The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by Cheesefleas


He wasn't picking a fight, he was informing the 'authorities' of a suspicious person. There is no evidence that GZ instigated or started the fight.

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

its against the courts rules to deliberate outside of the jury room.

I'm not guilty of a one liner.

I understand that; I was meaning that they alone could think about the evidence overnight, not discuss it as a group.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Originally posted by jimmyx
well, I have been warned twice, and I do not want to lose my posting privileges.....everything I said was wrong, and Zimmerman should walk

I think most of common sense America would agree with you there.

Also most of common sense America would NOT follow someone that has NOT committed a crime around with a gun through a dark neighborhood.

But hey if GZ is acquitted this will set the precedent that you can start a fight and if you can't win you can execute whoever you are fighting with, because you feared for your life.

You'd almost have a point if your post was't a lie start to finish. Zimmerman didn't really follow Martin, he was looking for him. Martin escaped running, made it home and then he followed and confronted Zimmerman instead of going inside his house. Then Martin confronted and attacked Zim. This is undisputed by the prosecution. They never once said Zimmerman attacked,a nd their star witness admitted Martin confronted Zimmerman first. The precedence is already set. When someoe starts a fight and starts beating you senseless you can use deadly force to end it. Were you one of the people they always paraded down thehallways past open class doors while I had to work on my school work? You guys sure got a lot of field trips.

You sure he wasn't following Trayvon?



And here's the full audio recording. Because I'm obviously making stuff.

www.youtube.com...

George Zimmerman had a lot of opportunities to do the right thing, and each time he was determined to track down this "Fu%^$g punk" because "they always get away."

A 17 year old is dead because he was wrongly profiled as a "F%#%ng punk" and a "God-damned a**-hole"

No, it is not illegal to follow someone..but apparently it's illegal to be a young black teenager wearing a hoodie and walking through a neighborhood. It's so illegal that you can be killed for it and the other person can claim he did it in self defense.

reply to post by ButterCookie


a hah! I thought you meant what I said.

that is true, they have time to digest the evidence. Hopefully it has helped them.

reply to post by muse7


This may have been covered but bear with me. I saw a show last night (20/20 I think) that had what I believe to be a recorded interview with GZ at the scene of the incident. GZ described what happened that night and said (paraphrasing here) during the scuffle, when TM was on top of him, his handgun became visible in his waistband. He said TM saw the gun, looked at him and said “You’re gonna die tonight”” as he reached for GZ’s gun. At that moment, GZ had every reason to fear for his life!!!

As someone who has had a concealed license in Texas for almost a decade (8 ½ years) I can tell you that carrying a gun makes a person less likely to get into a physical altercation. Once you go hands-on with someone, that person has access to your handgun and your odds of survival have significantly decreased. You will have afforded the person you’re trying to protect yourself from an efficient means of dispatching you. Police have special holsters that make it very difficult for anyone else to remove the gun from the holster. This is why it is slightly safer for police to scuffle with people while carrying. 99% of civilians who carry a concealed handgun DO NOT use a holster like that (those are typically designed for open carry rather than concealed carry).

Based on these things, I find it very unlikely that GZ intended to have a confrontation. The fact that he didn’t pull his weapon until TM went for it tells me he had no intention of using it prior to the point when he feared for his life.

This is important to remember for the jury members! It doesn’t matter if you think GZ is racist. It doesn’t matter if you think GZ was dumb for following him. It doesn’t matter if you think GZ wasn’t scared of TM when he exited his truck. It doesn’t matter of you think GZ was acting like John freaking Wayne that night. All that matters is whether GZ feared for his life at the time he used deadly force!! I think the answer is obvious. If he feared for his life, regardless why he was there, he had every right to pull his gun and defend himself.

So.......

its about 30 minutes before lunch time. The question is:

Are they going to stop for lunch and come back to continue to deliberate - or are they going to try to have this wrapped up in 30 minutes and be able to go home?

Originally posted by Cheesefleas

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I thought the prosecutions case was just fine. How many fights in the world?
How many of those end up in someone getting shot and killed?

are you kidding me, there are plenty of fights ending in a stabbing or shooting.
i don't know how to even word a search for it, but in many local news reports every night you hear of such things.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by Cheesefleas

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I thought the prosecutions case was just fine. How many fights in the world?
How many of those end up in someone getting shot and killed?

are you kidding me, there are plenty of fights ending in a stabbing or shooting.
i don't know how to even word a search for it, but in many local news reports every night you hear of such things.

edit on 13-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

Exactly. As a matter of fact, MOST fights end up with a death these days moreso than 'back in the day'.

There is no more 'good ole' street fighting anymore; most likely, someone has a gun; if they don't use it on the scene, they will go back and get one- and come back for the person they fought.

reply to post by muse7


You are missing my point. He said following him sure, but he lost track of him after he ran. Martin wasn't in sight so in reality he was searching gor him he thought h had run out of the neighborhood. Remember Martin ran while Zimmerman was still in/ by his truck. Martin ran home, but FOR SOOME REASON didn't go in to safety. Instead he waited until he saw Zimmerman (who had given up the search to return to his truck ad meet plice). So then Trayvon technically followed Zimmerman and confronted him. So Zimmerman was NOT following Martin at the time Marti attacked him.

Trust me dude, I know this case by heart. I watched when it happened, investigated on my own, and have watched every minute of the trial.

I would argue that all the evidence suggests Martin was a punk. He was a vandal (recorded), he assaulted a bus driver, he fought regularly, he sold and bought guns illegally, he had hs mom straw purchase him a gun, he wa caught with burglary tools and womens jewelry, he dalt drugs, he consumed drugs (thc and cough syrup) regularly, he was a self described gangster, and he was likely casing the neighborhood since it took him an hour to walk .6 miles and back and he immediately ran (he made it home, but rather than go inside he waited and assaulted Zimmerman.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by muse7
Take the gun out of the equation for a minute. Would you be outraged if GZ followed him without a gun (while talking to 911)? He was keeping an eye on the neighborhood…neighborhood watch. Is it illegal to watch or follow? Is it illegal to walk around in a neighborhood?

So was it illegal for TM to walk around the same neighborhood? The fact is GZ decided to bring a gun along, he is RESPONSIBLE for that, it is very pertanent that a gun was involved because it created the outcome.

GZ killed a person, he made a host of decisions that lead to that outcome and he pulled the trigger.

You’re starting with a false premise. Zimmerman didn’t start a fight….he was following and informing authorities of the suspicious person’s whereabouts. If Zimmerman started a fight, where are the marks on TM? Are you saying he started the fight but didn’t land a single blow?

I have seen many one sided fights, I have been punched several times without a mark.
GZ was looking for trouble that night (literally)and he manifested it.

It's important for people to understand the facts of the case we know so far because we can't have a serious discussion if some people still don't know what happened.

The fact is GZ is the only eye witness to the final showdown, the fact is GZ is in jeopardy, you don't mean to tell us that some people fudge the facts when they are facing prison? Not to mention that GZ's stories have morphed slowly which is common psychologically speaking, interesting that his "facts" have evolved to better his defense.

He killed a person with his gun because he is a busy body who brings a gun along. Its his responsibility.

reply to post by Cheesefleas


he wasn't following him because he thought walking around his neighborhood was illegal. what kind of argument is that?

According to the tapes, he was acting suspicious, looking at/into houses in the rain, at night...

In addition to a discriminatory all female jury selection GZ is also confronted by a confrontational obvious man-hater (not a feminist) biased female who was constantly favoring the prosecution.

Mind you - the defense had the first judge (male) excused from the case. The defense flubbed in my opinion by allowing an all female jury and by arguing against the presence of the first judge.

Something else I was wondering about too -
All previous references (online and otherwise) to the presiding judge in the trial were as Debra Steinberg Nelson, including all biographical sites such as Judgepedia, Wikipedia and Linkedin etc., and of all work history - they all include her maiden name of Steinberg, which she was obviously very proud until now - she changed her usual way of identifying herself - now its just Debra Nelson. Why?

reply to post by Cheesefleas


No, wrong. Trayvons assault and continuing the assault created the outcome. If he punched zimmerman and ran and was shot in the back, lock gz up. Martin had plenty of time and opportunities to avoid the situation. Instead he punched crawled on top and kept going. I would have shot him too if I was in GZ situation.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by Cheesefleas

Originally posted by jam321
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread952922/pg283#pid16658497]post by ButterCookie

are you kidding me, there are plenty of fights ending in a stabbing or shooting.

And how many do not?

Lets see, I have been in about three dozen fights since I was five. I was never shot or stabbed. I never shot or stabbed anyone.

Further more,if this happened at a bar, GZ would be accused of 2nd degree, check your local news and tell me he could lean on "self defense".

It takes two to tango, you bring a gun to the dance and you use it, you're going away.