The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by IvanAstikov


yeah same here.
not anymore, now it's some news.

reply to post by Minus


Oh.. that's absurd. I have no personal argument with you. I've only argued with you this one time in this entire thread. I have n interest in being on the flipside of your argument. I think you said that because I made a great point there and you ignored it.

Instead of ignoring tell me, what do you think? Do you disagree that Zimmerma likely thought the person he was chasing was likely going for the exit? Do you think Zimmerman thought he was chasing someone that didn't belog and therefore would exit or do you think he thought it was a neighbor that would hang around and wait on him?

I think my point pretty much squashes your theory that he had to consder he would probably run nto the suspect. You for some reason took it personal instead of answering. I admit when I'm probably wrong or am wrong. Nothing wrong with changing your mind.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

. . . street fighters do not try to mount opponents they have already put down with a strike, and if that opponent was lay on his back inviting the mount, they'd be idiots not to just stomp all over their helpless victim.

Do you think for just a minute, following a bit of 'root cause analysis', that maybe . . . just maybe that this whole stomp on your opponent attitude was what got us to this whole stinking festering mess in the first place??????

Mr. Zimmerman could have stayed in his car.
Mr. Martin could have called 911 on his cell phone.
Both could have simply avoided this whole #show mess with a bit of communication.

Instead . . . we have a young adult dead, another adult's life ruined beyond any hope of meaningful repair regardless the outcome of this trial . . . and a country clearly divided over by an issue driven by interest groups looking to solidify their position by dragging both Mr. Zimmerman and the late Mr. Martin's name through the mud.

Think any meaniful communication will result following the outcome of this trial? Hell, they're already preparing for the worst in terms of racial tensions, potential riots and general civil unrest . . . probably millions of dollars in damage and more unnecessary deaths.

Therein lies the rub, bub . . . everyone's so quick to escalate things to the point of fisticuffs . . . gunplay . . . the use of fatal force . . . to resolve situations that maybe . . . just maybe could be addressed some other way . . . by recognizing differences, a bit of mutual respect and a whole lotta communication.

Kinda sad, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it all, at least to me.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

In all the secret folders on Trayvon's phone, the only references they find to him actually being involved in any fighting is one instance where he had a 3 round fight with some other person. Even if there was any evidence that this was one among several such fights, that would just mean that Trayvon was involved in the most honourable form of street fighting of all, aka fighting a willing opponent while being watched by an impartial referee. This would not be evidence of him being likely to carry out a prolonged attack on a complete stranger less than 100 yds from where he was staying.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I've seen all the pics. I haven't seen Trayvon Martin's knuckle imprint on any of them. Forensic examination couldn't find any trace of Zimmerman's dna on Trayvon's dark hoody or his light, burglary-friendly trousers.

It was on TM's shirt though.

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FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO CATCH UP .... My notes ... short but to the point. May not be in order or complete ... but they may help those who are not caught up)

DAY ONE - Opening remarks. Prosecution opened strong. Used cuss words. Defense opened weak. Used failing knock knock joke. Later apologized for it. Prosecution started their case.

Chad Joseph. Teen played video games with Martin the day he died. Tried to portray Martin as a kid.
Andrew Gough - 7/11 Employee who sold Martin skittles and a drink
Sean Noffke - Police Dispatcher. .Defense neutralized.
Ramona Rumph - Custodian of Records. 911 and non emergency calls. State wanted to show all Zimmermans calls to 911/dispatch as a neighborhood watch. .Defense neutralized/

DAY TWO - Prosecution case.
Wendy Dorival - Sanford Police Dept Neighborhood Watch. Turned for defense. Says Zimmerman was always polite and calm. That it good that Zimemrman was getting a Criminal Justice Degree

Donald O'Brien. President Twin Lakes HOA. Didn't like Zimmerman. Defense neutralized.
Selene Bahadoor - Claimed to have heard the fight. Changed statements. Defense neutralized.
Sgt Anthony Raimondo - Sanford PD. Attempted CPR on Martin at the scene.
Diane Smith - Crime Scene Tech Sanford PD. Gathered evidence at crime scene.

DAY THREE - Prosecution case.
Jane Sodyka - Claims to have heard 3 'pops' durin fight. Discredited by forensics. (one shot)
Jeanne Manaloo - Claimed to see Zimmerman on top during fight. Admits only seeing shadows in the dark. Discredited.
Ramona Rumph - Custodian of Records Sanford PD Recalled. States nothing unusual about number of calls Zimmerman made to dispatch or 911, or their tone. Defense turned.

DAY THREE AND FOUR - Rachel Jeantel "dee dee" - Caught in many lies. Said 'Crazy Ass Ceracker' wasn't racist. Rolled her eyes a lot and was hostile to defense. Speech was very poor city eubonics type english. Prosecution tried to say english was her third language but this turned out not to be true. Highly aggitated on first day but on second day was total opposite. Barely could be heard. Mellow. (seemed drugged to me). Totally discredited. Defense neutralized.

Raymond MacDonald - Sr. Mgr T Mobile. Just court housekeeping stuff. No value.

Jeanna Lauer - Resident @ Twin Lakes. Made 911 call that caught the screams. She said the rain was 'steady paced which counters the state saying it was just a drizzle. She backed up Zimmermans account. Couldn't ID Zimmerman at the scene because he was so beat up. State tried to discredit her, their own witness, by claiming she was following Zimmermans brother on Twitter. But it was shown that she never tweeted and that it was Zimmermans brother that was instead following her. Turned for the defense.

Selma Mora - Resident Twin Lakes - Saw bodies after shot. Backed Zimmermans Account. Turned for the defense.
John Good - Resident Twin Lakes - saw fight. Saw Martin on top beating Zimmerman ground and pound style..

DAY FIVE
LIndzee Folgate - Physicians Assistant. Said Zimmermans wounds inconsequential and also that 'whatever Zimmerman did to stop the attack saved his life'. Turned for the defense.
George McKinney - United Security Alliance - said nothing on security tapes of the area.
Jonathan Manalo - Resident Twin Lakes - took pictures immediate after fight. Sold for $$.
Police Officer Richardo Ayala - Sanford PD - first responder
EMT Stacey Livingston - First Responder
Police Officer Timothy Smith - Sanford PD - first responder

DAY 6 - Lead Investigator Chris Serino. Totally backed Zimmerman story. Said 'Zimmerman could have been a victim too'. Found Zimmerman story to be 'credible'. Also that Zimmermans injuries were exaggerated but that they didn't have to be life threatening, but only that Zimmerman had to believe his life was in danger. Said that at no time did Zimmerman express 'ill will, hatred or spite towards Martin' (All needed for Murder 2 conviction). Turned for defense.

DAY 7 - Video of Zimmerman on Hannity show is shown.

Mark Osterman - wrote a book which in places contradicts Zimmermans Hannity statements. Osterman admits that he wrote the book based on one conversation and that he didn't take notes and may have gotten things wrong. Turned for the defense.

Valarie Rao - Medical Examiner Hired Gun Expert - Years of complaints against her for doing things like washing her feet in autopsy sinks and using bare hands during procedures. She expressed her opinions from the photographs. said the injuries were insignificant or consistent with someone getting hit less than 3 times. On cross exam she admits that doing this was unscientific or unreliable (can't remember which she said) doing it by photograph. Neutralized by the defense.

Kristine Benson. Latent Print Analysis - Said no Martin prints on gun but that doesn't mean anything. Neutralized by the defense.

reply to post by GoalPoster

Do you think for just a minute, following a bit of 'root cause analysis', that maybe . . . just maybe that this whole stomp on your opponent attitude was what got us to this whole stinking festering mess in the first place??????

I was describing what an "accomplished street fighter" would do, not recommending a go-to response for every occasion where you have had to hit someone and you've put them on their back.

If the person you had just hit had just given you a glimpse of his gun butt or the hilt of a knife, hitting hard and following up ruthlessly to prevent them getting to that weapon would be perfectly understandable. There are even stun guns and real bullet firing devices that look like mobile phones, so if someone is walking towards you with one of them in a poorly-lit environment with no witnesses about, that person is a potential threat you should be ready to kill, if you have to.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


You forgot Rachel Jeantel's reason for not being concerned that Trayvon did't call back.

I believe she said "thought it was just ANOTHER fight" (emphasis mine).

Oh and the messages about him assaulting a bus driver.

reply to post by roadgravel


Yep, sure was. Curious that. Did he wipe the blood on his flashlight off there, after hitting himself on the back of the head with it, I wonder? Funny how George's own prints were on neither his flashlight or his gun? That pesky dna affecting rain, eh?

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


Thanks.

There seem t be less and less trolls each day. I think the prosecution is getting so thoroughly "clownt" that the trolls aren't even getting out of bed anymore.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


NEWSFLASH: Teenage girl acknowledges that boys fight. Obviously this is conclusive evidence that George Zimmerman had good reason to kill Trayvon Martin. Further updates at noon.

ps. Re- the bus driver assault claim, when you bring forth the driver he assaulted as evidence, rather than a reference on a social networking site, I'll pay it some consideration.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Zimmerman's prints were on his gun. Read the mods post about trolling.
Whether you are aware or not saying dumb things like Zimmerman hit himself in the back of the head with his flashlight (which is retartet sir ) you are in fact trolling.

DAY 8 - Judge Rules State Can Include Zimmerman College Info

Sonjja Boles Melvin - Registrar Seminole State College
Mr. Arzenski - Admin Services Manager Sanford PD
Captain Alex Carter US Army JAG (said 'HI' to Zimmerman upon taking stand)

Prof Scott Pleasant - Online Criminal Justice Couse - (got skype bombed) Said Zimmerman wanted to be a lawyer, not a cop like the prosecution was saying. Said his course didn't cover Stand Your Ground. Again, not like the prosecution was saying.

Amy Siewert - Forensic Analyst - Stated it was Zimmermans gun. It was touching clothes but unsure if it was 'pressed' into his body. Neutralized by defense.

DAY 9 -
Sybrina Fulton, Mother of Martin She said the 911 screams were Martins. Defense made the mistake of asking her questions. Didn't look good.

Jahvaris Fulton - Martins brother. Said it was Martin on 911 tape. Defense neutralized opinion.

Gladys Zimmerman (Mother of George). Said it was Zimmerman on the 911 tape.
Jorge Meza (Uncle of Zimmerman) Said it was Zimmerman on 911 tape.

DAY 10 (Prosecution getting uptight and their voices are raised ... )
John Donnelly Vietnam Combat Medic and friend. Said 911 tape was Zimmerman screaming
Sandra Osterman - Friend - Says 911 tape was 'Georgie' screaming
Mark Osterman - Federal Air Marshall Said 911 tape was Zimmerman screaming. Also taught gun safety to Zimmerman.
Ceri Russo - Coworker. Said 911 scream was Zimmerman.
Leanne Benjamin - said 911 scream was Zimmerman.
Martins Father called - said 911 was his son and that he never said 'no' to the question if it was.
Adam Pollock, Gym owner and trainer. Said Zimmerman couldn't fight and was 'soft'.

DAY 11 (looks to me like prosecution gave up)
Dr. Di Maio - Gunshot wound expert. Reviewed everything and said wounds consistent with Zimmermans story. Martin on top of Zimmerman with shirt hanging down when shot. Zimmerman wounds consistent with multiple hits and slams on concrete .. not 'just three' like the previous ME said. Prosecution attempted to say that the wounds were from 'tree branches' and got desperate. But Dr. Di Maio didn't turn and stuck with his facts.

Sanford City Manager Norton Bonoparte - hostile toward defense. Played 911 tapes for Martin family for the first time. Locked police out and contaminated the witnesses. Said he did it as a 'courtesy' to the family.

A woman named Dillard (Hard to hear). ViA internet testified about seeing bodies after fight.

THAT IS UP TO DATE NOW.
I MAY HAVE MISSED THINGS OR GOT PEOPLE ON WRONG DAYS.
BUT THAT'S THE BEST I HAVE.

HERE WE GO ..... The defense was ruled against .. they can not use their video representation and they can not use Martins social media posts (wanna be thug stuff) .... Jury is now entering the court room ...

ETA .. grounds for appeal if Zimmerman is found guilty.... Martins social media posts go to his defense.

Looks like the texts are not admissible

reply to post by FlyersFan


Haha of course they can't it would have shown Martin was a criminal, his dad was complicit in buying selling guns, and other things (like his perpetual cough ).

I hope the defense pouds the conspiracy out. They have pretty mch beat the case, take it to the next level. Rock the government lol.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Despite your ever shriller claims otherwise, it is NOT trolling, it is speculation perfectly within the bounds of reality when you are dealing with a person facing a life sentence. George would not be the first, nor will he be the last person to fake injuries to gain some kind of advantage. Some people will do it just for a few thousand dollar compensation claim. Don't even try to pretend that it wouldn't enter Zimmerman's head. I may not know with any kind of certainty what the man is capable of, but nor do you, so stop stating things like they are indisputable facts. There is still no evidence that has been brought forth in court that proves conclusively, or even beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Trayvon's fist that caused Zimmerman's worst injury.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Zimmerman's prints were on his gun. Read the mods post about trolling.
Whether you are aware or not saying dumb things like Zimmerman hit himself in the back of the head with his flashlight (which is retartet sir

) you are in fact trolling.

There was also DNA on the gun slide that was not Zimmerman's, that could not be ruled in, nor out, as being Martin's.

So, if someone grabs at your gun, you wrestle it away, fire the gun, holster it, it gets seized, removed from the holster, gun checked with non-gloved hands, emptied of ammo, swabbed, would you imagine the DNA would be perfect?

No? Me either.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
NEWSFLASH: Teenage girl acknowledges that boys fight.

NEWSFLASH: Most respectful 17 year old boys don't get into fights so much that someone at the other end of the phone shrugs it off as 'just another fight'. Constant fighting is problem behavior and no, it's not 'common'.