Feeling negative? Look at the opposite side...

reply to post by jcutler12888

No worries. I agree with you but...

Don't grumble,
Give a whistle.
And this'll...


That rhyme has to make you smile.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

No worries. I agree with you but...

Don't grumble,
Give a whistle.
And this'll...


That rhyme has to make you smile.

LOL...before I read your post, I was crying because a stupid boy hurt my feelings...and when I read your rhyme, it made me giggle a little and I stopped crying. So thank you for making me smile AND making stop crying.

Originally posted by Damsel

Name one situation where suffering is inevitable.

Um.. what about...
Being forced into a big gas chamber with hundreds of other people, and your small children, being enclosed and having a relatively slow and painful death; while you and your children are crushed by peoples desperate flailings.

Or what about the pain of being raped by a grown man, when you are a very young child.

Oops, that's two. I'll stop there. But I could go on. Suffering is a part of life and manifestation in matter and physicality.

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by Damsel

Name one situation where suffering is inevitable.

Um.. what about...
Being forced into a big gas chamber with hundreds of other people, and your small children, being enclosed and having a relatively slow and painful death; while you and your children are crushed by peoples desperate flailings.

Or what about the pain of being raped by a grown man, when you are a very young child.

Oops, that's two. I'll stop there. But I could go on. Suffering is a part of life and manifestation in matter and physicality.

Your first example is a PERFECT example of inevitable suffering...a cruel and barbaric mass killing of you, your family, children, friends, etc...the suffering in those last moments would absolutely be inevitable.

Your second example you gave was what I was referring to (in a vague sort of way) when I gave my example. I am a survivor of childhood abuse and spousal abuse, I'm 24 and I can still barely bring myself to talk about child abuse in specific terms with certain words that just make me think of things that make me sick and that I wish I could forget. But you're 100% correct...the pain and suffering caused by a grown man raping a very young child is unfathomable to most people, not to mention if it happens on a regular basis and the child has no way to make it stop or cope in any way or get help. The resulting physical, psychological, and emotional pain is absolutely unbearable and the resulting suffering and trauma are unimaginably immense and completely inevitable.

reply to post by jcutler12888


Well, I used the example because it happened to me too, at the age of 5.

However. I DO recognize what people try to refer to in these sorts of "optimistic" sorts of value systems.
There are ways to suffer less, in terms of time. This WAS in the past, it is not now, and though one could suffer still, you could also stop suffering. -I am keeping in mind the subconscious physical memories which are not so easy to erase).

There is also the fact that, if your abuse was regular and repeated (whether it was sexual or non-sexual physical violence) you usually develop coping skills, like disassociation, in which the actual suffering IS avoided, in a sense!
That can be a problem if you cannot get it under control, and continue to fall into disassociation at the drop of a hat for the rest of your life. But if you learn to master it and learn to produce it's opposite as well (arousal, fight or flight responses) and choose either at will , then it can be very useful!

This is one of the skills that many religious practices try to communicate, and one of the ways that a terrible experience like childhood abuse can be considered, in the long run, as a growing, valuable and educative experience.

That doesn't really mean that suffering doesn't happen though, or that it is necessarily optional... or at least I wouldn't put it that way in words. I would instead say that even suffering can have a value in the big picture.

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

That doesn't really mean that suffering doesn't happen though, or that it is necessarily optional... or at least I wouldn't put it that way in words. I would instead say that even suffering can have a value in the big picture.

I would say that too.

I guess the problem is not the existence of suffering, its useless suffering.

But we can always make good use of it, getting wiser, stronger, more compassionate, more sensible, etc etc
Thats the way!

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

Well, I used the example because it happened to me too, at the age of 5.

However. I DO recognize what people try to refer to in these sorts of "optimistic" sorts of value systems.
There are ways to suffer less, in terms of time. This WAS in the past, it is not now, and though one could suffer still, you could also stop suffering. -I am keeping in mind the subconscious physical memories which are not so easy to erase).

There is also the fact that, if your abuse was regular and repeated (whether it was sexual or non-sexual physical violence) you usually develop coping skills, like disassociation, in which the actual suffering IS avoided, in a sense!
That can be a problem if you cannot get it under control, and continue to fall into disassociation at the drop of a hat for the rest of your life. But if you learn to master it and learn to produce it's opposite as well (arousal, fight or flight responses) and choose either at will , then it can be very useful!

This is one of the skills that many religious practices try to communicate, and one of the ways that a terrible experience like childhood abuse can be considered, in the long run, as a growing, valuable and educative experience.

That doesn't really mean that suffering doesn't happen though, or that it is necessarily optional... or at least I wouldn't put it that way in words. I would instead say that even suffering can have a value in the big picture.

I agree completely. When I said that the suffering caused by that situation is inevitable, I meant that it is inevitable at the time of the abuse and I, like you, believe that we can choose to grow beyond the pain and no longer suffer once removed from the situation and given time to heal. I also agree that even the most painful of situations and the deepest of sufferings can contribute to our personal growth by strengthening us.