Why do people still believe that UFO's are alien?

Is there even on scrap of evidence to prove it?

1979 Video Of National Broadcast- Pittsburgh Daylight UFO'S At Football Game - 52,000 Stadium Atten

Swarm of Lights Appear Over Argentina and Chile And Is Filmed From Six Cameras

Crete UFO Image Captured

UFO releases intelligent moving spheres

NASA STS-114 UFO Footage

reply to post by Jefferton

reply to post by ZetaRediculian






That's St Anthony's Fire, doesn't look like Colares to me.

This is the burns from Colares' incident:




First 2 looks nothing like the Colares incident, if you think they all look similar I hope no one goes to you for medical advice. Kind of amusing how you're matching symptoms by descriptive words, but not using images.

Wait, weren't you the one who agreed with Phage to not throw all cases into 1 bucket and to view each case individually? Oh, the hypocrisy.

Did you think the doctor who took blood samples wouldn't find out something in the system which is used in pharmacy? Not likely.

Ergot extract has been used in pharmaceutical preparations, including Ergot alkaloids in products such as Cafergot (containing caffeine and ergotamine[12] or ergoline) to treat migraine headaches, and ergometrine, used to induce uterine contractions and to control bleeding after childbirth

reply to post by ZetaRediculian




On your point of "no alien encounters" are you speaking from any qualified position or from not having experienced any, lets say encounters with "high strangeness" in the forms or perceptions of intelligence that acts independently and out side of not only your control but from a physical and mental control.The reason i ask this is the investigations and scientific methods used by the late Dr John Mack is showing us from a purely credible academical investigation of the hundreds of cases he personally investigated from people who claimed the very thing you say has not happened.

While Dr Mack did say that we could be dealing with a much more complex reality than aliens or ET intelligences ,(but he also did not rule it out),contacting individuals the fact remains again that anyone claiming a final conclusion on this "contact possibility" must be in that credible position that Dr Mack was to do so in the first place . Again personal surmising and speculations might be okay for a internet forum but in the real nitty gritty reality of actual scientific academical investigations from those qualified is a totally different reality and one i feel often gets over looked,ignored and conveniently left out when personal surmising and opinions are offered as credible rebuttals.

The fact remains that over the years highly credible people who have either investigated or been privy to "exceptional experiences" involving objects that are deemed not to be hallucinations, surely when you have more that one witness or multiple witnesses observing the same stimuli then hallucinations are ruled out of the equation.

There is cases of radar hits,ground observations by independent witnesses and from the pilot involved too, these are the cases and the nature of the data they contain that should be of primary importance and perception when hallucinations are cited as the major factor or that they are in a higher percentage of reports than multiple witness and radar confirmation cases.

I still find it bizarre that the hallucinating and radar "spoofing" explanations are deemed more important than these containing radar hits,ground observations by independent witnesses and from the pilot involved too.

There has i feel been too much focus and attention on not only radar "spoofing" cases being cleverly cited to debunk ALL UFO cases involving radar,multiple witnesses and pilot testimonies.

That there are unknowns that have entered and left restricted air spaces of various nations is apparent by the sheer number of cases that contain credible witnesses and investigators is than not in its self surely not only a cause for possibility of some out of that percentage having ET origins but also provocative and a very serious statistic.

Originally posted by peashooter
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

That's St Anthony's Fire, doesn't look like Colares to me.

This is the burns from Colares' incident:

First 2 looks nothing like the Colares incident, if you think they all look similar I hope no one goes to you for medical advice. Kind of amusing how you're matching symptoms by descriptive words, but not using images.

You are right except I'm not claiming that they are. Not only that, the photo from Colares looks like it could be any common minor skin rash. There is nothing unusual about it and it doesn't even match what the descriptions are. I have had mosquito bites worse than that. Where are the rest of the documented photos? In color perhaps? This photo could be from anything.

I'm not making a claim that any photo matches. So why are arguing about it? It's like if I took photos from radiation burn victims and showed how they don't match to that grainy black and white photo that could be anything.

Wait, weren't you the one who agreed with Phage to not throw all cases into 1 bucket and to view each case individually? Oh, the hypocrisy.

What are you even talking about? Not only am I talking about only ONE case, I'm talking about ONE aspect of ONE case. What exactly are you reading? Seriously, what are you talking about? I honestly have no idea how that statement applies to anything I'm discussing.

Did you think the doctor who took blood samples wouldn't find out something in the system which is used in pharmacy? Not likely.

Ergot extract has been used in pharmaceutical preparations, including Ergot alkaloids in products such as Cafergot (containing caffeine and ergotamine[12] or ergoline) to treat migraine headaches, and ergometrine, used to induce uterine contractions and to control bleeding after childbirth

edit on 15-6-2013 by peashooter because: (no reason given)

I thought about that but this is not a well known thing. When you take blood samples, you can only detect for what you are testing for. When you get drug tested, drugs just don't show up. There is a specific test for each specific drug. If this was a common thing, you might have an argument. This is also 1977 in an undeveloped part of the world. Why not ask a doctor what routine tests would be after UFO beam attacks in Brazil in 1977.

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

On your point of "no alien encounters" are you speaking from any qualified position or from not having experienced any, lets say encounters with "high strangeness" in the forms or perceptions of intelligence that acts independently and out side of not only your control but from a physical and mental control.The reason i ask this is the investigations and scientific methods used by the late Dr John Mack is showing us from a purely credible academical investigation of the hundreds of cases he personally investigated from people who claimed the very thing you say has not happened.

While Dr Mack did say that we could be dealing with a much more complex reality than aliens or ET intelligences ,(but he also did not rule it out),contacting individuals the fact remains again that anyone claiming a final conclusion on this "contact possibility" must be in that credible position that Dr Mack was to do so in the first place . Again personal surmising and speculations might be okay for a internet forum but in the real nitty gritty reality of actual scientific academical investigations from those qualified is a totally different reality and one i feel often gets over looked,ignored and conveniently left out when personal surmising and opinions are offered as credible rebuttals.

First, my opinion is that this is a separate phenomenon then that of UFO encounters.

I actually like your point. Personally, I would like to get more into Mack's work. I think he is a very important figure in this field. But it really comes down to his opinion. Obviously, other credentialed people doing the same work with the same results could come to a different conclusion. I do respect him for his stance on the matter and the fact that he endured some rather harsh criticism for his views.

Another well credentialed person in academia who came to a similar conclusion was Dr Rick Strassman. His patients entities were seen while they were under the influence of Dimethyltryptamine. en.wikipedia.org...
The parallels between the two phenomenon are striking.

Intriguingly, many volunteers refused to believe that these experiences were hallucinations or dreams, as they seemed too real. Strassman reported being initially quite baffled by and unprepared for the frequency of these entity experiences among his volunteers. In his book he even entertains the idea that these entities are genuine inhabitants of some sort of normally invisible alternative reality, perhaps of a parallel universe.

www.psychologytoday.com...
www.realitysandwich.com...
What do you make of this?

The fact remains that over the years highly credible people who have either investigated or been privy to "exceptional experiences" involving objects that are deemed not to be hallucinations, surely when you have more that one witness or multiple witnesses observing the same stimuli then hallucinations are ruled out of the equation.

agreed but Human interactions are complex and people can effect what others perceive or even recall. www.nybooks.com...
I'm not dismissing anything but we should be aware of the full range of human perception, it's limitations and how it can be influenced. Once we understand the full range of human misperception, than we can entertain what is and what is not possible.

There is cases of radar hits,ground observations by independent witnesses and from the pilot involved too, these are the cases and the nature of the data they contain that should be of primary importance and perception when hallucinations are cited as the major factor or that they are in a higher percentage of reports than multiple witness and radar confirmation cases.

I still find it bizarre that the hallucinating and radar "spoofing" explanations are deemed more important than these containing radar hits,ground observations by independent witnesses and from the pilot involved too.

There has i feel been too much focus and attention on not only radar "spoofing" cases being cleverly cited to debunk ALL UFO cases involving radar,multiple witnesses and pilot testimonies.

That there are unknowns that have entered and left restricted air spaces of various nations is apparent by the sheer number of cases that contain credible witnesses and investigators is than not in its self surely not only a cause for possibility of some out of that percentage having ET origins but also provocative and a very serious statistic.

You do make some very valid and good points. I contend that we just don't know enough about human perceptions.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Glad you appreciated it I was hoping someone would.

UFO are definately aliens. They constantly check earth because to them earth is like a museum and you will see why in my 100% true theory that i am writing.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Thank you for taking the time in replying and it is appreciated, lets hope we all can get to the bottom of this intriguing and historical enigma that is the UFO situation.

Not a problem. I am absolutely sure that I have figured the mystery of the aliens. Tune into my future threads

reply to post by TheOneWhoKnowsTooMuch


Hey, tell us what you know, now.

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT

The fact remains that over the years highly credible people who have either investigated or been privy to "exceptional experiences" involving objects that are deemed not to be hallucinations, surely when you have more that one witness or multiple witnesses observing the same stimuli then hallucinations are ruled out of the equation.

The true fact is that after 6,000 years of what we would call modern humans with communications skills we have not progressed one inch past the "witness" stage of this whole phenomena.

There is cases of radar hits,ground observations by independent witnesses and from the pilot involved too, these are the cases and the nature of the data they contain that should be of primary importance and perception when hallucinations are cited as the major factor or that they are in a higher percentage of reports than multiple witness and radar confirmation cases.

The point here is we can all mostly agree that hallucinations can only account for a small percentage, but how did we get to the point that they are aliens? Or even organic in nature, much less intelligent?

There has i feel been too much focus and attention on not only radar "spoofing" cases being cleverly cited to debunk ALL UFO cases involving radar,multiple witnesses and pilot testimonies.


That there are unknowns that have entered and left restricted air spaces of various nations is apparent by the sheer number of cases that contain credible witnesses and investigators is than not in its self surely not only a cause for possibility of some out of that percentage having ET origins but also provocative and a very serious statistic.

It is kind of interesting that planet earth has evolved in the last 10 years into a world wide camera, linked world wide with instant communications, would wide systems of detection that makes radar of just a few decades ago seem like something out of a cracker box. With ALL this we are not seeing an increase in detectable activity, and if anything a rather large decrease. Could a big part of this be due to better equipment that doesn't have ghost signals etc caused by earthly sources. Could it be that we are so well connected that the days of isolated instance are less and less and not because of less UFOs but just harder for people to suggest they had a close encounter of some kind.

I do think the vast majority of all this has been created by social media, we can even look at the progression of UFO pictures from late 1800s up to today and we see a systemic increase in complexity as society built this social phenomena. We started with simple flying disks and today we have complex space ships. Wouldn't one think that a picture from late 1800s would show complex space ships too if they were real? Since pictures and witness reports all started as crude and simple for a very long time the only conclusion I can see is it took a long time for our imagination to evolve in the creation of it all.

Some interesting older sightings, the 50's and '77 which was a super hot year for sightings.

www.alien-ufos.com...

Flt Lt Wood’s story was supported by Cpl Torrington and Sgt Graham who were on duty at a picket post outside Boulmer’s underground operations room. They said the westerly UFO moved “and changed shape to become body shaped with projections like arms and legs.” All were described as “reliable and sober” in a MoD report. The descriptions, and more significantly, the fact these UFOs were visible for one hour forty minutes make me suspect they may have been bright stars or planets. But in his report Flt Lt Wood says that shortly after disappearing visually, two unidentified contacts were detected on the base radars at a range of between 20 and 30 miles out to sea. These slowly moved northeast as they climbed, “then parted, one climbing to 9,000 feet estimated and moving east, the other holding 5-6,000 ft.”

www.alien-ufos.com...

Very interesting UFO incident from 1952 where three disc shaped objects were plotted on ground radar and witnessed by two RAF pilots who saw them fly over the cockpit of their aircraft - the pilots are interviewed below and describe the objects in full detail - they also state that upon landing they were immediately confined in separate cabins and told to speak to noone until they were thoroughly debriefed by an unknown plain clothes officer.

Originally posted by TheOneWhoKnowsTooMuch
UFO are definately aliens. They constantly check earth because to them earth is like a museum and you will see why in my 100% true theory that i am writing.

So you must be an alien for you to boast a "100% true theory" when you show us your double heart I'll be on your side of that 100%.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I would go along with the investigations carried out by Dr James E McDonald and his conclusions, as yet there has been no proof that ET intelligences do NOT exist and poses the technology so advanced it is very hard to perceive it at our present scientific understandings.The ET hypothesis is a valid and credible one until proven other wise.

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

Thank you for taking the time in replying and it is appreciated, lets hope we all can get to the bottom of this intriguing and historical enigma that is the UFO situation.

You are welcome. I just had a very good discussion with my psychologist/ex wife. its amazing how little she knew about all this

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
Some interesting older sightings, the 50's and '77 which was a super hot year for sightings.

www.alien-ufos.com...

Flt Lt Wood’s story was supported by Cpl Torrington and Sgt Graham who were on duty at a picket post outside Boulmer’s underground operations room. They said the westerly UFO moved “and changed shape to become body shaped with projections like arms and legs.” All were described as “reliable and sober” in a MoD report. The descriptions, and more significantly, the fact these UFOs were visible for one hour forty minutes make me suspect they may have been bright stars or planets. But in his report Flt Lt Wood says that shortly after disappearing visually, two unidentified contacts were detected on the base radars at a range of between 20 and 30 miles out to sea. These slowly moved northeast as they climbed, “then parted, one climbing to 9,000 feet estimated and moving east, the other holding 5-6,000 ft.”

www.alien-ufos.com...

Very interesting UFO incident from 1952 where three disc shaped objects were plotted on ground radar and witnessed by two RAF pilots who saw them fly over the cockpit of their aircraft - the pilots are interviewed below and describe the objects in full detail - they also state that upon landing they were immediately confined in separate cabins and told to speak to noone until they were thoroughly debriefed by an unknown plain clothes officer.

edit on 15-6-2013 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

I think I exhausted my hallucnogenic fungus explanations. Let me see what I can pull out of my butt on these...

I don't think any Alien race would need thousands of years+ millions of landings to get in touch with another race. There is something going on that we cannot comprehend.

Its highly unlikely these things are nuts and bolts machines with pilots. There are some encounters where the witnesses describe crafts with no visible openings but beings coming and going out of thin air.

Originally posted by radkrish
I don't think any Alien race would need thousands of years+ millions of landings to get in touch with another race. There is something going on that we cannot comprehend.

Its highly unlikely these things are nuts and bolts machines with pilots.

There are some encounters where the witnesses describe crafts with no visible openings but beings coming and going out of thin air.

I had a dream like that the other night...hey, wait a second.

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT

I would go along with the investigations carried out by Dr James E McDonald and his conclusions, as yet there has been no proof that ET intelligences do NOT exist and poses the technology so advanced it is very hard to perceive it at our present scientific understandings.The ET hypothesis is a valid and credible one until proven other wise.

How does one show proof of something that doesn't exists? I believe that is an logical fallacy...

I say that 600 pounds purple flying hippos exists and they do until you can prove that they don't... hehe