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Originally posted by yourmaker
Originally posted by ImagineAlldaPeople
You should be happy & grateful for Prism. If not for it's leak, "Your Bigger Point", Echelon, would not be able to get the Attention it probably Deserves like you say.
This is true because some of us here have been mentioning Echelon for months now with little to no response, but now people are actually more inclined to believe it sadly, now that the MSM is dishing on PRISM.
Has anyone asked if they WANT us to know about PRISM?
I mean, they seem to be doing their best to anger Americans...
Originally posted by Aliensun
I'm going to assume that most of you have not heard of the earlier program, "carnivore?"
Originally posted by flexy123
Why should ECHELON, that decade old system, be the "real" threat to privacy?
Anyone knows that the NSA is monitoring international phone calls/data etc...and it's not only the US but likely most countries who "listen in" in foreign communication. This is old, old, old...
PRISM, as far as I understand it, is far, far more advanced, it's the logical successor and advanced version of ECHELON where monitoring and analysis now is going on with a focus on the internet, social networking..TODAY'S way of communicating and socializing.
If ECHELON would be so advanced in doing all those things they never would have established PRISM in the first place.
ECHELON in all likelihood will not be able to produce a "history" if it flags calls or emails...
Originally posted by TheBlackHat
I only started using a cell phone 5 years ago and its a cheap pre paid one, which I haven't updated..I knew full well the so called "smart phones" were full of tracking devices...and I dint need one anyhow, all I use a phone for is to make phone calls...not look like a poser on Facebook or twitter.
But the bottom line is if I want to get out of this surveillance society, then the only real way to go is to go off grid and quit using electronic devices altogether..I have heard of some old guys who still live by candle light and coal fires..and water from the well..it might not be for everyone but I reckon it might well be for me.
edit on 11-6-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by multichild
One issue with these sophisticated sureveillance systems is that some "Terrorist" activities do get through and cause havoc in our streets, so it begs the question that some of them are let go even though there is enough information to quickly stamp it out, so that the threat is kept and so the funding and excuses to keep a sureveilance society is accepted by the general public.
Thats the scary bit
Originally posted by NewtonDKC
There are further implications I find even more disturbing in regards to the mainstream outing of pervasive monitoring of everyday communications (which most of us in the conspiracy crowd already suspected had been happening all along anyway whilst being labelled paranoid) is that it indicates these monitoring agencies have been aware of - before the fact - any and all plans to bomb, attack, disrupt or otherwise cause disturbances to any interests of the US.
Even if the initial or even main planning takes place in a cave somewhere free of cameras, satellites, etc, communication has to take place in the later stages of organizing and executing whatever the Event is. And only relying on trigger words is antiquated and primitive. If algorithms exist that can differentiate true languages from random word groupings all from unknown characters, identify how many individuals contributed to writings in unknown languages, etc - then you can be reasonably assured tech exists to detect talking in code.
The saying goes something like "military tech is 25 to 50 years ahead of what the general public is aware exists or even possible". The actual difference would vary depending on focus, budget, and breakthroughs in the specific areas - and something like surveillance and monitoring communications that has research dedicated to advancing it, not to mention all the public sector developers contributing their ideas and unique creative approaches - all this ensures the methodology and technology are going to be unbelievably advanced. And you want the public to think such tech is sci fi, so they are less likely to avoid using the methods of communication being monitored.
So my main concern and outrage about this monitoring is that the very real deaths of innocent people - whether the event was a false flag, intricate terrorist plot, or hastily planned rage against the overlords style mini attack - were known about in advance of being carried out and still happened with no advance warnings given. That - to me - is an even greater issue than the privacy and constitutional transgressions. It's bad enough to break the law and spy on the citizens supposedly for our safety to prevent terrorist attacks but when these attacks were allowed to be carried out without so much as a warning, then how can this possibly be justified??edit on 12-6-2013 by NewtonDKC because:
Originally posted by menneni
I do not know if this is linked or not..
..But are you familiar with the Finnish Sonera ECHELON -story? Well its not just a story.
in 2004, then government owned Sonera (nowadays Telia-Sonera) had one of their mailboxes quota full.
The mailbox was ECHELON@sonera.inet.fi. LOTS of mail, sent by random people, were returned to their mailbox because of that quota thing.
There are some information left in the web about this. Also i should note, there are lots of information missing about this. There was an invidual in Finland who made an request to police for opening an investigation but the investigation was never started. He made all his work about this sonera echelon -thing public, but the information is not available anymore i'm afraid. The page does not exist anymore.
Some of the data about this is still available in usenet / sfnet
Also i find it "funny" that the smart meter in my house is made by Echelon and the product is mesh of smart meters, sending data about my electricity to my energy provider and WHO ELSE. Me like it not.
I was promised that i will have a weblogin for watching the live data and reports from the meter but there is not such thing yet for consumers. Prior to installation, i rejected it and asked for more information about the device. They took my phone number but never i have not received any additional data about the smart meters.
The meter installations were forced upon clients.
on a sidenote, i think there is some room for thought about hacking the meter .)
edit on 12-6-2013 by menneni because: 421EDITION