMA it’s called Ground-And-Pound and it’s quite affective! How many fights did you say you watched? Were you watching boxing?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

So, what you are describing is an even less effective control technique, whereby the attacker is just lying atop his victim, right? How is he supposed to throw down blows on George, or get the leverage to repeatedly slam George's head against the floor, when he's lying on top of him?

What exactly are you defending?? How did Zimmerman’s face and head get all the abrasions and cuts if not from getting thumped by Martin??

However they occurred, it wasn't while being g + p'd by someone sat astride their waist, as George has claimed. Zimmerman says nothing about having Martin lay atop of him at any point. He says he was knocked to the ground and before he had a chance to do anything(despite having had 30ft of recovery time since he was first hit), Trayvon was sat astride him and raining down blows.

Originally posted by seabag
Are you suggesting that it’s impossible to punch someone when you’re mounted?? In MMA it’s called Ground-And-Pound and it’s quite affective! How many fights did you say you watched? Were you watching boxing?

How many ground and pounds have you seen where the perpetrator is lay full length on his opponent? If the prosecution had made pics of people in various positions and asked Good to point out the one's which most matched the scene that night, rather than relying on stick drawings of ants and bottles of water, there'd be a lot less internet arguments.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

However they occurred, it wasn't while being g + p'd by someone sat astride their waist, as George has claimed. Zimmerman says nothing about having Martin lay atop of him at any point. He says he was knocked to the ground and before he had a chance to do anything(despite having had 30ft of recovery time since he was first hit), Trayvon was sat astride him and raining down blows.

You’re arguing semantics (laid vs sat astride).

A man who said he witnessed George Zimmerman's shooting of Trayvon Martin told a court today that what he saw indicated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman moments before Zimmerman shot and killed Martin.

abcnews.go.com...

Martin mounted him and rained down blows according to Zimmerman, and at least one witness saw Martin on top.

How many ground and pounds have you seen where the perpetrator is lay full length on his opponent?

I’ve seen it many times. You see this when the person on top is trying to keep his/her opponents legs in place to prevent the opponent from pulling guard or half guard.

Like this.....

Who said Martin was laying down on him????

If the prosecution had made pics of people in various positions and asked Good to point out the one's which most matched the scene that night, there'd be a lot less internet arguments.

You’re probably correct. It always helps to have a visual aid.

This is what I envision when I hear Zimmerman’s account and what the witness described.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


It seems to me you are just grasping for a reason to convict GZ. Your speculation and the facts simply don't match up, you might think they do because clearly you think GZ should be convicted.

It was tragic a young man died that night, however making assumptions based on your skewed views will get you no where.

Zimmerman will be found not guilty, I am willing to bet on it. I do not support his actions and like to think if I was in a similar situation I would not have used deadly force, but speculation like that is a waste of time.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

getting thumped by Martin??

However they occurred, it wasn't while being g + p'd by someone sat astride their waist, as George has claimed. Z

How many ground and pounds have you seen where the perpetrator is lay full length on his opponent? If the prosecution had made pics of people in various positions and asked Good to point out the one's which most matched the scene that night, rather than relying on stick drawings of ants and bottles of water, there'd be a lot less internet arguments.

did you not see where the defense lawyer got down on his knees, and acted like he was punching down, with his back to the witness and asked if this is what you saw?

and the witness said yes.

pretty much looked like ground and pound to me.

Originally posted by seabag

This is what I envision when I hear Zimmerman’s account and what the witness described.

edit on 28-6-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

The impression I'm getting is that Trayvons hips were against George's and his legs spread either side of Zimmerman's. That doesn't sound like a very advantageous position for someone who is 40lb lighter than the person below them, unless they have great confidence in their ground fighting abilities, and are able to quickly get into a position like the one in your photo.

I haven't seen anything yet that would require the defense to even present a witness. Plenty of reasonable doubt has been injected by cross examination alone.

Has anyone noticed, as the persecution's case has fallen apart, that sites like Huffington Post and CNN have moved the links to the trial news further and further from the top of the front page?

As far as riots after the acquittal, I will first blame those with no impulse control who participate in them. I honestly hope if that happens that many of them eat hot lead. The media will of course bear its share of the blame from the way it has reported on this case. And I imaging they need to make some money on advertising during the riots to offset the millions they are going to have to pay Zimmerman after this is all over.

Personally, I have a concealed carry permit, but rarely carry. I really don't expect anything to crazy to happen in the area I live, but I have started to carry regularly again. My name isn't Reginald Denny, I'm a much less forgiving and more suspicious person. The last time I carried regularly was those couple of weeks a little while before the election when it looked like Romney had a chance of winning, but I'd stopped carrying before election day, because it was pretty obvious we were in for another four years. I'm much more concerned about the possibility for civil disorder from this than I was an Obama defeat. So much so that I'm contemplating not only carrying my pistol but having a rifle in the trunk---just in case.

I hope that cooler heads prevail after the acquittal/dismissal, but I am of course prepared for other possibilities. There are reasons, beyond the inept attempts at eviscerating the Second Amendment, why so many firearms have been bought the past six months and ammunition is just now becoming somewhat available.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

For a guy who mentored black kids, he certainly didn't seem to have much ability in communicating with the one he decided was a problem kid on the 26th Feb, 2012.

Now you are being petty. I guess if some guy half a foot taller than you stepped out and asked if you had a problem, and you said no, and he punched you, you would handle it so much better?

Plus, stop the blowing smoke. Zimmerman didn't "decide" anyone was a "problem kid"; he reported suspicious behavior to the police, because of burglaries. Someone 6-foot plus doens't look like a "kid", either. You have nothing.

but zimmerman did have a problem, he called 911 on trayvon, felt he was being "suspicious" and was looking for or following him so why would he say he didn't have a problem? there are two sides to the story, one witness says trayvon asked why are you following me? zimmerman says that trayvon asked if he had a problem. it's just sad that we can never hear trayvons side of the story.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

The impression I'm getting is that Trayvons hips were against George's and his legs spread either side of Zimmerman's. That doesn't sound like a very advantageous position for someone who is 40lb lighter than the person below them, unless they have great confidence in their ground fighting abilities, and are able to quickly get into a position like the one in your photo.

I’ve seen stranger things…

Sounds like you’re grasping for straws. Regardless, there is little disputing that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was getting the better of the exchange…then he got shot in apparent self defense. The only issue as far as I’m concerned is who initiated the confrontation. Simply being followed doesn’t give anyone the right to turn around and assault someone.

Judging by the demeanor and mannerisms of Zimmerman, I don’t think for a minute he picked a fight with a young, tall black guy in a dark alley. Zimmerman doesn’t look very hard to say the least.

Just saying!

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
did you not see where the defense lawyer got down on his knees, and acted like he was punching down, with his back to the witness and asked if this is what you saw?

and the witness said yes.

pretty much looked like ground and pound to me.

edit on 28-6-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

He also said he didn't hear one blow landing during the 10 seconds or so he was watching. Why do you think that was, if Trayvon was actually hitting George with his ground and pound barrage? The defence's star witness thinks George might have been getting punched, but if he was, they weren't landing with enough force to make any sound.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
He also said he didn't hear one blow landing during the 10 seconds or so he was watching. Why do you think that was, if Trayvon was actually hitting George with his ground and pound barrage? The defence's star witness thinks George might have been getting punched, but if he was, they weren't landing with enough force to make any sound.

Zimmerman really beat Trayvon’s hand up with his face...silently!!

reply to post by IvanAstikov


This is real life, not an old Batman comic. Every punch is not accompanied by a 'Wham' or 'Pow".

reply to post by seabag


Looks can often be deceiving, and you seem to be ignoring the fact(according to George, at least) that he took a 40 second beatdown off a savage teen thug and still had the strength and determination to reach for his gun and end the onslaught before it got even nastier. Although, it seems Trayvon assisted him here by giving up all his fighting spirit once George decided to reach for his gun, luckily for poor, unfortunate George.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
did you not see where the defense lawyer got down on his knees, and acted like he was punching down, with his back to the witness and asked if this is what you saw?

and the witness said yes.

pretty much looked like ground and pound to me.

edit on 28-6-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

He also said he didn't hear one blow landing during the 10 seconds or so he was watching. Why do you think that was, if Trayvon was actually hitting George with his ground and pound barrage? The defence's star witness thinks George might have been getting punched, but if he was, they weren't landing with enough force to make any sound.

Wasn't it raining? The noise the rain makes could have muffled the blows. Obviously you've never experienced a Florida frog strangler. Plus you had the distance. What is a punch supposed to sound like? Hitting a baseball bat against a boulder?

Originally posted by TeflonBear
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

This is real life, not an old Batman comic. Every punch is not accompanied by a 'Wham' or 'Pow".

If I punch you in the arm or face, it's going to be heard by anyone in earshot. You can doubt it all you want - I don't much care about your opinion if you're going to be comparing mine to comic book scenarios.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
]

He also said he didn't hear one blow landing during the 10 seconds or so he was watching. Why do you think that was, if Trayvon was actually hitting George with his ground and pound barrage? The defence's star witness thinks George might have been getting punched, but if he was, they weren't landing with enough force to make any sound.

as you keep on saying, he only saw ten seconds. so how do you know that during the time he left and the time he got upstairs on the phone, that martin didn't drive his fist into zimmermans face, and pound his head on the concrete.

i personly think the woman who said she heard three pops. heard zimmermans head hitting the concrete.

ETA" because we know for a fact that only one shot was fired and this would explain the three pops she heard.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Looks can often be deceiving, and you seem to be ignoring the fact(according to George, at least) that he took a 40 second beatdown off a savage teen thug and still had the strength and determination to reach for his gun and end the onslaught before it got even nastier. Although, it seems Trayvon assisted him here by giving up all his fighting spirit once George decided to reach for his gun, luckily for poor, unfortunate George.

Like I said, what matters is who started it. There is no question in my mind that there was a disparity of force that benefited Trayvon. If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, he got shot in self defense. If Trayvon was attacked by Zimmerman, it was clearly murder.

All of the other info is nonsense meant to distract from the real issue – was the shooting self defense or not? So far it appears it was IMO.

Originally posted by TeflonBear
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

This is real life, not an old Batman comic. Every punch is not accompanied by a 'Wham' or 'Pow".

I agree with you 100%. But what can you expect from bleeding heart liberals and people who don't even live in the US? They act like they have a stake in this when the only ones that do are the people of Florida who carries a weapon.. The outcome of this trial will affect every legal firearms owner in Florida who uses their weapon in self defense.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


It has been more than clear since the beginning of the thread that you don't care about anyone's opinion except your own. You don't seem to care much for facts either.

Wow I had been listening on the radio up till now. You have to wonder why the state called that witness proving TM was on top. I think they are either idiots or are intentionally throwing the trial.

So far they have only proven Zims account. It’s a train wreck for the state.