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Yahweh...Enki in disguise?

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posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


And that would mimic the fact that Enki/ Ea rebelled against Enlil/ Marduk who had proclaimed himself the king of gods/ deities or Most High.

To me it makes sense when viewed this way that in the OT Yahweh = Enlil the king of gods (no other before me) and Enki = serpent who enlightened man and rebelled against Enlil or Yahweh.

I will admit that I do enjoy a good puzzle
as well as the various input and research from fellow members




posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


Mods can you please delete this post my phone is acting up lol.

So much for smart phones
edit on 12-6-2013 by IntrinsicMotivation because: Double post needs deleted please



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 11:47 AM
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we weren't enlightened, we just noticed each other's nakedness for the first time. before that, naked didn't mean anything because we weren't sexual. the whole "eyes opened" thing is referring to them seeing each other as sexy for the first time. this explains why there was such a stigma put on nudity and sex by various abrahamic religions. enlil, not a fan of humans in the first place, definitely didn't want to encourage people to be thinking about procreation. .
edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 11:48 AM
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Enlil...NOT Enki.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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Also there is Zeus who shares some of the same qualities as Enlil/ Marduk

Both are gods of the storm, both would wage a war against a parental figure Chronos and Tiamat in this instance, and both would go on to claim the title of king of the gods.

And there is an inscription on a rock in Greece or that general area that list Zeus as the one and only god (pulled that from the history channel series "clash of the gods-Zeus").



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by IntrinsicMotivation
Also there is Zeus who shares some of the same qualities as Enlil/ Marduk

Both are gods of the storm, both would wage a war against a parental figure Chronos and Tiamat in this instance, and both would go on to claim the title of king of the gods.

And there is an inscription on a rock in Greece or that general area that list Zeus as the one and only god (pulled that from the history channel series "clash of the gods-Zeus").


marduk didn't wage the war against tiamat. that was enki. i mentioned this earlier.
tiamat was part of the abzu. it didn't actually have its own name until marduk's priests decided to give marduk credit for enki, enlil and anu's ante-diluvian activities. before the flood, tiamat was just called abzu. and the abzu was a thing not a deity.

perhaps they decided to give it a different name since that part of it still functioned even if the gate was locked.
edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by IAMTAT
 


Just realized your member name can be rearranged to spell Tiamat



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Can you please provide some literature to back this up so I might read over it?

If you go back a few pages you will see that I have provided a chart as well as definitions of these gods from my college text book "introduction to mythology" and it is clearly showing that it was Enlil/ Marduk that battled with Tiamat and that Enlil/ Marduk was the Son of Ea/ Enki and that lined up with the passage I pulled from "the wars of gods and men."

Thanks in advance for your reply to my request


Ps. I listed the various names and regions of these gods in a post a few pages back as they appeared in the back of my textbook.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by IntrinsicMotivation
reply to post by undo
 


Can you please provide some literature to back this up so I might read over it?

If you go back a few pages you will see that I have provided a chart as well as definitions of these gods from my college text book "introduction to mythology" and it is clearly showing that it was Enlil/ Marduk that battled with Tiamat and that Enlil/ Marduk was the Son of Ea/ Enki and that lined up with the passage I pulled from "the wars of gods and men."

Thanks in advance for your reply to my request


Ps. I listed the various names and regions of these gods in a post a few pages back as they appeared in the back of my textbook.


it's easy. tiamat and apsu (abzu) are found together for the first time in the babylonian text, enuma elish. whereas older texts just have abzu no tiamat, and enki controls it. he also closes it/locks it (puts abzu/apsu to sleep/kills him) at the babel fiasco. i'll go find it. i think it's in the akkadian text, ENMERKAR AND THE LORD OF ARRATA. enmerkar is nimrod.


edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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addendum to my post above, while i'm thinking about it:

there's an egyptian text called THE LEGEND OF THE DESTRUCTION OF MANKIND, where Ra enlists the aid of Hathor to kill the people.(there's a whole bunch of symbollism in this story, but it is the flood narrative, from the egyptian cultural perspective). She kills so many people, Ra is afraid there will be no one left to worship him, so they come up with a way to put Hathor to sleep, get her drunk on a special concoction. In the babylonian version, the ENUMA ELISH, Enki creates a special spell to put Apsu (abzu) to sleep. Both of these are from different time frames and refer to different events -- one is the flood, the other is the burial of the Babel abzu gate but both are about the same device. The EPIC OF GILGAMESH calls it the flood weapon.


edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Thanks for the reply Undo


I hope you can find the info you are speaking of for review.


As soon as I can get back to my laptop and textbooks and other hard copy (book) sources I will try and cross reference what you are talking about and see if I can find any connections.

But for now, I am still under the impression that Enlil/ Marduk/ Bal is the one who did battle with Tiamat.

Once again to the op, I have always enjoyed reading on this subject and I would rather contribute to this thread that already has a lot of info in it instead of creating an Enlil is Yahweh type of thread. Thank you again.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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The original name for yahweh was el shaddai

One Midrashic interpretation of the meaning is as an acronym standing for "Guardian of the Doors of Israel" (Hebrew: שׁוֹמֶר דְלָתוֹת יִשְׂרָאֶל). This acronym, which is commonly found as carvings or writings on the mezuzah, which is placed on the doorposts of Jewish homes and other dwellings.

There were two guardians of the gateway to the underworld/abzu or horizon. There names are numerous such as castor and pollux, Christ and lucifer .They are either twins, half brothers or two faced such as janos. Which brother thats the question.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


In that same textbook I am referencing also has a chapter dedicated to the Epic of Gilgamesh. I will read back through it when I get home and look for reference of this flood weapon.

But if I recall correctly, there is no mention of Enki or any other name derivatives of him in the story. I do think Enlil is mentioned though (if I am wrong about that I will state so as soon as I get home to the material).

Enkidu is the closest name to Enki, but these are distinctly 2 different characters.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 01:07 PM
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Tiamat also has been claimed to be cognate with Northwest Semitic tehom (תהום) (the deeps, abyss), in the Book of Genesis 1:2.[8]

en.wikipedia.org...

abyss=abzu so, tiamat = abzu.

marduk's story, enuma elish, separates them into 2 parts - and makes them into 2 deities from which the gods are born. this is the gate of the gods, not 2 deities. since then assyriologists have tried to say it was sweet and salt water. that's not it either.

the first assyriologist to officially decipher sumerian cuneiform, samuel noah kramer, discusses the arrival of enki's e.abzu on this planet. he says it rose up from the abyss and floated over the water like a lofty mountain. now put that in the tehom context. he floats over the abyss. he floats over the deep. i had the hardest time figuring that out. what happened is, the gate in question was in the water. the abyss is in the abyss, if you get my meaning. its easier to say, the abzu gate is in the abyss. or just the abzu is in the ocean. there's more than one abzu, too.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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this is from a sumerian text, ENKI AND THE WORLD ORDER. it's describing the e.abzu of enki.
it makes very little sense if read fron the perspective that the thing is just sitting on the bottom of the ocean or in some underground chamber lake, particularly since it says its emplacement is by the constellation THE FIELD, which is the great square of pegasus in the sky. the upper shrine is by the chariot constellation. it has a terrifying sea (that's abyss). this is referring to an abzu gate and the e.abzu building the gate is in. (there's different sizes. some are people sized. some are big enough to fit an aircraft carrier thru. the really big ones are on the ocean floor. the smaller ones are in buildings or moving vehicles such as the submersible, flying, floating, roaring, glowing, advice giving, E.Abzu) and it's gate connection to some place in the pegasus and chariot constellations. anyway, here it is:

The lord established a shrine, a holy shrine, whose interior is elaborately constructed. He established a shrine in the sea, a holy shrine, whose interior is elaborately constructed. The shrine, whose interior is a tangled thread, is beyond understanding. The shrine's emplacement is situated by the constellation the Field, the holy upper shrine's emplacement faces towards the Chariot constellation. Its terrifying sea is a rising wave, its splendour is fearsome. The Anuna gods dare not approach it. …… to refresh their hearts, the palace rejoices. The Anuna stand by with prayers and supplications. They set up a great altar for Enki in the E-engura, for the lord ……. The great prince ……. …… the pelican of the sea.
edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Tell me if you think I'm way off in my thinking, but I always felt like these gods/fallen angels/Satan were living on the earth when God decided to form it and divide it. They were living in a void with darkness and water before God brought in light and divided the light from the darkness, as well as the water from the water.

Genesis 1:1-12

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.


edit on 12-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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deetermined

the bible says very little about pre-adamic times. my personal view at this point is, that the verse that describes the tehom and the earth being tohu, is not talking about when it was actually created, but rather, a re-terraforming of it following a great cataclysm (the ice age, which also contained a great flood that is partially described as noah's flood in genesis (there's 2 floods being described in genesis as noah's flood. only one of them was big enough (global) to require such a huge database of animals and plants. the other one, was the black sea flood and although it was bad, it was not global and only required noah to save 14 clean animals, 4 unclean animals and 14 birds. you'll notice how it contradicts itself and that's because it's describing 2 different floods). and when it refers to floating over the face of the deep, it's the global flood waters that draw down to reveal dry land that was already there.

my view is that when the waters drew down, the anunnaki set about re-terraforming the earth and rebuilding the mining infrastructure. the first verse, however, is about the actual creation of the universe. and that's all it really says about what happens before the advent of the first adam race.



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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addendum to my post above

that's listed as 7 clean animals in pairs, male and female, 7 fowls in pairs, male and female, and 2 unclean animals in pairs, for a grand total of (14+14+4) 32 animals.
edit on 12-6-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by undo
 


Tell me if you think I'm way off in my thinking, but I always felt like these gods/fallen angels/Satan were living on the earth when God decided to form it and divide it. They were living in a void with darkness and water before God brought in light and divided the light from the darkness, as well as the water from heaven from the water that was already here.

Genesis 1:1-12

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.


Once again this sounds like Marduk/ Enlil.

"Introduction to Mythology - Contemporary Approaches to Classical and World Myths 3rd ed. by Thury and Devinney"

Page 63
Rituals Reflected In The Epic
Historians believe that Enuma Elish was meant to be presented orally at ceremonies dedicated to Marduk. It was recited by the high priest during the New Year ritual each Nisun (April) in Babylon, and parts may have been acted out. The recitation served as a kind of incantation for controlling the flooding of the city resulting from the spring rising of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The ritual represented this inundation as an annual battle between Marduk and watery chaos (Tiamat).

Water was a central component of religion and cosmology, as it represented survival for this ancient civilization. Moderate spring flooding irrigated the life-giving crops, but too much caused destruction. Thus the religious ritual praises the gods for providing sustenance while pleading for protection. The cosmology also reflects the importance of water: the mingling of the fresh and salt water is the first act of creation. The homeland of the storytellers lay between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and extended along the southern coast of the Arabian Gulf to present-day Bahrain (see map on p. 62). In this region, people could easily observe the confluence of fresh and salt water where these rivers meet the gulf. In addition, they would observe that the shifting shoreline of the sea (represented by Tiamat), when it was out of control, could undermine the groundwater, polluting wells and devastating agriculture in the affected region.

I believe that this explains the aetiological insights of this myth.

Here is a timeline of Ancient Mesopotamia on Page 63 of the textbook provided from the library of the University of Chicago. See link at the bottom of the picture.

Here is a comparison chart of 3 flood stories.

Pic continued
Left column is from Gilgamesh. Center column Genesis. Right column Ovid’s Metamorphoses


Links to full size if not readable.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 12-6-2013 by IntrinsicMotivation because: added links to full size pictures



posted on Jun, 12 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Regarding the flood story...


According to most exegetes, the Genesis narrative is composed of two different stories (the Jahwist (YHWH) source and the Priestly (Elohim) source) that were interwoven into the final canonical form of Genesis 6-9.


en.wikipedia.org...

This appears to be the exact same reason why there are differences in the story of how different languages came to be and the Tower of Babel in Genesis 10 vs. Genesis 11. And I would imagine, that's also the reason why people claim that there are differences in Creation from Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2.



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