The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by roadgravel


I also heard the judge gave very fast paced and convuluted jury instructions.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


In this case?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Read the Florida statutes. They also wanted Murder3 but it really wasn't applicable. So it was not allowed. The judge nixed it.

reply to post by TKDRL


Yes. Even the lawyers on tv were saying the instructions were confusing.

It is actually quite common for a prosecutor to go for the highest level charge she feels she can prove, with the understanding that if she cannot prove the greatest charge, a lower charge might stick with the jury. Now, this isn’t always the case. In some states the prosecutor must specifically state all charges, but Florida allows for automatic inclusion of lesser included offenses.

What are the Included Offenses of Murder in Florida?

First degree murder (premeditated) 782.04(1)
Second degree murder (Depraved mind) 782.04(2) – Zimmerman’s charge
Manslaughter 782.07
Second degree (felony murder) 782.04(3)
Third degree murder (felony) 782.04(4)
Vehicular homicide 782.071

After the above six charges come the non-homicide lesser included offenses. They are:

Attempt
Culpable negligence
Aggravated battery
Aggravated assault
Battery and assault

So, essentially, Zimmerman is charged with each of the crimes from second degree murder on down, except of course for any crimes that are clearly not relevant, such as vehicular homicide.

Originally posted by roadgravel
West was upset over the man3 charge being considered.

The idea that manslaughter would be in play was known from the start, despite what some here said. But as far as the jury, they may not have been aware. I don't recall that mentioned in the trial for them to know positively.

Here are the facts. While it is appropriate for a lessor charge to be considered, it is incredibly and unjustly inappropriate for the jury to not be told the guidelines of the sentencing. I understand the premise and logic behind it but what I don't understand is the promise and logic behind the state's guidelines for sentencing.

Considering that you can be sentenced to as much if not more time for the manslaughter charge I do not view that as a reasonable "lessor option". I also have a serious problem with the judge barely being able to speak fluent proper english and have to struggle with basic grammar. She argued cases at one point on behalf of the state or defendants?????? Yikes.

Charge somebody with whatever you see fit, what you have reasonable cause for and you can prove and you should have to prove THAT charge or the outcome should be NOT GUILTY. You can't and shouldn't be allowed to go on fishing expeditions with court charges, it's asinine and not in line the American spirit.

If you have the evidence, charge the person with a crime and prove in court they are guilty of THAT crime and don't hedge your bets by saying, well, even though our evidence is really weak, maybe you could compromise and say they are guilty of this, or this and oh, by the way, the lessor crime carries harsher penalties than the one we asked to you convict of! LOL stupid citizen jurors.

This whole system is just such a shame......

Well will ya look at this. White man shot dead by black man who thought he had a weapon. It turned out he was holding a leash. The black man wasn't arrested either, initially. Why?

www.myfoxphoenix.com...

So much for the claim that if the races were reversed, Black Zimmerman would have been sentenced to death without a trial. Seriously. I've seen so many people claim that, and yet here's a case where a white dude is killed by a black man, and its ruled lawful self-defense. There was also another case, very similar to the Trayvon Martin case where an adult black male shot a white teen dead in self-defense. He was acquitted because the evidence was on his side.

the media's intent on creating racial disharmony is so obvious... and disgusting.

reply to post by roadgravel


Yeah i know she nixed it. I may be wrong, not claiming to know it all. I was just under the impression that there was no lesser included in this one and that it was added at the end only.

Looks like it was murder 3 not manslaughter 3. My mistake.

She just read the instructions. The jurors can reread them, If they get lost they can ask the judge a question later.

As long as a few jurors have common sense then the worst case scenario will be a hung jury.


What I would give to be a fly on the wall in there. I can say this if they do find him guilty of anything they will be kicking themselves after the trial when they see the BS they missed in the court room.

One other thing about the jury there identitys will be with held for 6 months after the deliberation which is a record here in Florida.

reply to post by roadgravel


I thought murder 3 was not included.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by roadgravel

 

I thought murder 3 was not included.

It wasn't. The judge left it out. I used the wrong term earlier.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Why would they name them at all?........
So knowing their names will be made public is another reason they might want to convict of something.

Originally posted by roadgravel
She just read the instructions. The jurors can reread them, If they get lost they can ask the judge a question later.

Unfortunately I trust her about as far as I could throw her.. and I figure I could throw her about as far as I could throw Chris Farley.

reply to post by Grimpachi

As stated in he instructions, it is all to be based on the evidence / facts presented. It seemed to me the facts to convict were not there. We will learn something about those 6 people.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Those instructions are pretty standard. You heard them. The law and what is required to prove conviction. What method a juror can use to determine the answer.

picture is graphic*

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
If Trayvon was fearful for his safety and only 'self defense', then why did he pursue further physical engagement with Zimmerman after he'd already basically dropped him to the ground with the initial punch to the nose/face.

EXCELLENT point. Punch him, drop him, and then run. He could have done that.

If this 'scared little child who was alone in the dark' ( ) was sooooo scared, then he had 4 1/2 minutes to run home. His 'home' (the house of his fathers mistress) was just a football throw away. He EASILY could have just gone home and called 911 if he was such a scared little child. Obviously ... he chose to engage Zimmerman.

Martin was no child. He was a thug wanna be who frequently fought and loved to take pictures of himself waving guns around. OBVIOUSLY he wanted to engage Zimmerman in a fight instead of just going home.